E30 Zone

Posted: **Sun Jun 04, 2006 2:18 pm**

has anyone ever done the m3o afm conversion if so what did u think!!

Posted: **Sun Jun 04, 2006 5:53 pm**

I have done this in the past, it does work and does give a noticeable gain top end but is a complete pig to set-up.

I'd put money on you giving up after a few days of fiddling with it trying to get it to run right on load and at idle

Iain T

Posted: **Mon Jun 05, 2006 9:53 am**

ok mate cool did u put bigger injecters in aswell!!

Posted: **Mon Jun 05, 2006 3:50 pm**

Gotta be honest here, ive done this conversion, its still on my car... ive felt no difference to performance... it was easy to set up though!

Posted: **Mon Jun 05, 2006 4:24 pm**

do you not find it lean blingsta?
maybe if you had a chip whiich was giving more fuel it might not be as bad but if you just plug and played the m30 AFM i am sure it would be running lean?
interested to know you did it?

Posted: **Mon Jun 05, 2006 7:04 pm**

If anyone wants a M30 AFM I got one for sale in the parts for sale section

Only selling due to MegaSquirt install

Posted: **Mon Jun 05, 2006 10:07 pm**

liam012, hello mate, to be honest mate, its not lean at all, i just swopped circuit boards over and re-calibrated by turning the big cog inside a few clicks until it idled ok, then got mixture checked and it seemed ok..

Posted: **Tue Jun 06, 2006 11:48 am**

i have put the afm on already and i think it idles and runs a lot better the the 2.5 one

Posted: **Tue Jun 06, 2006 1:46 pm**

Hi , i tried this a while back and would say there is power to be had here if you have the time or dyno access to set it up ,i had mine running very sweetly and only took it off coz i was worried about a lean mixture coz the mpg was so good !! this conversion has been done for ages in the states and gareth on the original e30 zone forum had dyno access and made around 8 or 12 proven hp with it .

cheers ,paul .

Posted: **Tue Jun 06, 2006 11:38 pm**

i agree that you may see a benefit when a big bore throttle body is added along with other mods, i dont think it does much on its own... only way of finding out for sure is taking car to a dyno and doing a few runs with both AFM's

Posted: **Wed Jun 07, 2006 1:41 pm**

Argos wrote:
Shinobi1 wrote: gareth on the original e30 zone forum had dyno access and made around 8 or 12 proven hp with it .

That was a harsh reaction , just like you im passing on other peoples figures and experience plus my own having fitted one ,i was there when adams car was on the rollers so am aware of his too , i have nothing to gain or prove by bullshitting anyone . Absolute bullshit! If he got 8-12 bhp from an M30 AFM, how come BMW South Africa found 6 bhp on a 2.7 - when combined with a higher compression and a bit more head work (by Alpina).

You can make a dyno say anything you like. But on Bexley's dyno Adam's 2.8 lost a lot of horsepower with an M30 AFM. This is only going to work with a much bigger throttle body and a hairy cam and even then it's debatable.

Posted: **Thu Jun 08, 2006 12:57 pm**

well said

Posted: **Thu Jun 08, 2006 1:14 pm**

Thank you

have a quick search on the web and look at some of the american sites who have worked on this and posted dyno plots etc . not sure how you can make a dyno give the reading you want ? on the same day as adams car was run ians 332i gave about a 15 20 hp variation up and down due to heat soak .

Posted: **Thu Jun 08, 2006 3:30 pm**

I'm with Andrew on this one.

I wasted money and time and petrol on my 2.7 with his cack conversion.

It will work but only if you get the ECu mapped to work with the AFM. Setting it up with an FSE will not give a perfect running car. You may well get it running ok at some RPM's but at others it will either run really lean or really rich.

Oh, and I'm talking about proper remaps. Not some geezer who drives your car for 10 mins with a laptop (with no lamda input!) and tells you its ok with a chip.

But if your going to through the expense of a remap you might aswell buy a MAF and stick that on and have a proper setup.

Adams car as mentioned above made 184 odd bhp and then 196 before and after M30 afm. There are about 15 people who witnessed this!

So the basic point of it is this, if you want to do it do it properly and get a remap with a MAF added on.

Otherwise don't waste your time!

Posted: **Thu Jun 08, 2006 3:37 pm**

Just like to add:

Swapping over the circuit board from the M20 afm into the M30 afm is also a total waste of time.

The M20 electronics are calibrated to the internal volume of an M20 AFM. So if you stick it on an M30 AFM (which has a significantly larger internal volume) the amount of air being sucked in will be thought to be way more in volume. The amount of fuel being thrown in wont be enough and you'll be running very lean.

Some people counter this by increasing the fuel pressure but its one big dirty compromise and one of the biggest bodge mods ever.

As for people saying their cars run better now - your old AFm was probably shagged in the first place.

As a rule, you all need to get rid of your AFM's. Most of them don't work correctly and are usually the sole reason for over fuelling (spring wears out).

The M20 will run and go better with a MAF conversion.

Or you could all go AlphaN but there are driveability issues to be taken into account here unless the map is done to perfection. Not easy!

There are plenty of good solutions out there for this conversion. We can supply them if need be.

Posted: **Thu Jun 08, 2006 4:07 pm**

M5pilot wrote:As for people saying their cars run better now - your old AFm was probably shagged in the first place.

I would go with this for the real reasons.

Im not convinced with the rolling road results. The thing is the ECU does not take any readings from the AFM on WOT, this means that if one were to fit a M30 AFM (which flows more air) you would actually let the engine draw more air, but the ECU does not have any way to recognise the extra air and will not add more fuel to balance the mixture for peak power so it would then make the engine run very lean on WOT (which could in time melt the pistons) Anything bellow 80% throttle the readings will then be taken from the AFM and because the boards are different between the two AFM's its anyone's guess what the results would be.

So basically its poo and a total waste of time.

Andrew

Posted: **Thu Jun 08, 2006 4:11 pm**

I wish I'd kept my old dyno sheets for the Alpina.

I had Bexleys set up the M30 AFM on the rollers with just an FSE for them to play with. Before the exercise they said i'm wasting my time but I didnt listen.
They set the fuel pressure up at WOT rus only and it still gave a powerloss!

185bhp with M30 AFM, over 190 without it.

Take it from the people who have wasted the time and money on this rubbish years ago - its cack!

Posted: **Thu Jun 08, 2006 6:10 pm**

I say lets prove it!!!

I got one for sale if anyone wants to give it a go.....

Posted: **Thu Jun 08, 2006 6:23 pm**

Fair enough i give in ,im not going to argue ,i know a maf will give more power at 100 times the price , i still maintain that people have had sucess with it . and to add a couple of other points .

1 .it did not make my "m20 an overfuelling piece of shit " read the road test of my car in tbmw mag a couple of years ago

2.remember sal i have been around for years too ( like the little pop at remapping by the way ,not jason by any chance ! )

Posted: **Thu Jun 08, 2006 6:30 pm**

just to add.....

Adams car as mentioned above made 184 odd bhp and then 196 before and after M30 afm. There are about 15 people who witnessed this!

I was there, it was my M20 AFM we fitted, and that was internally modded so the point is mute I feel

this could go on for years( indeed it has :lol:

)

Horses for courses maybe ?

Me, I say bin the lot and go MS, you know it makes sense

Posted: **Thu Jun 08, 2006 6:48 pm**

Anyone tried the M50B20 non Vanos MAF yet??? tempting with its in built signal conditioner, and you still have the facility to alter the idle CO with these.

Same MAf is on E32 750i, just uses two of them......

Go on, be a devil

Posted: **Thu Jun 08, 2006 6:51 pm**

old skool zoners thread!

they seem to love this M30 lark in the states and hate it here

if i had the money i'd go M40 AFM all the way

Argos how could u make all that coilpack wrongness work? Is it really worth it too

Posted: **Thu Jun 08, 2006 6:56 pm**

the COP setup ( 6 coils) wont work on the M20, there's no cam position sensor so unless you could run two coils off one trigger the CPS would need retrofitting somewhere,

iirc the VR sensor is located lower on the M50, so the missing teeth count would be wrong as would the TDC no ?

Given enough R+D time, anything is possible though, and its a bloody good idea either way

Still dont "like" the M50/52 though, lacks a bit of soul in the soundtrack

Posted: **Thu Jun 08, 2006 8:13 pm**

Argos wrote:
shinobi wrote: and to add a couple of other points .

1 .it did not make my "m20 an overfuelling piece of shit " read the road test of my car in tbmw mag a couple of years ago
It's not personal Paul, the comment wasn't aimed at you! Just those who are thinking of doing it. And it was I that drove your car for the mag test - I had a 325i Touring at the time and didn't feel yours drove as well in normal driving as a standard car.

Looked good tho.

well why did you write "on the road pauls car feels just how they should " and "it certainly feels more lively than a standard car ,a fact reinforced when driving snapper puseys stock 325i touring afterwards " and " it certainly feels as strong as the white alpina 2.7 we built for trackdays ,having driven this car and seen what can be done with a 2.5 im not sure id bother with the bigger engine a second time around " ????????????

Posted: **Thu Jun 08, 2006 9:13 pm**

guys c'mon

we're all sure our own opinions are right, life's like that

Posted: **Thu Jun 08, 2006 9:25 pm**

Argos wrote:It's called being polite..............

The touring you mentioned was a shagged out automatic and the white 2.7 was as flat as a fart over 5000 rpm. A good manual 325i would have shat on either of them.

That answer your question?

well what the hell is the point of writing an article that is in your own polite words " absolute bullshit " ? if people read and take notice of what you write ,then how are they to know when you are " being polite " or telling the truth ?

Posted: **Thu Jun 08, 2006 10:33 pm**

[quote="Argos"]Look, your car looked nice but didn't go very well. Get over yourself.

Would you rather I told everyone?

If you want this to become a nasty, personal slagging match then bring it on.[no /quote] no that is not what i want , but i just cant see the point of adding performance comparisons in a magazine article if they were meaningless ? why mention it all ? as for peoples opinon of my car or how well it goes or does not go is not important ,i still love it regardless , i just thought a magazine article would be true and fair ,surely a reasonable assumption from a reader ?

Posted: **Thu Jun 08, 2006 11:41 pm**

Ant,

The AFM actually came out of my C2 2.7 which was being mapped at the time. It was a totally standard AFM. I took it off my car and and gave it to Adam who returned it to me at a later.

A MAF conversion totally wipes the floor with alot of other mods. Its the one single mod that makes a very very significant difference on a 325i.

StandAlone is bloody excellent!

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