E30 Zone

I've always fancied a kit car but at present have no where to build one, I then began thinking about the basics of what appeals to me from a kit car which as essentially, light, low, rwd and quick.

With a bit of effort I'm happy that an e30 could tick most of these boxes.

However, one thing that has always appealed is sticking a hayabusa engine into a kit car. I then thought about sticking a hayabusa engine into a small hatch such as a 106 but with the fwd it would struggle with traction, then I thought about a bike engined e30.

The thing that concerns me is the weight of the car, even when stripped, I doubt it would be anywhere near a kit car.

Just thought I'd ask to see what people thought about a bike engined e30 whether the idea had legs or not?

Cheers

way too heavy IMO, these bike engines have plenty of power but no torque and that's what gets you up the road. The weight of an E30 would muller the gearbox i reckon, plus there's the whole reverse gear ball ache to overcome.

Build a LoCost and stick a V8 in

Fair enough, glad I asked because now I know.

Kit it is!

You have to think outside the box.

Rear engine hayabusa in a 106

As Beemerlad says the overall weight is critical if using a bike engine. The bike engined Westfields weigh around 500kg and are bloomin quick. I've got a 190bhp Zetec in mine with non lightweight seats etc and cannot get near the bike engined cars on trackdays.

Cheers,

Rich.

You could use two bike engines

chu346 wrote:You could use two bike engines

Thats really going outside the box.

2 turboed bike engines one powering each wheel

Now where talking altho cost might be an issue.

How about this..

www.tigerracing.co.uk

if you are serious about building a kit car, check out this link. i can vouch fully for this company as i worked there as a staurday lad for over 4 years. they built a twin bike engined car that gets to 60 in 2.9 seconds (its an experience! ). they are about hald price campared to caterham and westfield but the kit is a bit more involved. good luck

Tom

maxfield wrote:You have to think outside the box.

Rear engine hayabusa in a 106

I live outside the box, that thoughts been on my mind since I saw the ctr powered rwd saxo, that struggled with traction though

maxfield wrote:You have to think outside the box.

Rear engine hayabusa in a 106

Thank god I'm not the only one stupid enough to want to do this
jk

I know someone who's building an bike engine mini - front engine rear wheel drive completely custom suspension setup. That's light enough for a bike engine

On the other hand if you want to take an E30 and turn it into a kit car have a look at mine: www.msportster.co.uk - should be on the road in the coming months!

4 hayabusa engines, one for each wheel.

E30BeemerLad wrote:way too heavy IMO, these bike engines have plenty of power but no torque and that's what gets you up the road. The weight of an E30 would muller the gearbox i reckon, plus there's the whole reverse gear ball ache to overcome.

Build a LoCost and stick a V8 in

Torque has got nothing to do with it at ALL.
If you look at the HP curve on those motors,
you´ll see that they don´t have enough low end for a car.
so you would have to make it scream to propell it like a normal car.

Gunni wrote:

E30BeemerLad wrote:way too heavy IMO, these bike engines have plenty of power but no torque and that's what gets you up the road. The weight of an E30 would muller the gearbox i reckon, plus there's the whole reverse gear ball ache to overcome.

Build a LoCost and stick a V8 in

Torque has got nothing to do with it at ALL.
If you look at the HP curve on those motors,
you´ll see that they don´t have enough low end for a car.
so you would have to make it scream to propell it like a normal car.

but if they had some torque this would overcome the problem yes/no?

Even bike engined mini's I've seen on the strip seem to set off at 10K+ revs and still stall and make a sh1t job of getting off the line.

They're small displacement engines so they have low torque. But they rev like nutters so they make decent power high up. Power = torque x revs and all that.

Theo325 wrote:How about this..

go for a smart

E30BeemerLad wrote:

Gunni wrote:

E30BeemerLad wrote:way too heavy IMO, these bike engines have plenty of power but no torque and that's what gets you up the road. The weight of an E30 would muller the gearbox i reckon, plus there's the whole reverse gear ball ache to overcome.

Build a LoCost and stick a V8 in

Torque has got nothing to do with it at ALL.
If you look at the HP curve on those motors,
you´ll see that they don´t have enough low end for a car.
so you would have to make it scream to propell it like a normal car.

but if they had some torque this would overcome the problem yes/no?

Even bike engined mini's I've seen on the strip seem to set off at 10K+ revs and still stall and make a sh1t job of getting off the line.

you need to look at the big picture.

i.e HP / weight across the rev range, also less then WOT throttle situations,
rev´s don´t matter and neither does torque, you just have to look at the HP curve values , rest is just gearing.

There was a company something like JML from memory who has put a YZF R1 engine in a Saxo so it can be done in small hatchbacks. Got to space frame it and loose the rear seats in favor of the engine going there driving the back wheels. They used a muffit diff from memory.

I have a Fisher Fury and had an R1 engine sat in my garage for six months to replace the Fury's pinto engine. Couldn't bring myself to do it in the end as I love the torque of a car engine. Have since gone down the pinto turbo route and have created a bit of a beastie

carpmart wrote:There was a company something like JML from memory who has put a YZF R1 engine in a Saxo so it can be done in small hatchbacks. Got to space frame it and loose the rear seats in favor of the engine going there driving the back wheels. They used a muffit diff from memory.

I have a Fisher Fury and had an R1 engine sat in my garage for six months to replace the Fury's pinto engine. Couldn't bring myself to do it in the end as I love the torque of a car engine. Have since gone down the pinto turbo route and have created a bit of a beastie

Got any pics of the Fury, I quite like them

E30BeemerLad wrote:

carpmart wrote:There was a company something like JML from memory who has put a YZF R1 engine in a Saxo so it can be done in small hatchbacks. Got to space frame it and loose the rear seats in favor of the engine going there driving the back wheels. They used a muffit diff from memory.

I have a Fisher Fury and had an R1 engine sat in my garage for six months to replace the Fury's pinto engine. Couldn't bring myself to do it in the end as I love the torque of a car engine. Have since gone down the pinto turbo route and have created a bit of a beastie

Got any pics of the Fury, I quite like them

I have but dont know how to post images?

One of the twin-engined Tiger kit-cars was 4-wheel drive. This was fairly simple to do as they use or did use Golf Mk1/Scirocco front hubs and brakes. I have a Tiger Super Six which even uses Golf/Scirocco control-arms reversed as bottom-wishbone, later kits had fabricated wish-bones.
I think it was 2, 1.3 Kawazaki engine/gearboxes (combined BHP of 400+) that were used with one turned round to drive front wheels via a Sierra diff and 2nd driving rear wheels. There were 2 gear-levers side by side in the shape of letter T, they could be used both at same time or one on it's own. The engines were not connected together and had to use electrickery on front engine to prevent terminal understeer.
On an early Fifth Gear/Driven? Tiff Needell did 0-60 in 2.9 sec. Later trying to better this he (I think) missed a gear change on one of the engines, over-revved it and put a rod through the block. The guy that built it didn't look happy. Can't remember his name but he now does kits to put bike-engines in rear of Minis. Will have to go and look in my pile of kit-car mags to find his name.

Gunni wrote:rev´s don´t matter and neither does torque, you just have to look at the HP curve values , rest is just gearing.

Are you going to say that revs and horsepower are not related to torque?
Jan

Did you ever see the episode of American Hotrod when they put in a twin turbo big block chevy?? Even on the dyno before it was run in it was making 1500HP!! Truck sized turbos but supposedly a reiable set up!

Do that...twin turbo V8. make an easy 600hp!

get ur self a allegro

blown s14 kit car gets my vote.

Bike engine in a light car makes for very rapid progress. The lack of low end torque (and overall torque) doesn't matter as much as you might think if you gear it low enough to increase the available torque at the wheels. Of course, with the sequential 'box shifts are quick and easy so short ratios don't matter so much. I have an R1 powered Striker which will pull strong from 3Krpm in 6th and by strong, even abused like that it'll leave the 540i for dead. If you knock it down 3/4 cogs before you floor it...

In a heavier car it will still perform well, you'll just have to thrash it and accept that it'll never be doing less than ~6Krpm if you want decent performance.

Somebody mentioned a rear engined Saxo, I think Z Cars do a kit for that, they were also involved with the twin engined Tigers IIRC. A front engined rear drive Saxo wouldn't actually need that much fabrication work, a diff and wishbone carrier at the back could pick up the old beam mounts, add a set of Macpherson stuts from the front and turrets and you're nearly there. + of course moving the tank and enlarging the tunnel to take a prop shaft and all the usual little bits like exhaust/electrics - actually that does sound like a lot of work

jk

Yaninnya wrote:

Gunni wrote:rev´s don´t matter and neither does torque, you just have to look at the HP curve values , rest is just gearing.

Are you going to say that revs and horsepower are not related to torque?
Jan

No I am not....

If you have a rev range that begins at 200hp and ends at 500hp,
does anything else matter?

[quote="Geoff"]Did you ever see the episode of American Hotrod when they put in a twin turbo big block chevy?? Even on the dyno before it was run in it was making 1500HP!! Truck sized turbos but supposedly a reiable set up!

hum turbo lag mega spin up unless its a drag car.

dull! track car is the way.

still emense power though!

Theo325 wrote:How about this..

What a great idea. Would be even better in a smart roadster, those things actually go around corners!