E30 Zone

hi im thinking of fitting a e34 M5 3.8 engine into my 325i sport. will it fit & what box & mounts will i use.

It fits quite nicely. Basically it's the same swap as M30, inlet plenum is the only problem.

I recommend checking www.300mm.de for motor mounts and www.e30.de / M335 for info & pictures & advice.

After a bit of searching, I found this list of typical engine weights. I'm not sure if the figures include the gearbox, but they might be of some use/interest to you.

I got it from E30.de, but the page address is: http://wp1016621.wp027.webpack.hosteuro ... f01716.htm

ideal whats the prob with the inlet plenum, so would i use a set of m30 mounts, & will it fit to my gear box or use the m5 box.

M5 box, shortened prop and gear linkages, inlet plenum hits servo, so smaller servo needed, m30 mounts from e30.de, modified to clear s38 tubular manifold, think you need to drop subframe around 10mm too, or just jack the bonnet, e28 m5 thermostat housing and e28 m30 rad + some kind of electic fan....

User 'Karan' has a build thread on here somewhere....

think ill have to buy the moter then

Jonsku wrote:inlet plenum is the only problem.

The exhaust manifold is not an easy fit on RHD cars.

If I was planning an engine conversion this is the one I would go for.

Having recently bought an M5 3.8, I can say that the motor is just epic and I came to the conclusion that my ideal car would be a stripped out E30, caged, coilovers, big brakes and an S38B38 motor singing away up front.

Unfortunately I don't have the room for the conversion now, but in the future, this is the one for me. The motor makes the M5 fly, I can't imagine how good it must be in an E30. I would imagine that uprated diff mounts would be sensible, it surely has the grunt to rip them clean apart with standard mounts?

i can supply the mounts if you need them £100 plus delivery. There m30 mounts for the later type engine and fit the engine in position 2 or 3. There very similar to de ones.

I have a thread on here with more info and pics "e30 m30 mounts with pics"

sniffmydiff wrote:ideal whats the prob with the inlet plenum, so would i use a set of m30 mounts, & will it fit to my gear box or use the m5 box.

If you need to ask these questions you are not skilled enough to do this conversion. If you are paying someone hopefully you are rich enough as you will be looking at about £7000 !

£7000 OMG

pacerpete wrote:

sniffmydiff wrote:ideal whats the prob with the inlet plenum, so would i use a set of m30 mounts, & will it fit to my gear box or use the m5 box.

If you need to ask these questions you are not skilled enough to do this conversion. If you are paying someone hopefully you are rich enough as you will be looking at about £7000 !

Pete, how the hell do you come to that conclusion?. Plenty of people on here have fitted different engines and im sure the majority have asked questions about it.Be pretty pointless having this section if questions were,nt asked or answered. Btw, im not assuming the OP is skilled enough, just seemed an odd response. Sorry for spamming.

gooner1 wrote:

pacerpete wrote:

sniffmydiff wrote:ideal whats the prob with the inlet plenum, so would i use a set of m30 mounts, & will it fit to my gear box or use the m5 box.

If you need to ask these questions you are not skilled enough to do this conversion. If you are paying someone hopefully you are rich enough as you will be looking at about £7000 !

Pete, how the hell do you come to that conclusion?. Plenty of people on here have fitted different engines and im sure the majority have asked questions about it.Be pretty pointless having this section if questions were,nt asked or answered. Btw, im not assuming the OP is skilled enough, just seemed an odd response. Sorry for spamming.

Engine and box will cost £2000- £3000, exhaust manifolds and system £1000-£1500, brakes, cooling , etc etc .This ain't no council lockup £200 e34 535 conversion ! Ask Karan

yeh its difficult and costly but mines been worth it

cheaper to go down the s50 route and you';ll have a better handling car at the end albeit slightly less torquey

S50 weighs more than the S38 ..... I think.

3.8 in an E30 is the ideal recipe for massive wheelspin and sideways action.

no way s50 weighs more??????

i find that hard to believe as s50 is short six and m30/s38 is big 6??

People keep going on about the weight of an engine being the be all and end all.. It's really more a matter of weight distribution.

The engines we fit to our E30's are pretty much +- 50kg's of each other, take that as a %'age of the overall vehicle weight and think to yourself\; 'how much is that actually going to affect the front/rear weight distribution?'. What is important is the distribution of the engine's mass both vertcally and over the front axle. The ackerman angles of the car are calculated such that it describes a certain radius when steering lock is applied. Add mass forward of this and you'll change the moment of inertia of the vehicle and it will tend to understeer more. Handling (not roadholding) is affected by adding mass above the roll centre of the suspension system increasing the roll acceleration of the system both making the car roll more in corners and more reluctant to change direction. To an extent, both of these affects can be counteracted by choice of spring, arb and damper rates; and by careful relocation of the engine.

I chose the S50 because it is easier to fit and to get it into a position where it shouldn't affect handling too much you simply have to bolt it in. The longer, taller and probably {slightly} heavier S38 needs custom mounts and bulkhead massaging to get it into a similar position. (plus an S50 turned up, is more modern and though it has less torque, due to the VANOS has a nice spread throughout the rev range).

From what I saw of Karans car he's had to spend a lot of time and energy placing the engine as far back as possible, sourcing suitable springs and dampers... All of which adds up to cost.

I consider myself pretty handy with a set of spanners.. I did an automotive engineering degree too. Don't get me wrong I'm no Colin Chapman and the first thing I'd do before starting an engine conversion is come on the forum and ask loads of inane questions to kick it all off.. Ignore Pete. He comes on here like a harbinger of doom but if you met him you'd understand his no-bullshit approach to life and his sense of humour.

As for the S38 conversion... It's gonna be expensive, difficult but well worth it. I personally prefer the idea of an S50 swap as it's easier (and probably a little cheaper because of it).

Good luck dude.

my current handling woes are not a front rear balance issue but more of a weight shift problem from front to rear due to excessive softness i think. it doesnt understeer at all actually. in essence the soft hartge suspension just makes it a bit boat spec at the moment. It is ideal for country roads as it handles the bumps amazingly well and grips hard.

Gaz coilovers and rose jointed rear arms should sort it i reckon

The GAZ stuff is nowhere near as the high quality bilsteins you have.

GAZ shocks are like SPAX shocks.

You've gone this far to make a proper car, please use some quality stuff!

The GAZ stuff is nowhere near as the high quality bilsteins you have.

GAZ shocks are like SPAX shocks.

You've gone this far to make a proper car, please use some quality stuff!

Err i am sorry are you seriouslly surgesting thats bilstein dampers are better than a GAZ coil over kit with rose jointed rear arms WTF

agreen wrote:

The GAZ stuff is nowhere near as the high quality bilsteins you have.

GAZ shocks are like SPAX shocks.

You've gone this far to make a proper car, please use some quality stuff!

Err i am sorry are you seriouslly surgesting thats bilstein dampers are better than a GAZ coil over kit with rose jointed rear arms WTF

Bilstein is the top shocks manufacturer known everywhere in the world. Cross the channel and Gaz is noname. Nobody heard about them. Also I know Bilsteins very well and for over 20 years they are the best for me in sensible price choice (Proflex and Ohlins are in different league but the prices are as well).
I heard a lot about very good customer service at GAZ (but it is not improoving the handling), also heard that it is managed by ex Leda stuff (which is known a little bit over the Europe) but mostly known by me as my Cossie was on Leda suspension. Quite good but even not close to Bilstein.
Just my 2p.
Jan

M5pilot wrote:The GAZ stuff is nowhere near as the high quality bilsteins you have.

GAZ shocks are like SPAX shocks.

You've gone this far to make a proper car, please use some quality stuff!

the gaz gold coilovers look top notch to me dude.... ok the shock itself may not be as advanced as an inverted billy.

if i track the car though the current stuff is just too high and too soft.


i think its all in the setup, my silvia has average quality coilovers on it but as its well set up i handles great.

agreen wrote:

The GAZ stuff is nowhere near as the high quality bilsteins you have.

GAZ shocks are like SPAX shocks.

You've gone this far to make a proper car, please use some quality stuff!

Err i am sorry are you seriouslly surgesting thats bilstein dampers are better than a GAZ coil over kit with rose jointed rear arms WTF

Errr....go do some homework.

what are some good true coilovers under 1000 that you can recommend for track/racecar use

M5pilot wrote:The GAZ stuff is nowhere near as the high quality bilsteins you have.

GAZ shocks are like SPAX shocks.

You've gone this far to make a proper car, please use some quality stuff!

id rate spax higher than gaz with bilsteins higher again.

Koni Racing Dampers (do not confuse with Koni Yellows) with individual adjustability for bump and rebound front and rebound only for rear with your choice spring rate. Obviously height adjustable being a coilover setup.

Springs will be Eibach's and there are loads of off the shelf spring rates to choose from.

Your looking at around £1000 for this setup.

If you want rose joints this will cost extra.

You don't need rose joints for a road car.

At this price level you really aren't going to get any better.

Some of the racers with deeper pockets are going for this sort of thing now.

for road? or track?

ride quality is not an issue,simply good robust damping to match spring rates and units that dont leak every 5 miles

You specify what you want and it can be made.

Knowing you it's going to be specced very hard!

im sure it would cost loads though

£1000.

Not alot more than GAZ in terms of money but alot more in terms of quality and the way it performs.

does that include rosejointed camber/castor adjustable top mounts and true coilovers at the rear?

GAZ fully rosejointed coilovers and true coilovers at the rear , good enough for the production bmw boys and the toyo tyres guys

£628 do think thats bad really .

Your looking at around £1000 for this setup.

If you want rose joints this will cost extra.

A rose joint on the top mount does not mean its fully rose jointed

Rose jointed adjustable rear arms, where they join to the beam to adjust your camber and tow is whats being dicussed here.

I do beive H&R coilover use bilstein shocks, but an other an option is to convert your front to a coilovers amd use a shock of your choice as well as any spring rates.

Rear true coilovers do present a few problems

1: due to the "new" position of the spring in a "true coilover set up" means spring rates to work for your ideal set up will vary from what the "ideal" spring rate when the OE postion is used , the leavering angle is different
2: they occasionally hit the the fuel breather pipe
3: it has been known for the rear turrets to end up getting damaged from the extra stress they are put upon
4: having the springs sit over the shock now limits the maximum width wheels you can run on the rear to about 8" with an et20

Nothing to major to worry about, but something worth taking into consideration

Karan wrote:im sure it would cost loads though

Have you ever check Ohlins and Proflex prices? Worth try IMO.
Jan

agreen wrote:GAZ fully rosejointed coilovers and true coilovers at the rear , good enough for the production bmw boys and the toyo tyres guys

£628 do think thats bad really .

Your looking at around £1000 for this setup.

If you want rose joints this will cost extra.

You really need to stop posting.