M50 turbos and reality check

[Gunni]

That's a derv turbo. Will never work properly

See,ive got a lot to learn

Isnt it more about the capacity derv engine the turbo is designed for? A similar capacity derv turbo will run out of puff too soon because the engine does not rev as high as a petrol, but if you chose a turbo from a 5 litre derv for example it wouldnt run out of steam as early, right?

you choose a turbo based on it´s dimensions and not from where it came from.
But a 5liter diesel turbo putting out 250hp in diesel format will work nicely on a 2.5 petrol going for 400hp-ish

[eko]

It would be perfect for a 300hp setup with excellent low end.

What injectors would be needed to go with this and what car from?
Also is it best to buy a ready made kit for the oil feed/returns pipes or are custom bits needed?

oil feed will be based on what turbo you use, also custom can be cheaper then ready made if you know where to shop (hydraulic supply shop)

I think 32lbs injectors should do just fine and a bit more, you can find them in all kinds of applications.

Ok so ill look out for some 32lb injectors.

Was planning on buying a new turbo but cant afford one untill maybe December.
I planned in this time to get the car M50ed and up and running well.
Would be nice to prepare the engine first with the turbo plumbing which I was hoping I could just blank off untill I need them hence me asking about fittings etc.
Any links with info/pics of where the sump needs to be drilled/tapped same with where to take feed from on the engine?

Oh and I have a choice of 2 engines I could fit.
First is a early M50 non vanos which runs faultless but hasd quite high mileage or a late M50 vanos which again is a lovely engine and has much lower mileage.

[Gunni]

fit either one.

You can run a NA engine with intercooler and all if that´s what your thinking.

weld a bung to the oil pan if you must use it and make sure that the bung ends at a higher level then where the block/pan meet, I´d do the chain cover like so



Take your oil feed from the oil pressure sender location.

[eko]

fit either one.

You can run a NA engine with intercooler and all if that´s what your thinking.

weld a bung to the oil pan if you must use it and make sure that the bung ends at a higher level then where the block/pan meet, I´d do the chain cover like so



Take your oil feed from the oil pressure sender location.

Gunni what int/ext pipe should I use to weld onto the timing cover?

[staley_turbo]

fit either one.

You can run a NA engine with intercooler and all if that´s what your thinking.

weld a bung to the oil pan if you must use it and make sure that the bung ends at a higher level then where the block/pan meet, I´d do the chain cover like so



Take your oil feed from the oil pressure sender location.

Why did i not weld mine there

[eko]

You gone into the sump then Staley?

[staley_turbo]

Yes lol not fuuny

[Gunni]

keep the drain about 18-20mm. The bigger the better.

[Supafly]

I'm putting an m52b28 in my e30 and although I feel that they are a nice engine for the e30, I would only class it as a starting point. I think all e30's should start at this power level, a very nice balance.

I would however like to be up at just over 300bhp and was thinking of a hx35 (internally gated?) and low boost (car is lhd so exhaust should be a little easier). The questions I have are:-

Can I acheive this bone stock, or as some people do, drain everything and swap to arp studs(original head gasket)?

Any idea how much knock/det the standard block threads will take e.g if tuning and it dets for a second will it be instant scrap?

Any factory based ecu solutions?

I know it's better to swap to an m50 block but I don't want to go down that route for a daily driver. If it's not feasible (or relatively cost effective) on the alloy block then I will leave it as is until I have another car to use as a daily. Then look for an m50 block.

Sorry for all the newbie questions, I'm just trying to see whats involved in getting over 300 on a m52.

[Gunni]

M52B28 can do 300hp 100% standard with injectors large enough

Factory B28 is not so nice to tune, but there are ways around it,
a standalone being one.

[Supafly]

Thanks for the reply.

Are the ways around it 'trade secrets' or easy to find out..??

Standalone systems tend to start adding up in cost. I don't mind investing time, but money is at a premium at the moment.

So thinking out loud and as a beginner. The factory ecu would need to 'see' the extra air coming in, or maybe change the maf to one that has the same output for relative increase in airflow.

Then matching injectors to suit the extra air, but that would probably mean it would be too rich off boost, unless the factory ecu can adjust based on lambda readings.

Ignition timing would need to be modified or optimised, and then set up on the rich side if no knock control can be added....

lol Just typing the above has made me laugh and is telling me that standalone will be better, but has this potential bodgery been done before or is it possible?

Also, what are the preferred standalone systems and costs for an m52, and is vanos control available. Would all the driveability, part throttle etc maps be a pain to go through and set up?

Are there any good sources of information for me to read so I don't bug everyone with my questions ?

[gavster85]

all this turbo talk is teasing me lol i just want to get started already

[Gunni]

Thanks for the reply.

Are the ways around it 'trade secrets' or easy to find out..??

Standalone systems tend to start adding up in cost. I don't mind investing time, but money is at a premium at the moment.

So thinking out loud and as a beginner. The factory ecu would need to 'see' the extra air coming in, or maybe change the maf to one that has the same output for relative increase in airflow.

Then matching injectors to suit the extra air, but that would probably mean it would be too rich off boost, unless the factory ecu can adjust based on lambda readings.

Ignition timing would need to be modified or optimised, and then set up on the rich side if no knock control can be added....

lol Just typing the above has made me laugh and is telling me that standalone will be better, but has this potential bodgery been done before or is it possible?

Also, what are the preferred standalone systems and costs for an m52, and is vanos control available. Would all the driveability, part throttle etc maps be a pain to go through and set up?

Are there any good sources of information for me to read so I don't bug everyone with my questions ?

The B28 ecu lacks full support, changing MAF´s, changing injectors, changing when closed loop o2 control stops,
but fundamentally it can do whatever the MAF´s max(whichever MAF you´d use) reading makes power wise.

I tuned a M52B28 single vanos the other day using a VEMS ecu.
The owner had fitted a wasted spark coil not that it was needed. It went just fine and was easy enough to tune. Wiring it is a cake , or you can get a wiring adapter to suit so skip that step.

Overall at this point in time, a standalone makes it simpler to tune the B28

[eko]

Gunni you have PM.

[Supafly]

Thanks for the reply Gunni.
I've already started to read up a little on megasquirt but haven't looked at alternatives such as vems etc.
Looks like I've got a lot more reading to do before I contemplate bolting on a turbo! I think I'll learn some more first and then come bug everyone with more questions