E30 Zone

What Is Wrong With The E30 320i Engine? Why do people say its not good?

I would love to get a 325i but I am just a student with minimum income (student loan).

I did the terrible thing of looking in eBay for one...but they are still out my range...

Any guidance to a BMW newbie would be much appreciated.

Thanks

oh well here we go again... no doubt the 325 lads will be out with their handbags any minute to give you lots of reasons why your engine is supposedly inferior.. (I have a 320i touring BTW)

The 2.0 M20 is fine.

It's not the most powerful / torquey 2.0 out there (and fuel consumption will suffer as result of it needing more throttle in day to day use) but its a perfectly nice engine imo.

Why have four cylinders when six sound so much nicer?

Before i get flamed ihave a 318is!

The 325 has a lot of power, whereas the 318is has good economy and is still nippy. So you would think the 320i would be better rite? Wrong; it has worse economy than a 318is and is a slug compared to a 325i. Im in the same situation as you mate; insurance is a killer especially as a student; a 318is is much cheaper to insure and quicker and cheaper on fuel and probably cheaper to maintain as its only four pot. it still sounds nice as high revs!

There is nothing at all wrong with the M20B20 engine - it is an excellant, smooth, long lived, reliable BMW engine.
If you have a car with this engine, then enjoy it to the full, but it'll cost you a bit in fuel.
The problem with the 320 is when people start talking about tuning it for more power. This is an utterly pointless excersize, usually done for minimal gains by bolting on various 325 bits.
Far better to leave the bits attached to the 325 engine and drop the whole lot in, or attach your 320 head to a 2.7 525e bottom end.

i agree. there's nothing wrong witht he M20B20, it's just overshadowed by larger bmw engines and the powerful revvy 318is.

it's a nice engine to own, smooth and with a lovely flat torque curve. a real plus point, the heads don't crack like a 2.5!!!

i like my 320i, it dosent appear to be as bad on fuel as people make out on here either, 30mpg is not difficult and commuting to work (90% motorway but in rush hour) it nudges upto the high 30's.

I will eventually want more power though.. i always do but not for a while yet, slapping this head on a 525e block and adding a LSD is the way to go with this bye bye fuel economy

Hmmm - surprise, my 320i has 6 cylinders...not 4.

The_Duke wrote:I did the terrible thing of looking in eBay for one...

Nothing wrong with that! I bought mine off eBay. OK, so I may have got lucky, but I 'phoned the seller and he e-mailed me loads of pics. I never saw the car until I went to pick it up (on the train - one way ticket!), but I knew exactly what I was buying. I know it was risky, but you can tell when someone's being straight with you.
If I ever need to replace my Touring, I won't be afraid to buy off eBay again.
Oh.... And there's nothing wrong with the M20B20. OK, so it's heavy on fuel ('specially if you nail it a lot), but it seems 99% of E30's are. Personally, I don't find the consumption all that bad. It's only about 3mpg worse than the Orion 1.6efi I had before.
Stuart.

I had a 320i. I used to get 40mpg out of it too when sat at a steady 70mph on the motorway...but I think I clocked 10-12mpg round the 'ring

As people say, theres nothing wrong with the engine at all. It is just when you compare to the rest of the range.

If you look in an E30 owners manual, you will find a 325i has better fuel economy than a 320i in all but urban, which is only marginally worse.

Also, the 320i is only one insurance group lower than the 325i.

Which is all fair enough until you consider a 318i has similar performance which much more rpeferable fuel economy and insurance premiums!

On the plus side though, just like the 325i, the 320i is silky smooth and sweet sounding and has 6-cylinders.

Thats the choice

Fuel consumption is not too much of an issue...

duke buddy, just addin my ten pence worth over to you, was in the same boat, had the 2 litre six pot, chipped through a stainless exhaust with a throttle body off the 2.5, and a few other bits, and i got to a point and figured, what the hell, stick the whole 2.5 in,
only cost me 300 quid for 30 horses from andytouring, took one weekend, and its the best 300 notes i ever spent, now i have a growlin munster that is REALLY good fun!
think what i am sayin is enjoy that ikkle engine, its lovely, will take as much abuse i i threw at it,
and save those pennies for the 2.5, dont waste time on trick bits for an extra pony here and there, then when you have the 2.5 you can start borin it for the 2.7, or doing the turbo thing i am, i admit im doing it to a 3.5, but hey, why mess about, if your gonna do it, make sure its gonna be worth it!

all the best, oh and i have the old chipped brain if your interested, 35 notes to you my good sir

Chipped brain at 35 notes - well, can you hold onto it till I get a few more notes...can only do a little at a time...and was considering the 3.5i engine after seeing it in an E30...

Just knowing where to begin...have lots to think about since being here...

Thanks people - all very helpful.

consider it held, its just sat in my garage at the minute so its going nowhere, drop me a buzz when you have the reddies, oh and where abouts in the kingdom are you? im in stafford, just up from birmingham

Dude I have a jetronic 320i auto man and i've changed the diff from a 3XX (not known cos ratio was sanded off) to a 4.10 ... it still slow like a snail ... not enough of power but drinks like hell ... i only get 220 miles max from it driving around town.

What's the normal mileage for the 320i auto anyway?

I have not got the faintest, bud, I not driven her in a while... She parked on the drive at the moment, but mine is manual. She does drink a bit round town...and thinking of changing her to a 325i.

There is nothing WRONG with the M20B20 but it was designed with different pistons and head to do a different job to the 2.5. The reason people go on about MPG's is that you'd expect it to be better than the 2.5 where as it's worse, but this is for a reason. The 2.0 has oodles of torque, it was designed to be the lazy effortless drive, whereas the 2.5 was the yuppies high horsepower racer saloon. The thing is 15 years on , and I think I talk for everyone on this forum, we all want power now! So the original gap the 2.0 was designed for has kindda dissappeared.

But now thw 2.0 has a new calling, 2.7 donor, so it's not all bad.


You do get those horrid rear drums though.

The drums can be replaced with discs though - right?

Yeah you need to replace the whole arms.
TBH IMO just buy a 325.
I'm a poor student too and I run a 325 on a student loan.
Driving a 325 cab this week actually.Oh and I've bought my last 3 cars on ebay, and a 628 for my flat mate, aslong as you know what your looking at and what it could cost if it goes wrong, and don't go over your limit it's very safe.

What does TBH IMO stand for please?

I been advised to get a 325 instead of 320 if I want to modify...what do you think?

I would agree, et a 325, they tend to come with better spec too and have ABS and discs on the rear etc... much more tune ability.


To Be Honest : In My Humble Opinion

Its finding a decent one a student can purchase LOL and ebay - you cant always know which one is good or not.

Damn you!!! I had a great 325i for sale a week ago, tatty as fuck but sound mechanically through and through, I got a 325i touring for Ԛ£360 a couple of weeks ago. Try to go and look at them, and don't get sucked in to bidding wars, snipe the car and if you don't get it c'est la vie, better to keep looking than pay over the odds. Where are you based mate and what's you buget? (considering that I've had 5 whilst at uni and yet have to pay more than Ԛ£400 for one and I've sold 2 on at a profit!)

Duke, you have to work out what your max budget is to buy fella, then see what sort of metal that gets you, both for 320 & 325. Then sit down and BE HONEST and work out what you can afford to be paying for insurance and fuel on a month-to-month basis. You have to make an allowance of at least Ԛ£50 a month for the car, either repairing what's gone wrong or making little mods to it etc.

With a 320 you will have a lovely noise, which will make the desire to rev the fanny off it override the need to keep off the gas for the sake of fuel bills. You will also spend money on trying to get it nowhere near the performance of the 325. If the insurance costs are not poles apart, then see if you finances can stretch to a 325. But a 320 is certainly no shameful place to be starting E30 ownership and there are plenty about, some very well looked after examples too as well as some proper neglected turds

Bargains can be had, I got my MTEC kitted 325 for Ԛ£500 from a mate, but it ain't really a peach, plenty of scabby bits to contend with but i certainly had a summer of fun and learned how to change a cambelt myself

I was thinking of putting in an E32 or 34 3.5i engine in the 320 anyway. So, the engine is neither here nor there.

I understand its an expensive game or hobby - but have always wanted to - so need to start somewhere, and my 320 has a very good body from what I can see...but not sure how to really tell, and it has only had 4 owners from new.

I am at uni in Northampton (not working for reasons I dont want to publicise) and this one has cost me a Ԛ£1k since the cam belt went.

Cambelts, the M20 achilles heel! Have to be changed religously.

Places to check for rust to define whethere your body is good or not:
Pull back boot trim to check arches havn't rusted through.
Check spare wheel well and around rear light clusters on the inside.
Get your fingers under the rear arches (From the outside) and feel for the crumbly stuff. There shouldn't be any.
Check the full length of the sills visually, then once more, get your fingers behind the sills and run the full length both sides feeling for corrosion. Don't cut yourself!
If you can be arsed, pull up the carpet in the footwells to check for water. This gcould be from rust in the footwells or on the bulkhead. TO check the bulkhead, shine a torch down the vents at the base of the windscreen (Outside).
I think E30BeemerLad mentioned a rust hole under the fuse box. may be worth a look.
Don't worry too much bout front wings. These are bolt on/off and are cheap!

If you have no rust in these areas, you are a very lucky man my friend!

Thank you - I will look in these places tomorrow.

In answer to the original question, there's fuck all wrong with the engine really. Damn good IMHO. You buy a run of the mill 2.0 engine now in a renault, or any other mid-sized european family car, and you will be looking at similar power output to the old M20, unless of course you opt for a top of the range sports model, and yes I know they are more efficient now, a four banger acheiving better mpg and similar power. But the 320 if I'm not mistaken was just that, a 320, their standard issue 2.0 engine at the time, so absolutely cracking for a 20+ year old designed engine.

My 2.0 has done over 170k, is as quiet as a lamb and pulls strong. No it's not fast, but take it up the revs and it hurrys along nicely. Fuel consumption is not all that bad, and it sounds great. I'm not too sure what the argument is with the 1.8 vs 2.0, with nearly 20% more power and torque over the 1.8 the 2.0 would be the obvious choice. If I wanted a nice E30 to restore and show, I would have no quibles at all over having the privalege to drive a cracking little 6 cyl engine.

I didn't buy the 320 because it was a 320 though, I wanted a 325, but all the ones I saw around were shitters or had poor shells hidden under the bits that were stuck to them. I wanted the best E30 shell I could find, and it happened to be in a 320 coupe, and for a cracking price so that is what I bought.

For power though, no point in tuning it, you could spend thousands and not even get close to the same power as a 325.

Thanks,

Steve

Your missing the point on the 318 Vs 320 arguement, it's the 318 is they are reffering to which is the double overhead cam 140bhp 1.8, so similar power but 1.8 economy and a lighter front end so nippy and M3 style handling.

I checked out my 320 and there is no rust and its 17 years old...

My original idea was to make it a 335i conversion...but somehow this has got drowned somewhere...

Was also considering putting in a V12 conversion...really want Old Skool look with masses of bhp under the hood...with a 320 badge...and then in straight out runs, rip their heads off so to speak...

Widge wrote:Your missing the point on the 318 Vs 320 arguement, it's the 318 is they are reffering to which is the double overhead cam 140bhp 1.8, so similar power but 1.8 economy and a lighter front end so nippy and M3 style handling.

The 318IS has the engine that was designed for the new E36 and actually came in in 1991 on the new shape E36 at the time. I fail to see how that can be compared to an engine that was made a decade earlier? I've never even seen an E30 that came this lump from the factory?

Err, chaps, we ar going off topic here - can we stick to the salient issues please, and we can start thread discussing the pros and cons of 318IS versus 320s...

The_Duke wrote:Err, chaps, we ar going off topic here - can we stick to the salient issues please, and we can start thread discussing the pros and cons of 318IS versus 320s...

Sorry fella, you asked what was wrong with it and I said nothing, and told you why I think it is good.

Anyway, I wouldn't waste your time trying to tune that lump if you want a fast E30. I would source a good s/h engine and drop it in. If your not that keen on doing it yourself, then you can get a specialist to do it. I didn't know If I would have the time to drop a 325i in my 320 shell, so I enquired incase and found most places wanted about 6 hours labour to get the engine in with all ancilleries and running, so 40-50+ an hour best part of 250-300. Not bad considering.

Older BMW engines aren't all that expensive either TBH, all depends on why you bought the car and what you are looking for? Why did you go for a 320 in the first place?

Im not going for a super fast car, I just want a car I can throw the backend around like I could my old S13 grifter. And a nicely set up, stripped out 325 equiped E30 will be perfect

Initially, I bought the car for two reaosns, it was cheap, looked good, and I needed transport of a reliable nature....

Since then, the E30 bug has bitten me and I want more... I saw a 335i conversion and though - wow - like this idea and started to find out about it...

I have heard lots of info and am kinda more cnfused than when I started...

My 320 is in very good shape - no rust to be seen anywhere...

P.S. What does TBH stand for?