E30 Zone

Bought my 325i at the beginning of the year. It wasnt to bad, mainly paint was awful and the rear arch needs some work but the rest of the car is rock solid, and it had a few goodies like Lsd and a few other bits and bobs that came with the car.




So i was building the car as my out an out track car. But after driving it around for a while it got very hot and I had some of the usual mayo under the oil cap. So off the road it came, and I started to strip it down, with the intention of running some bike carbs and a lairy cam.

However after alot of reserch and fettling I chose to go with TB's and megasquirt. So seeing Alex's set up for sale i bought those and found myself some ms.




When i picked everything up from Alex he had a Twinturbo set up there aswell....It really didnt take much convincing me and I bought the whole lot. Everything bar cylinder head.

After speaking to Ant @ A-tech i decided to strip the block and rebuild the whole lot, I also decked the pistons (7mm) so I could turn the boost up.

Long story short I basically have got the craving for more power!
So I bought a big single turbo, managed to pick it up off a guy for £130, had it 500 miles and his car fell apart around it! Its a Super T70, but iv forgetten all the trim sizes.....
I also managed to pick up a 800mm intercooler for £50 from a friend who deals in Skylines and also picked the manifold up quite cheaply from a fellow zoner.



So here it is so far, the engine is all fully built apart from the inlet side and the head. Im waiting for a turbo cam and vernier pully to come through from Cat Cams. So as soon as that is all here I can then finish up the small bits like oil feeds and returns then bung it all in the car.














Sorry some of the photos are blurrey, I took them all on my phone

Although i need to pick Ants brain about the Megasquirt!

What do you guys all think?

Phill

Looking good.

Wastegatew placement is perfect for performance, the flow is excellent and should perform well.

Hope that manifold holds up, they rust real quick, or so they tell me over on e30tech.

Inlet manifold could do with the inlet being opened up to spread the flow well over all six, you may find you get some starvation at the far end, something too look into I suppose.

Good work tho!

the more i look at turbos, the more i think i should do it. this is a great project

keep the detailed pics coming and good luck.

Thanks very much guys. Fozzy so wastegate will be fine where it is? I thought i was going to have to move it to on the manifold like I see most.
Yea I think im going to plate up the inlets on the inlet manifold and work up something so it feeds into the end of it rather then the side.

You reckon using some exhaust paint might help prolong the life of the manifold?

Thanks again guys for the comments!

Phill172 wrote:You reckon using some exhaust paint might help prolong the life of the manifold?

I was going to suggest that and then get some exhaust wrap to save on heat too.


is that one of the ebay mani's?

http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/BMW-E30-323-325-3 ... 286.c0.m14

The guy i bought it off importet it from the states, and apprently its a proper one.....although, i dont know so bit of a gamble!

Nice garrett you've got there mate

Bit bigger than mine

I thought it looked like one of them Egay manifolds for a start as well Ric


Now you've taken 7mm from the piston crown, what's the CR your left with???
I've been discussing this with my machine shop Re my 2.8 turbo build i'm starting.


Keep the pics coming as i'll be watching this thread closely

Phill172 wrote:Thanks very much guys. Fozzy so wastegate will be fine where it is? I thought i was going to have to move it to on the manifold like I see most.
Yea I think im going to plate up the inlets on the inlet manifold and work up something so it feeds into the end of it rather then the side.

You reckon using some exhaust paint might help prolong the life of the manifold?

Thanks again guys for the comments!

Wastegate should would really well there, the flow is the same into the turbo as it is the wastegate, it's be responsive and work well, it's in an ideal place. Having the WG run off at 90'c or more isn't great, mine does a 90 and then straight out through the WG and screamer pipe.

Open the end up and weld on a 3 inch stub, then you can use 3 inch charge pipes everywhere, it can be done, mine has.

VHT paint and exhaust wrap it, however the design will make wrapping it a total PITA!

IIRC there are two qualities of those manifolds, cheap and nasty and cheap but thicker bore pipework.

Fozz.

Thanks Dave, iv already seen a T4 i want, friends of mine who run a Skyline Performance company, Rising Sun Performance, have a HKS T51R laying about that i think could be interesting!

Iv got it written down at the workshop, i did it such a long time ago, i think the cr is about 7.8 .1 but i did work it out a long time ago!

Ant from a-tech proposed the idea to me about decking the pistons. But i also found out you can actually use Skyline Pistons which would drop the cr to around 7.1. But im not sure if that would work on a 2.8.

Ill be getting some much better pictures next week when im back up there.

What turbo/specs you running on yours and what you hoping to get power wise?

I really dont know what ill be getting, iv got some 47lbs injectors on the way, Cat cam, and running about 1 bar to 1.2/1.3 bar depending on how the engine takes it.....

any ideas anyone?

Yea i was thinking about that, theres plenty of space to weld onto the i/m. It would make running the charge pipes from the cooler a lot easier too!

Yea well i thought i could just take it to one of those gift wrapping places at christmas...
The quality of the manifold is pretty good, looks like someone has taken some real time an effort into the welds and fitments...
ill paint it up an wrap it then, may take quite a while but be worth it i guess.

Any issues on the oil cooling side of things?

Not really, it'll heat up quicker as in when having it. I lowered my running temps using the stat to give a greater margin of play.

If you can get a bigger rad in there, then do, can't hurt really.

If you use a later model rad you can lose the water res too.

Fozz.

fozzymonster wrote: Inlet manifold could do with the inlet being opened up to spread the flow well over all six, you may find you get some starvation at the far end, something too look into I suppose.

Or move the inlet to the centre of the manifold/plenum.

oakey wrote:

fozzymonster wrote: Inlet manifold could do with the inlet being opened up to spread the flow well over all six, you may find you get some starvation at the far end, something too look into I suppose.

Or move the inlet to the centre of the manifold/plenum.

I think the issue will still be there also, it really needs to be a wedge shape, thinner at the far end, maybe a plate could be fitted to seperate the back three and ensure the area is larger for them, that might sort it.

Somewhere I saw that someone had rigged up there IM with a smoke machine and blew smoke/air through and measured the flow through the ports, that way you can be sure of the % of flow to each port.

It's poss a PITA to do but would give you facts as opposed to all our "thoughts".

I would have thought a local mig welder could mod that quite easy, it looks like a simple one to hack up, cut & shut.

I've got a cardboard one at home allready to be cut out of ali but I can't mig weld, so need to learn how before I spend money on some ali.

Thanks guys, i think yea well it would defently be more effiecent wedge shaped, as it will channel the air better into the last cylinders....ill have to draw a bit on it! yea i cant mig weld either which is a pain as the local fabrication shop did a really bad job on the last piece of work I gave them....

Iv got the later style radiator in there but im dumping the vicous fan too, got a nice electric one to sit on there.
Im getting panicky about it getting hot so iv picked myself up some more gauges and i think I will run the megasquirt touch screen jobby they do.

But as for the moment, iv got to get the basterding thing in there, trying to do it all right once so i dont have to do it all again...but I know for a fact ill be thinking more power...

Thanks for all your inputs guys keep them coming

If you're not in a desperate rush to get the plenum modded Phil, I can probably sort something out when you come to get the exhaust.

7mm off the crowns!!!!!! Crikey that sounds like a lot! Sounds like the crowns will be foil thin

some good info in this thread will help when i come to do mine

whats the problems with the egay manifolds? crap welding? crap material's? as ive thought about getting one and chopping it about abit make it stronger etc

would the design of them work well in theory, flow wise etc??

oakey wrote:

fozzymonster wrote: Inlet manifold could do with the inlet being opened up to spread the flow well over all six, you may find you get some starvation at the far end, something too look into I suppose.

Or move the inlet to the centre of the manifold/plenum.

That drawing i did for you is the most simplest way to average out all cylinders especially when boost is involved the first cylinder is what suffers the most not the last as mistakenly assumed.

ps that drawing was a highly top secret m.o.d development, do not loose it

Nice to see the Head finally getting used. I will be interesting to see the end result.

Ive now opted for saab turbo power (thanks ppc), far cheaper.

looking very nice!! how much power are you looking for?

Phill172 wrote:Thanks Dave, iv already seen a T4 i want, friends of mine who run a Skyline Performance company, Rising Sun Performance, have a HKS T51R laying about that i think could be interesting!


What turbo/specs you running on yours and what you hoping to get power wise?

I've got hold of a slightly upgraded T04E with a 0.83 hot side and 0.63 on the compressor IIRC

Looking at 8.3/8.4:1 CR with a tubular manifold(have a td log one from an M21 that's been modded to fit the M20head which i don't think i'll use now),Volvo intercooler which takes up the entire centre of the car, remote filter/oil cooler setup, SPEC st3 6 puck paddle clutch and thinking of bolting on a set of throttle bodies i've got lying here with 2 sets of injectors with ecu controlled switchover

I'll be happy if i see 450ish or there abouts

Going to tun DTA management with pro built loom,as i got it for the same price asa built up M/S.unit

I've already upgraded the brakes and suspension although i've just blown my wad on some 6 pots and bigger disks for the front and am currently trying to decide on what i'm gonna fit on the rear.

Haven't thought about the cam yet, but will invest in a vernier pulley
Bottom end is getting lightened and balanced(crank/rods/flywheel).
Well seasoned B20 block is getting bored out and wire ringed
Rods will get peened and possibly polished

Still trying to decide if i'll go for a through bolt setup or an ARP stud and nut kit(have a set of 12.9's)

To many decisions to make

Alex i would take you up on the offer of the inlet manifold! Im in no huge rush as Iv still got to get the M/S sorted and waiting on a few other bits too!

Oldroyds is that a 2.3 engine your putting in yours?

Rossle i dont know what power to expect actually, anything above 350bhp i will be over the moon with! anymore and i will be wetting my pants at the thought of driving it! As long as I can show up a few porsches at Santa pod i will be a happy man

Baddave that sounds like a very tasty engine build. Im on the hunt for all the brakes and suspension at the moment, but I have plenty of time to sort that as all my attention at the moment is on the engine!
Im really loving building it up I have learnt a hell of alot and I was surprised how much simpler building up the bottem end is compared to that i thought.

Although i do need to sort the clutch side of things too, i missed out on the 6 puck clutch that was for sale second hand, kicking myself about that one!

I have never been in a turbo E30 or even heard one that isnt on youtube, so I really am clueless as to what to expect!

Well ,, it´s going to be awesome is what it is.

350hp in 1200kg car with RWD , that´s a very solid recipy right there.
a 325i with about 320hp will finish 5th gear at 6500rpm no problem.

year the 2.3 b234r. i wont spam your thread, i wills start my own.
good luck

saab 4pot turbo its the right move,ive got a c20let in my e30(this should be on a diffarant thread)

haha no worries guys, well good luck with that one too oldroyds ill keep an eye out for the thread.

Again thanks guys for all the comments!

That manifold looks great! i would get/make a support to hold the turbo up though.

has anyone used these manifolds on RHD cars??

Chris.

thanks mate, yea im working on that at the moment! ill get some more pictures up soon

Time again for another Update, just picked up the clutch from Midnight (thanks mate) 6 puck paddle bla bla....
Hopefully next week I will be collect the 440cc injectors too

Just been on the Phone to Vac Motorsport out in the states. Top guys, I have my set of ARP studs and headgasket being shipped today so hoping the wont be to long until they get here!

So tonight the engines going in and the heads coming off again, well head will be coming off when the Cam arrives so i can build it up Cam, new headgasket and the studs.

Im still trying to get my head round everything else i need to do!

Megasquirt....(anyone want to do it??? )
Cooling
Fueling
Oil Cooling
Set up the feeds and return to the turbo
and all the other little bits!

Photos later tonight guys

You need to have the head and block refaced for the MLS to seal properly, may I suggest o-rings or pyramid rings, they stop blow through in between the layers in the gasket.

With regular metal gaskets like Cometics, you need a special finish (extra smooth, finish RA of 30 or less IIRC) to get a good seal, and most poeple use a copper spray or similar on them,

For years, most aftermarket gasket manufacturers have said surface finishes with a roughness average (RA) of anywhere from 55 to 110 microinches (60 to 125 RMS) are acceptable. The preferred range they have recommended is from 80 to 100 RA. Even so, as long as the surface finish on the head and block end up somewhere between the minimum smoothness and maximum roughness numbers, there should not be any cold sealing or durability problems with the head gasket.

But like everything else, these numbers have been changing. These recommendations were primarily for older cast iron heads on cast iron blocks. As castings have become lighter and less rigid, the need for smoother, flatter surfaces has become more important. Consequently, some aftermarket gasket manufacturers now recommend a surface finish of 30 to 110 RA for cast iron head and block combinations, with a preferred range of 60 to 100 RA for best results.

For aluminum heads, the numbers are even lower. The typical recommendation today for an aluminum head on an OHC bimetal engine is a surface finish of 30 to 60 RA, with the preferred range being from 50 to 60 RA, unless, of course, it is one of the Japanese engines already mentioned with the MLS steel head gaskets which requires an even smoother finish (typically 20 to 30 RA).

Spec 3 clutch is on my shopping list, mines slipped in 2nd the other day so the end for the stock clutch is near.

Fozz.

fozzymonster wrote: Spec 3 clutch is on my shopping list, mines slipped in 2nd the other day so the end for the stock clutch is near.

Fozz.

IIRC CA-Automotive do them

For the stage 3 one (340Lb/Ft totque capacity) your looking at about £379

Might need a higher rated one then, randomdave knows a man who does custom clutches which are known to be awesome, not quite decided on which way to go yet.

Flywheel will need changing too, while I'm there. Solid guibo is needed too, mines shot...again.

The Spec stage 5 is listed at 479Lb/FT

sachs 618 plate an 6 puk clutch good for 550ft/lb torque easy mate, from ppf cost me bout 300 squid

Are you using the stock flywheel?

yep, totally no need for any lightning untill really really high power. i just had it skimmed and ballenced.