E30 Zone

Posted: **Thu Aug 04, 2005 3:23 pm**

Okay I'm using the engine, ECU, and harness from an '89 735i. What problems or complications will I have putting this stuff into an '84 318i? I'm using a manual tranny, and the donor car was an auto. However, I don't think the TPS will be a problem. It still has the usual 3 pins/wires that will go to the ECU, right? It's just that the signal coming from the other three pins/wires won't have anywhere to go. Also, what about my crossmember? Is there any difference in it than a crossmember from a 6 cylinder e30? Sorry for the long post. Hope someone can help.

Posted: **Thu Aug 04, 2005 3:36 pm**

hiya mate cnt help sorry but hope you dnt me nickin ya advice too as im soon doing same conversion but 730i so i imagine loom will be the same ?

have ya started yours yet?? any tips? cheers Daz

Posted: **Thu Aug 04, 2005 4:15 pm**

i used an '89 316i. and a '90 535i auto engine and complete harness.

there aren't problems converting a 535i/735i from auto to manual in original shell, and similarly my engine runs perfectly with a manual box and no auto ecu connected. in fact it plugged straight in and started first turn of the key - although i had pinouts for car and engine already sussed so i knew every wire was correct.

however as your car is pre-facelift (hence pre-motronic management) yours is unlikely to plug straight in, you will need to work out which wires are for what in the car side of the engine plug (do say if you don't know what i'm on about!!)

crossmember same as far as i know, i had no problems.

Posted: **Thu Aug 04, 2005 4:21 pm**

daz i'll give you a demo at ferrybridge if u like, to help u make ur mind up

Posted: **Thu Aug 04, 2005 4:33 pm**

im gonna be there mate so will take you up on that
sat here now planning the strip out from the 730

gonna be a while till it goes in mine as no cash for all the bits i need yet but its def going in over winter

be nice to see how tight the bugger is in yours and get a real idea of what im doing Daz

no doubt i,ll be on your cas regular from now on mate

Posted: **Thu Aug 04, 2005 5:27 pm**

what type of connectors are they engine loom side and car side?

There is info out there on this on e30.de but it's in German.

Also this:

I also found this regarding the e28 - e34 swaps and I think the info is more or less the same.

Ok, even though this is from the E30 ETM, it should be the same. Let me know if any of the wire colors are not found or different, and I will try to dig up my E28 ETM. Please note that I am partially color blind so I have great difficulty telling the difference between Green and Brown. So some wires that might be Green I will call Brown and vise versa.

The connectors that need to be taken into account are C101 and C103. C101 is the 17 pin connector that plugs into the fuse box. C103 is the connector that plugs into the motor wiring harness under the dash on the passenger side. There are anywhere from 5-3 wires in C103. The wires on the side of the body are colored, BK(to instrument cluster(tach speed drive)), BR(Ground), WH/BK(to instrument cluster(fuel economy gauge drive)), GN/RD(not used(goes to one side of the OBC relay)), GN/YL(not used(goes to the other side of the OBC relay)). Now first lets concentrate on this plug. On the E28, BK goes to BK/BL, BR goes to BR, and WH/BK goes to WH. On an E30, the 2 wires that are not used in the E28 are used, which I believe are also used on the E34. These 2 wires are what cuts the ignition control when the CODE function of the OBC is used. If you are wanting to wire these in, they should connect to the one GN/RD wire. Basically, you cut the GN/RD wire and run one side down one of the unused wires and back to the other side of the GN/RD wire. In the E28, though the OBC relay should control the no start function by cutting power to the main relay, so that is why your car runs now, so I would just leave the 2 wires that aren't connected, unconnected.

Now onto the 17 pin plug on the side of the fuse box. C101. I believe that all of the connections for C101 and C103 in the E28 are contained in the E34 C101, so you will have to do some splicing up near the ECU to put in the other end of the E28 C103. The E28 plug has listed numbers I am going to refer to these number and the wire color that should come out of it on the E28 motor and what it does.
Pin 1, BU goes to alternator. Goes to alternator "charge indicator" light in instrument cluster.
Pin 2, BU/VI or BU/RD static oil level sender unit. Goes to static oil level light in the active check control unit.
Pin 4, BR/WH Coolant temp sensor driver wire. Runs to coolant temp gauge in instrument cluster.
Pin 6, GN/YL goes to the O2 sensor heater relay. Gets power from fuse 6 and in the fuse box is colored GN/WH.
Pin 7, GN/VI gets power from Pin 87 of Fuel Pump Relay and goes to fuse 1 in the fuse box.
Pin 8, BK/YL Starter trigger wire comes from the ignition key.
Pin 9, Not used
Pin 10, WH/BK To Diagnostic connector Pin 6. Said to be "not used".
Pin 12, GN Powers the coil from fuse 1 of fuse box
Pin 13, BU/WH Dynamic oil level sender unit. Goes to oil level light in active check control unit.
Pin 14, BR/GN Oil Pressure switch. Runs to oil pressure light in instrument cluster.
Pin 15, WH/BU Service indicator to Diagnostic connector.
Pin 16, GN Is the same as the GN wire in Pin 12 and is actually spliced together with the wire from Pin 12 at S127
Pin 17, GN/VI To Fuel pump relay through splice S128

The E34 uses a round style connector to plug into the fuse box. This has 20 pins so I will list what the wires in each of those do.
Pin 1, BU goes to the alternator. Comes from the Instrument Cluster "charge indicator" light. BU in the fuse box.
Pin 2, GN/YL comes from oil lever sensor. It is BU/BK in the fuse box and runs to the static oil level active check control unit, which is the same as the oil level light.
Pin 4, BR/VI comes from the coolant temp sender unit. It is BR/VI in the fuse box and goes to the Instrument cluster temp gauge.
Pin 5, BR/GN Oil pressure switch. Runs to instrument cluster oil pressure light.
Pin 6, GN/WH goes to the O2 sensor heater relay. Gets power from fuse 9 and in the fuse box is colored GN/YL.
Pin 7, GN comes from the ignition switch and goes to the Start Input, in the motronic unit and it also goes to Pin 15 on the coil. In the fuse box it is colored GN.
Pin 8, WH/BK comes from the motronic unit "present fuel rate output". Is YL/WH in fuse box and runs to Fuel Economy Gauge in the bottom of the tach.
Pin 9, BK goes to the ECU Engine speed output. This is BK in the fuse box. On the E28 this actually should be the connected in C103.
Pin 10, BU comes from the oil level sensor. It is VI/GN in the fuse box and goes to the active check control unit as the dynamic oil level light.
Pin 11, WH/GN comes from Pin 7 of the diagnostic connector. Is WH/BU in the fuse box and goes to the Service Indicator Processor.
Pin 12, GY comes from the ECU and is the trigger for the "Check Engine" light control. In the fuse box it is BR/BK. This wire is not used on the E28, since there is no check engine light.
Pin 13, GN/VI comes from Pin 87 of fuel pump relay. Is VI/RD in fuse box and runs to Fuse 11.
Pin 14, BK/WH comes from motronic unit "Speed Signal Input". Is BU/YL in fuse box and goes to the Speed Input of the Instrument Cluster.
Pin 15, BK/GN comes from Pin 30h on the coil. In the fuse box it is BK/GN and runs to the unloader relays.
Pin 16, WH/BK comes from Pin 6 of diagnostic connector and is used in the SRS system. In the fuse box it is WH/BK and is said to be not used.
Pin 18, BK/YL is the starter trigger and comes from in the car. It is also BK/YL in the fuse box. It also runs to Pin 11 of the diagnostic connector.
Pin 20, RD/YL comes from Pin 87 of the main relay. It is RD/YL and goes to power the ABS Hydraulic Unit.

I believe that the rest of the plugs aren't used.

I believe that Pin 14 is also not needed to have the car run properly.
I have yet to find out what propose it serves so I would say it doesn't need to be connected. And any of the E34 pins that I do not have connecting to a pin on the E28 harness means that it does not need to be connected, or there is no place for it to be connected.

Now here is a list of which wires need to go where.
C101 E34 to E28
Pin 1 Pin 1
Pin 2 Pin 2
Pin 4 Pin 4
Pin 6 Pin 6
Pin 13 Pin 7
Pin 18 Pin 8
Pin 16 Pin 10
Pin 7 Pin 12
Pin 10 Pin 13
Pin 5 Pin 14
Pin 11 Pin 15
Pin 7 Pin 16
Pin 13 Pin 17

C103
Pin 9 Pin 1 BK
Pin 8 Pin 3 WH/BK

I have spent now 7 hours on this, so I really hope it helps.

Written by Rob Anderson '01

Heavy reading but I hope it sheds some light on it. Daz is your 3.0 the V8 or the M30 inline 6 based one?

Posted: **Thu Aug 04, 2005 7:22 pm**

um that's a good point

i think he has the m30... but maybe i'm wrong

...Daz?

Posted: **Thu Aug 04, 2005 7:26 pm**

this is mine m30 aint it???

hope you not gonna tell me it aint an option

gotta pop out back in half hour Daz

Posted: **Thu Aug 04, 2005 8:03 pm**

there's always an option

Daz if it's an early 730 it has an engine that looks v similar to this except for the air filter. (not a great pic but the easiest one to hand)

if it's a later 730 (same shape though still e32) it has the m60 V8 engine which looks different (more modern looking)

which is it!

Posted: **Thu Aug 04, 2005 8:06 pm**

http://img109.imageshack.us/my.php?imag ... 1482gs.jpg

thats mine mate looks like yours but 3.0

whats bhp etc on the 3.0?

pls say its ok???

Posted: **Thu Aug 04, 2005 8:45 pm**

yeah that's fine. you can do exactly the same install as i have, the engine is externally the same. need same flywheel, gearbox clutch bits engine mounts prop etc as my 3.5.

which is good cos then u can drop a 3.5 in when you can afford it!

it's only about 200bhp from what i remember but it's supposed to be an extremely smooth engine, one of the smoother m30s. had a go in a 730 a while ago and the engne felt lovely

Posted: **Thu Aug 04, 2005 9:04 pm**

as feck

so whats bhp on the 3.5???

Posted: **Thu Aug 04, 2005 9:13 pm**

211bhp/230lbft torque

but that's with a cat. the older m535i engine is 218bhp without cat and the newer engine has bigger inlet valves so should be around 220 bhp without cat.

and mine is chipped

Posted: **Thu Aug 04, 2005 9:18 pm**

how come such a small bhp increase?????????

dnt hav to run a cat do i?

Posted: **Thu Aug 04, 2005 9:33 pm**

no u do not!

dunno if the 3.0 power figure is with cat or without cat

Posted: **Thu Aug 04, 2005 11:08 pm**

Small increase from 3.0 to 3.5 as they didn't really change much else, there is a lot more potential in the 3.5 but the engine is restricted by the air intake/AFM/throttle body I belive..

Posted: **Fri Aug 05, 2005 12:03 am**

hmm not heard that. but obviously interested!

i have a very big cone filter with large cold air feed and a cheap plug in ecu chip, and that alpina exhaust manifold when i get round to it, nothing else.

so can you improve the inlet then and is it worth it? i spent an hour filing away the throttle butterfly spindle on my old m30 cos it looked a bit fat and i was bored. didn't feel any difference but then that engine was f**ked!!

Posted: **Fri Aug 05, 2005 12:26 am**

Only what I have heard from casual forum browsing, throttle body changes seem to yield very very nice power gains, removing the AFM is also a must.

I was just having a quick look to see if I could find the stuff I read but alas it escapes me. Get Andy335 to put his ITB on and see what difference that makes

Posted: **Fri Aug 05, 2005 4:35 am**

Toby_Unna wrote:i used an '89 316i. and a '90 535i auto engine and complete harness.

there aren't problems converting a 535i/735i from auto to manual in original shell, and similarly my engine runs perfectly with a manual box and no auto ecu connected. in fact it plugged straight in and started first turn of the key - although i had pinouts for car and engine already sussed so i knew every wire was correct.

however as your car is pre-facelift (hence pre-motronic management) yours is unlikely to plug straight in, you will need to work out which wires are for what in the car side of the engine plug (do say if you don't know what i'm on about!!)

crossmember same as far as i know, i had no problems.

Wow, thanks for all the replies, guys! I do understand what you mean Toby_Unna about the engine side of the plug. However, my 318i didn't really have a plug. Basically there was a red wire bolted into the bottom of the fuse box, and the rest of the harness went to sensors, injectors, coil, battery, ECU, ICV computer, ICM, and one other little control box thingy under the dash. Other than that there are no plugs. If worse comes to worse I suppose I could rob the plug from a newer model car, and then rewire all the car side wires into that plug so it will plug straight in to the engine harness plug.

I have sort of started my swap. I'm mostly waiting on parts to come in, and the guy I got my motor from to find me a few more things. I'm mostly cleaning up the motor right now. I installed my TMS/Jim Conforti chip last night, and I got my 11lb JB Racing aluminum flywheel today. My biggest concern right now is really just the motor mounts. I'd prefer to buy some so I don't screw anything up, but I hate to spend all that money on the 335i.de mounts. Anyways, enough of my rambling. Thanks again for all the help guys.

Posted: **Fri Aug 05, 2005 3:04 pm**

Jos wrote: Get Andy335 to put his ITB on and see what difference that makes

I havn't touched them for ages,i should get my finger out and fit them

Just posted this picy in another thread so......

You can get the BBTB's for the M30 and they work well like the M20 one's, it's the same bloke that does the M20 ones.

Alpina527"AT"aol.com

E30 Zone

Potential problems using 735i harness?

Potential problems using 735i harness?