E30 Zone

Both engines are light four pots so would handle well, 204 bhp stock from the diesel remappable to 240 bhp with no other mods so slightly ahead of an S14 stock and when chipped.

S14:
Higher reving
Potential for more power modified / as a 2.5

N47:
More torque (400nm stock)

interesting logic. what does the n47 rev to? and what are the torque values from each?

By the time your N47 spools the turbo and all that torque has propelled you for ten feet the S14 would just be halfway through the rev range and as soon as you change gear in the 2.0d the s14 will just fly by with its middle fingers waving

Maybe if you said whats a S47 VS S14 like it could be a little different.

S14 wins hands down.

Will take abuse all day long. Can tune to massive hp depending on budget N/A or turbo. And the sound.

according to Wiki and a few other places

http://www.carfolio.com/specifications/ ... ?id=159984
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/BMW_1_Series

the 123d 2.0TTD N47 has 204hp (4400) and 295lbft(2000rpm) which means it would be faster in an e30 shell than a stock s14b23, remapped it would much faster as it has a fat power curve i.e. at 2000rpm it has 115hp vs probably 40hp .......but that is the nature of the beast.

Ha ha good luck! Come find me when you are done ill endevour to prove your theories very wrong!

Just to put it in context on the road a stock s14 is as quick as a 130i now you go figure ;)

Isnt it the N47's that like shitting their bottom ends out?

Demlotcrew wrote:Ha ha good luck! Come find me when you are done ill endevour to prove your theories very wrong!

Just to put it in context on the road a stock s14 is as quick as a 130i now you go figure ;)

Completely disagree. the 130i has 265 bhp and will crack 60 in 6.1 seconds. NO WAY will any E30 M3 (standard) bar possibly the Evo Sport will do those times....and even then its doubtful as its a much older car...wear and tear etc.

So lets clarify that, a 130i will show a clean pair of heels (IMHO) to an M3

Geoff wrote:Completely disagree. the 130i has 265 bhp and will crack 60 in 6.1 seconds.

That's on paper...

Not the road.

maxfield wrote:

Geoff wrote:Completely disagree. the 130i has 265 bhp and will crack 60 in 6.1 seconds.

That's on paper...

Not the road.

But thats how they got those figures Max....using the road. If you research any road test you'll see how they wax lyrical about the engine being a stormer and makes this a rapid car. They all quote around the 6.0/6.1 0-62.

Top Gear say it'll be in the 5's to 60mph.

I know your a defiant M3 lover as are many but you have to give it up when something faster comes along Max, and it has. The 130i.

Im not saying its better than an M3 as that would be silly, but its faster, plain and simple im affriad.

Geoff wrote:

maxfield wrote:

Geoff wrote:Completely disagree. the 130i has 265 bhp and will crack 60 in 6.1 seconds.

That's on paper...

Not the road.

But thats how they got those figures Max....using the road. If you research any road test you'll see how they wax lyrical about the engine being a stormer and makes this a rapid car. They all quote around the 6.0/6.1 0-62.

Top Gear say it'll be in the 5's to 60mph.

I know your a defiant M3 lover as are many but you have to give it up when something faster comes along Max, and it has. The 130i.

Im not saying its better than an M3 as that would be silly, but its faster, plain and simple im affriad.

Geoff wrote:But thats how they got those figures Max....using the road. If you research any road test you'll see how they wax lyrical about the engine being a stormer and makes this a rapid car. They all quote around the 6.0/6.1 0-62.

Top Gear say it'll be in the 5's to 60mph.

I know your a defiant M3 lover as are many but you have to give it up when something faster comes along Max, and it has. The 130i.

Im not saying its better than an M3 as that would be silly, but its faster, plain and simple im affriad.

Well its quite clear Max what we have here is a typical â€Ëatechspectunner' who clearly has had first hand experience of both cars on the Northloop and on the road side by side/head to head. So I would suggest we listen to what he has to say as hes only regurgitated what others have said and thats got to be correct! right....................?

oh dear

Yes they might of got them from the road but have they had both cars side by side racing?

This is turning into a bit of a love triangle

We need to all get a grip and not compare E30's to everything and think they are the best inclucding S14's in 318iS shells or E30 M3's,Alpina's and M20's. They should be enjoyed for what they are, if you like dropping engines in thats cool but get out of the trap of E30's being the best thing since sliced bread.

Simon i think you should stick to what you know best (bricks) and let the Men talk this one out.

Geoff wrote:

maxfield wrote:

Geoff wrote:Completely disagree. the 130i has 265 bhp and will crack 60 in 6.1 seconds.

That's on paper...

Not the road.

But thats how they got those figures Max....using the road. If you research any road test you'll see how they wax lyrical about the engine being a stormer and makes this a rapid car. They all quote around the 6.0/6.1 0-62.

Top Gear say it'll be in the 5's to 60mph.

I know your a defiant M3 lover as are many but you have to give it up when something faster comes along Max, and it has. The 130i.

Im not saying its better than an M3 as that would be silly, but its faster, plain and simple im affriad.

i dont have any first hand experience of driving either car but i do know a 130i gives me a better race than an e30 m3.
thats progress.

id like to see a modded diesel e30.

most modern turbo diesels will piss all over an e30 325i (standard).

was it not a diesel car that won at le mans ?

Demlotcrew wrote:Ha ha good luck! Come find me when you are done ill endevour to prove your theories very wrong!

Just to put it in context on the road a stock s14 is as quick as a 130i now you go figure ;)

It seems that the N47 has more average HP accross it´s rev range,
that WILL outrun a car with a S14 if the average power is lower,
especially if they are in a identical shell.


it´s just simple math,

Gunni wrote:

Demlotcrew wrote:Ha ha good luck! Come find me when you are done ill endevour to prove your theories very wrong!

Just to put it in context on the road a stock s14 is as quick as a 130i now you go figure ;)

It seems that the N47 has more average HP accross it´s rev range,
that WILL outrun a car with a S14 if the average power is lower,
especially if they are in a identical shell.


it´s just simple math,

It's actually not that simple.... if the S14 is only using 4500rpm-7500rpm then you only use the average horsepower in that region, it's TIME WEIGHTED average horsepower that matters, not average horsepower.

I should have made it more simple.

Average HP to the wheel across the rev range used by the gearbox / weight of the car.

Mattoz1 wrote:

Gunni wrote:

Demlotcrew wrote:Ha ha good luck! Come find me when you are done ill endevour to prove your theories very wrong!

Just to put it in context on the road a stock s14 is as quick as a 130i now you go figure ;)

It seems that the N47 has more average HP accross it´s rev range,
that WILL outrun a car with a S14 if the average power is lower,
especially if they are in a identical shell.


it´s just simple math,

It's actually not that simple.... if the S14 is only using 4500rpm-7500rpm then you only use the average horsepower in that region, it's TIME WEIGHTED average horsepower that matters, not average horsepower.

why would the s14 only be using 4500- 7500rpm figures?

fuzzy wrote:

Mattoz1 wrote:

Gunni wrote: It seems that the N47 has more average HP accross it´s rev range,
that WILL outrun a car with a S14 if the average power is lower,
especially if they are in a identical shell.


it´s just simple math,

It's actually not that simple.... if the S14 is only using 4500rpm-7500rpm then you only use the average horsepower in that region, it's TIME WEIGHTED average horsepower that matters, not average horsepower.

why would the s14 only be using 4500- 7500rpm figures?

shift points? change from first to second rpm drops from ~7500 to 4500 or so? similar with 2nd to 3rd. I've certainly never driven an m3 but the shifts would be somewhere around that...

E30 M3 would annihilate enough cars on the track. Probably the 130i. E30 M3's (in my opinion) are built better and therefore handle better.

130i most likely on the straight due to figures (no experience with them whatsoever).

Not many cars have been able to get away from me in my years of driving especially the newer BMW's (standard). I still wait to see a 130i give it some beans.


Regards.

that goes beyond my realms of thought but surely whatever way you work (average hp or time weighted average hp)it as long as that methods used on both cars it will give comparible figures . i dont actually know what im talking about and im also wasted

im also wasted

I'm so jealous.... but I only got up 1/2 hr ago (only 11am here) but it is the Australian Rules Football Grand Final today so I'll catch up soon enough

Talk all you like about this modern stuff. Yes, a 130i might be faster, along with N47's etc etc. And when they go, they're very good. But it's all unfixable junk at the end of the day. The much lauded N42 Valvetronic engine is the biggest piece of shit BMW have ever made. Not only is it absolutely characterless but it's horribly unreliable and completely unfixable when it blows up. Ask any BMW breaker what their most popular used engine is, and it'll be a Craptronic.
BMW went down the toilet when they went to alloy blocks and thus became intolerant of abuse. Overheat it once and it's scrap. The last proper engines they built were the S38 and the iron block M50TU 2.5 and M43. Everything after that is just a consumable - use it till it breaks, then throw it away.

Demlotcrew wrote:Simon i think you should stick to what you know best (bricks) and let the Men talk this one out.

how is dream world these days have the pound coins doubled overnight?!

I think it would be intersting for someone to try it, get it geared right and I think there maybe some suprises

Most S14's I've driven (except my "Unichpped" own LOL) are a bit like a Civic Type R.... Pretty gutless upto 5000 RPM and away you go, hit 6500 and even more power. 170-180lbsft torque against 400lbsft isn't to be sniffed at.

Not saying the N47 is a better engine to have in an E30 to make it go fast, but its a worthy contender.

Another way to look at it, "if" the S14 "is" faster then the N47, it would be the N47 driver who will be waving fingers in the air at the S14 driver in the Gas station.

i dont really know but i eagerly awaite the day when someone can take me around a track in an e30 m3 so i can experience first hand the wonders of the unbeatable "driving experience" that makes the e30 m3 the best car ever made bar none in the history of motoring and unbeatable on a track. thats not really that relevant to every daily life unless you do infact work on a race track
im always hearing that its not all about power its about the whole m3 package for that unmatched driving experience.
ive no idea what is specifically meant by that phrase and why it cant be matched as no ones ever went into detail

Most E30 cars out-handle most cars (if you know how to drive it). In town and on a track (my opinion). Depends on the driver really doesn't it.

BIGJO wrote:Most E30 cars out-handle most cars (if you know how to drive it). In town and on a track (my opinion). Depends on the driver really doesn't it.

but what does "out-handle mean" do you mean feels nice/is fun to drive (believable) or better grip/cornering speed (not believable)

Right setup on a E30 will handle well in cornering at speed. They are also very fun to drive

I'd love to know where this 'S14's are gutless up to 5000 rpm' comes from. I've driven a few and think they are surprisingly driveable. A proper 2.5 Sport Evo is pretty gutsy.