E30 Zone

hi all,
calling all non-council sound installs even council installs will be good...

needs ideas

mostly for sound quality installs.

cheers
Anton

I have just bought and fitted a Becker Mexico Pro 7937


http://caraudiosecurity.com/shop/produc ... /4456.html

Will progress onto speakers etc when funds allow

wow i really like that the red back lit must look nice with all the other gages.

Its good but a bit bright, I need to read the manual and see if I can turn it down a little.

I liked it because its really subtle and great sound

mines no where near done, i just ghetto installed it in the other day, and still getting the fiberglass builds for midrange to do, running az 3 way active front end. when its done ill show you some pics.

Non council = no door builds !

i'd post pic's of my install but to be honest u'd not be able to see anything, In my cab i fitted mids and tweeters up front in the standard place's and the rears are a 4way comp setup.

The amps are bolted onto the back of the seat frame in the boot and the sub box is sloted under the rear deck.

The stealth look was due to the less noticed the less chance of someone trying do the roof and nick anything

lol no door builds! guess im just one god damn council mofo.

along with neal welcome back mate

The amps are bolted onto the back of the seat frame in the boot and the sub box is sloted under the rear deck.

where exactly did you put the sub, cos i've just been given a new sub that i wanna put in? Also, I am aware of the cab having the steel sheet between the rear seats and the boot so how does your sound?

NH325CAB wrote: where exactly did you put the sub, cos i've just been given a new sub that i wanna put in? Also, I am aware of the cab having the steel sheet between the rear seats and the boot so how does your sound?

Are you coming to the POD this weekend???

was gonna but have a wedding to go to now - severley gutted!?!

NH325CAB wrote:was gonna but have a wedding to go to now - severley gutted!?!

gutted mate was gonna say you could of had a listen and look etc,
The amps are bolted to the metal frame and the sub is a sealed bow poiting towards rhe back of the car ie the number plate, It does sound good and very clear I am running a twin voicecoil 12inch though

Excellent.... clarity was my main concern as i was worried that it might be muffled and be confined to the overly protected boot area.

I am well gutted re weekend as there were lots of zoners i wanted to finally meet!

i ran 2x 12in ch subs in my cab and hit 131 db it was loud but you lose so much sound out of the roof

I have 2 12in subs in the boot of mine, and gives the right amount without distrorting!

Sounds nice!

Just get a port from the boot into the car. Mine dont count cause it's a show car 1st and practicality 2nd, but with so many speaker it rocks and it's not all bass either cause there are about 10 mid speakers and 8 twitters

Pete as for the no door builds, i've seen them in the doors of your caravan, so what does that make you then?

Just get a port from the boot into the car.

How? Bore through the steel and then through the rear leathers? I have the "recaro" style leather rears so i guess it could go through the centre bolster, if thats what you mean?

I'd be curious booty u at the POD this weekend car i have a look??

Yep bore through the back plate and make or buy a port. This is my mates E36. I didnt want to do mine like him cause i dont want my interior looking like his, but you get the picture.

Cliff no i wasnt at the pod and i wouldnt have brought the Rieger anyway. Still work in progress

My system - this is all my own work. Click the piccys for bigger versions

I know its on E30, but all the same theory's methods can be applied

Dynaudio System 340
Image Dynamics IDMAX12 (Installed IB in the Ski hatch)
Arc Audio 2500CXL Limited Edition
DLS A6
Alpine CDA-7969/Alpine H701 Processor/Alpine CHA-S624 Changer

It's an SQ install with a pretty solid low end. The Max 12 is showing the A6 a nominal load of 2Ohm so upto 800 odd RMS available. I plan on either adding a second one or reconing it to a dual 2 so I can show the A6 a 1 ohm load in order to get up 1.2kw out of it. The Dynaudios are seeing up to 270RMS off the Arc Audio amp. Both the changer and the headunit are connected via optical leads to the H701.









Volt meter in place


Floor to fit amps


Upside down Arc amp - spare in underneath


Lots-o-dynamat:




Kick builds




Custom facia for headunit:




Much nicer now:





More kick building:


Bits on the back that were used to fix wood to the cars plastic bit


Little bit of fiber fill to start building the shape


More fiber fill and filler sanded so its nice and smooth


Smoothed edges from the back

Leatherette covering






Stage 2




H701 installed






Top Alpine CD changer and below two Dynaudio X360 crossovers.

Finally some pics of how it looks today - I plan on wiring up the H701 at some point and installing my midbasses on the door metal and cut a hole in the back so they can breath. I've got a second IDMAX 12 I plan to install at some point.

Wow. Looks like a lot of hard work there mate and it looks really clean as well. Well done that man. I have the utmost pespect for anyman who spends that much time and effort to do their own thing

bootyman wrote:Wow. Looks like a lot of hard work there mate and it looks really clean as well. Well done that man. I have the utmost pespect for anyman who spends that much time and effort to do their own thing

Thanks Yeah theres a lot months work in there and a lot more tweaking!

Booty, that looks sweet as!

If i have one of those Kenwood canon subs (Ksc -wa801 to be exact) can the existing port simply be extended to go through the rear bolster or is the length of the port important?

The pic is here:

http://onbedo.com/forCAR/STEPWGN/custom ... _007_s.jpg

Speaker at the end and port on top....

Any ideas?

The port isn't coming from the speakers in the picture i put up. It's just a port in the rear plate to allow sound into the car. It's especially important on a convertible cause all the sound just escapes with the roof down, so unless you goo all out like i have, you system will sound crap unless you have the roof on all the time. Even then, the plate is so thik, you will loose a lot of sound

bootyman wrote:The port isn't coming from the speakers in the picture i put up. It's just a port in the rear plate to allow sound into the car. It's especially important on a convertible cause all the sound just escapes with the roof down, so unless you goo all out like i have, you system will sound crap unless you have the roof on all the time. Even then, the plate is so thik, you will loose a lot of sound

IMO this is why I think infinite baffle installs work so well in saloons, coupes & convertibles. With the speaker firing directly into the cabin using the back seats, or rear shelf as a baffle you don't have a problem with getting sound in. This sort of install can work in hatch backs and estates as well so your not limited!

There only two issues that you need to address when doing an IB install:

1) The speaker is suitable for IB/Free air

2) Power handling will be reduce, especially at really low frequency's so you need to be careful with it.

On the plus side low end extension will be superb! If you can find an Image Dynamics IDMAX 10 or 12, or an Arc Audio flat line IMO those are the ultimate subs for IB installation. I don't think there is a UK distributor at the moment though.

I think Rainbow do one too as do JL audio (atleast they did I think!)

hi there.

infinite isnt ideal.

thing is, you'll get much better sound from a well designed 10inch in a properly designed enclosure than you would out of bigger in an improperly designed enclosure.

a good 10incher requires between 0.8 --> 1cu'ft of enclosure, thats about 28litres!!
a 12incher is closer to 40 litres.

2 x 12inch woofers and you'll have to make an enclosure almost the full size of the boot!!

metal doesnt sound good at all!! when last have you heard a set of MISSION or CELESTION home audio speakers made out of 2/3mm metal?

never. it sounds shite.

wood is the way to go!

also the box shoudlnt be exactly square, if you can manage that there arent parallel surfaces, like a wedge type shape this would be ultimate. the box should also be deeper than it is "long".

anything from a 10inch and up.. even longthrow 8inch drivers, use nothing less than 18mm mdf!!!

a good 10inch subwoofer enclosure requires about 50screws, wood-glue, and silicon caulking at the seams inside.

when mounting the woofer, make up a silicone gasket too regardless of what gasket the manufacturer gives you.
fill the box 50% with dacron(pillow stuffing)

and your in business.

i got 125db out of 1 single 8inch.

my 10inch SQ sub does closer to 130db.

cheers
anton

I agree with you to a point, but it is entirely dependant on the driver.

Yes a sub designed to perform well in a sealed box or ported box may not work well IB. A sub design from the ground up to perform well IB will work very well like that. Trust me once you hear an IDMAX IB you would want to put it into a sealed box again It has a much flatter response IB than both sealed and ported, it will also drop lower. SQ wise it does have an edge.

I've run it both a sealed box and IB and to my ears, IB works much better

Anyways I'm just throwing it in as an idea as I'm an IB convert - has to be the right driver though and as with all these things its not everyone's cup of tea (lots of people say that about my TL boxes at home too ;) )

EDIT:

As for box sizes, yes your 100% right you need a correctly designed box to match the sub T&S parameters

hi there..

hmm.. ok, what about: make ur boot a wooded boot, then do the whole infinite baffle thing.

i'd do it then... but in generally personally, i dont like the sound metal gives...

so im with you all the way as far as infinite baffle is concerned, as long as wood is involved, and not flexy vehicle sheet metal.

imho, you can throw sound deadening etc at the boot till the cows come home, it still wont sound like it should if the boot gets used as an enclosure, because ultimately thats what youre doing? its not an enclosure, enclosure, but the driver is mounted on the backboard right, so whats behind the backboard? the boot, is the boot open or closed, closed..
so its like an oversized enclosure really, as long as the acoustical properties of the boot are right then im for it.

ive been competing since 2000 in iasca sound quality competitions, scored 350.5 at last years finals here in south africa, good enough for a 3rd place... hope i can do same or better in my e30 when i eventuall get to it.


cheers
Anton

anton wrote:hi there..

hmm.. ok, what about: make ur boot a wooded boot, then do the whole infinite baffle thing.

i'd do it then... but in generally personally, i dont like the sound metal gives...

so im with you all the way as far as infinite baffle is concerned, as long as wood is involved, and not flexy vehicle sheet metal.

imho, you can throw sound deadening etc at the boot till the cows come home, it still wont sound like it should if the boot gets used as an enclosure, because ultimately thats what youre doing? its not an enclosure, enclosure, but the driver is mounted on the backboard right, so whats behind the backboard? the boot, is the boot open or closed, closed..
so its like an oversized enclosure really, as long as the acoustical properties of the boot are right then im for it.

ive been competing since 2000 in iasca sound quality competitions, scored 350.5 at last years finals here in south africa, good enough for a 3rd place... hope i can do same or better in my e30 when i eventuall get to it.


cheers
Anton

Cool It works fine in my car if the boot is open or closed. It will bottom out more easily due to the lack of any back pressure at all with the boot open IIRC.

The sub is mounted to a sheet of 18mm birch ply (doubled around the area where the sub is mounted. The wood is bolted to the rear seat solidly and its wedged in when the seats are up (my seats still fold down with the 60/40 (ish) split)

I cant say I have any problems with metal sound from the back. The dynamat has done a good job of deadening the panels. My boot lid makes a bit of noise out side the but that's not an issue with the coupe, would be with a vert though I guess.

EDIT: here's the response curve of the driver I'm using: http://www.imagedynamicsusa.com/leap/ID ... %20V.3.jpg

anton, just to let you know the rookie 1001 champion here in the UK runs a Idmax in a saloon, using infinite baffle ;)

just make sure u use a bloody good baffle


as with regards to two twelves taking up the whole boot,,, im sure youve heard of triple chamber boxes,,, these can make a seemingly large box into a rather small design, and contain the positives of both sealed and ported enclosures.

dont forget dude, i know where your coming from with the whole SQ perspective, but it takes few to notice these differences, most people wont notice the difference between the bass response of a wedgeshape box and a standard parralel box. little things which make SQ enthusiasts happy, most people arnt tuned to hear. if you know waht i mean.

so things that may sound shit in a SQ heads ears, may sound perfectly fine to an average joe blogs

out of interest whats it like to compete in south africa, one of the reasons im not competing is due to the cost and the face im in a 16 year old car... they are overly strict as to the clenliness and condition of the car, even in rookie level, and 50Ԛ£ peryear, membership plus 12Ԛ£ rule book, plus 6Ԛ£ test cd, etc etc,,, costs just add up here unfortunatly, and its not so wide spread as to have several events all over the country, most of the events are quite far off. again petrol money to compete etc... but as far as im concerned, as many others, get a system to your liking and if your happy, then who cares dont need to impress some judge to tell me my system sounds good/bad. i can judge that myself. obviously competition aspect is nice though. also silly things such as gain 3 points for being a member, and 3 points for displaying a sticker,,, also 3 points for clean car? i mean come on, thats nothing to do with the sound system!

howsit,
same here, same exact same, spl wise we are currently very much ontop...
with our best oak doing a 177db recently, 3 x 15's.

i agree 100% with what u are saying above... the age of your car doesnt matter.!

my pickup as such isnt much to speak of, its what we call a mazda rustler, they dont make em anymore.

the front end and the cab is essentially a 1988 mazda 323. picture a mazda 323 pickup, if u email me at
anton@compunique.co.za i can send u pics and install pics.

theres generally only 1 competition in cape town where i live per year, i always enter this.
last year i entered in cape town, got 1st and 2nd overall ultra sqi, 293points.

instantly ripped up vehicle and rebuilt. travelled 3000km (about 1400miles) entered finals in durban and managed a 350.5 for 3rd place, and yeah there were some really awesome vehicles. my vehicle was the plain one out of the lot. its the sound that stood out. the american judge(chris orblom) seemed pretty impressed with the sound, got 46/50 for imaging!! was happy..

the system then was:
jl audio e4300 amp
clarion 835mp deck
jl audio 10w0 subwoofer

my new system is:
jl audio 300/4 amp
nakamichi cd-700 (yeah got one from the states, AWESOME DECK, BEST SQ BY FAR)
decware 10" sub - paper pulp cone, 18" woofer motor suspension, upto 273watt rms.
kef coda 7 speakers & crossovers

thats for the pickup.

my e30 will be:
jl audio e4300
jl audio 10w1v2 sub
nakamichi cd-400 deck
kef coda 7 speakers & crossovers

The sound produced can only be described as the following:

A decent NAD amplifier with an ARCAM ALPHA cd player with high end floor-standers...

more or less in that league i reckon.. obviously not as accurate and articulare, but as close as one can get in a car.

The simplistic approach with the vehicle has always worked the best for me, i do tend to not always get as many points for installation like some of the guys, electrical always full points, then i usually try and "steal" some extra points with way out presentation and nifty gadgets and features. im always trying to do something others havent thought of...

over the years ive gained more and more experience, and the higher the level my systems go to the more my ears get trained the shitter the avg budget sound, sounds to me. once you have been spoilt by proper audiophile sound theres no turning back.

alas, my pickup, im respraying it at the moment, mostly workin on it weekends, but doign a THOROUGH job.
so its been like 3 months since ive had sound. sad!

gotta run again,
cheers
Anton

ps: ive just bought a house(first time, been renting for a few years) so i dunno, the iasca competing thing might have to take a back seat and i'll work with the goodies i've got. competing is expensive period.the finals, the trip,petrol hotel etc etc cost me equivalent of about 750 - 850 pounds last year. a BACK-BREAKER.

anton wrote:ps: ive just bought a house(first time, been renting for a few years) so i dunno, the iasca competing thing might have to take a back seat and i'll work with the goodies i've got. competing is expensive period.the finals, the trip,petrol hotel etc etc cost me equivalent of about 750 - 850 pounds last year. a BACK-BREAKER.

I find myself in the same boat as of begining of the month - congrats on the house always a big step!

I never bothered competing as the way I like my sound is different to how the judges want to hear, that and my imaging sucks!

thanks man!
i'll need it... now have to shell out for things like burglar bars alarm system etcetera etcetera

well lets see.. my mortgage repayments will be like 3 times what my current rental payments are...
equates to PURCHASING probably 10 times less car goodies...

also long term. ive just got the e30 now for 3 weeks or so. so obviously running 2 vehicles will cost more..
extra vehicle and now a new house, NOTE TO SELF: START SAVING & START STOCKING UP ON PEANUT BUTTER.

a bit of a joke, as i think i'll have to ruff it up initially..

cheers
Anton

anton wrote:
the higher the level my systems go to the more my ears get trained the shitter the avg budget sound, sounds to me. once you have been spoilt by proper audiophile sound theres no turning back.

too true dude!

JazzMan wrote: I never bothered competing as the way I like my sound is different to how the judges want to hear, that and my imaging sucks!

thats what im saying, if your happy thast all that counts, nice one

all the sounds guys coming out of the woodwork i see, i thought it was just me ian and placey who were serious

dark_sounds, your on TA? I use a different username over there You might recognise me from the the project in my sig ;)