the s50 that burt is selling in the parts section is a good engine for once, if i had space to repair it id be having the whole car off him.
i expect most of the problems come from the m badge on the car meaning it apeals to owners that are going to spank the shit out of it.
how to build a powerful 2.7? most powerful built?
Moderator: martauto
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HairyScreech
- Engaged to the E30 Zone
- Posts: 6265
- Joined: Sun Jan 21, 2007 11:00 pm
2.8 development thread http://www.e30zone.net/modules.php?name ... c&t=170822
m3.3.1 m20 thread - now running, chip needed - any volunteers?
http://www.e30zone.net/modules.php?name ... =viewtopic&
m3.3.1 m20 thread - now running, chip needed - any volunteers?
http://www.e30zone.net/modules.php?name ... =viewtopic&
Hmmm. I've seen PLENTY of scrap S50 engines where the big end shells have spun. It's due to the rod bolts stretching and the cap lifting at high rpm. These engines really do need a set of proper (i.e ARP) rod bolts.M5pilot wrote: How many S50's do we hear about that throw conrods or spin bearings? Cracked heads?....not many. Even the Vanos failures are simply down to people not maintaining them. t's not hard!
The Evo Vanos failures were due to the unit being poor quality British made rubbish (Rolls Royce). They're absolute junk, and when both the 3 litre and any common or garden M50/52 can do 150k without issue the Evo units looks pretty poor. Nothing to do with maintenance - they were crap when new. By changing the oil more often and farting about replacing the cover bolts they can be made to last longer but they are far from bulletproof.
Hi 1an
if you are looking for performance of this nature i am sure Ant can help, Ant has, under my permission to sell my genuine Alpina C2 2.7 block, pistons and brand new genuine Alpina Rings,and a lot of other ods and sods,FREE BUMP, what can be said, if you are after whatever power figure you have in your mind, Ant can deliver, or advise, the choice is yours, please realise tho dude, that power is nothing without control, and all that you achieve with your new powerplant must be complimented with the schemetrics of every thing else within your new found power, But you now that any way,, suppose its make's it a little more fun, whatever you decide, it is never cheap, but with a fantastic engine builder like i chose, was more than VALUE FOR MONEY, as he achieved my ultimate goal,
I am currently still running my engine in, and i must say that although the car is running at 383 BHP, she is more than i expected at 1 bar boost, especially when the engine has been blueprinted for 2 bar, (ohhhh doooo daaaaah)
Any way, Engine mods or performance shall always be lincked to the amount of money you are prepared to spend,
But always remember the old saying
THERE IS NO COMPARISON TO CUBIC CAPACITY.
UNLESS YO GOT A HUGE FOOOOOOOOOKIN TURBO
INIT
if you are looking for performance of this nature i am sure Ant can help, Ant has, under my permission to sell my genuine Alpina C2 2.7 block, pistons and brand new genuine Alpina Rings,and a lot of other ods and sods,FREE BUMP, what can be said, if you are after whatever power figure you have in your mind, Ant can deliver, or advise, the choice is yours, please realise tho dude, that power is nothing without control, and all that you achieve with your new powerplant must be complimented with the schemetrics of every thing else within your new found power, But you now that any way,, suppose its make's it a little more fun, whatever you decide, it is never cheap, but with a fantastic engine builder like i chose, was more than VALUE FOR MONEY, as he achieved my ultimate goal,
I am currently still running my engine in, and i must say that although the car is running at 383 BHP, she is more than i expected at 1 bar boost, especially when the engine has been blueprinted for 2 bar, (ohhhh doooo daaaaah)
Any way, Engine mods or performance shall always be lincked to the amount of money you are prepared to spend,
But always remember the old saying
THERE IS NO COMPARISON TO CUBIC CAPACITY.
UNLESS YO GOT A HUGE FOOOOOOOOOKIN TURBO
INIT
Gadjit, cheers for the heads up on what you have etc but i tihnk your going to be wanting alot of money for them parts though well more than i have to be honest for genuine Alpina parts,gadjit wrote:Hi 1an
if you are looking for performance of this nature i am sure Ant can help, Ant has, under my permission to sell my genuine Alpina C2 2.7 block, pistons and brand new genuine Alpina Rings,and a lot of other ods and sods,FREE BUMP, what can be said, if you are after whatever power figure you have in your mind, Ant can deliver, or advise, the choice is yours, please realise tho dude, that power is nothing without control, and all that you achieve with your new powerplant must be complimented with the schemetrics of every thing else within your new found power, But you now that any way,, suppose its make's it a little more fun, whatever you decide, it is never cheap, but with a fantastic engine builder like i chose, was more than VALUE FOR MONEY, as he achieved my ultimate goal,
I am currently still running my engine in, and i must say that although the car is running at 383 BHP, she is more than i expected at 1 bar boost, especially when the engine has been blueprinted for 2 bar, (ohhhh doooo daaaaah)
Any way, Engine mods or performance shall always be lincked to the amount of money you are prepared to spend,
But always remember the old saying
THERE IS NO COMPARISON TO CUBIC CAPACITY.
UNLESS YO GOT A HUGE FOOOOOOOOOKIN TURBO
INIT
i would love to just give my car to Ant with a nice wedge of cash but i want to build it myself.
Audi S3 and Racing Puma track car.
Then you should not be afraid to ask questions like you did with this thread.
Without knowledge the best you can do is guess
Without knowledge the best you can do is guess
Gunni this is precisely why i have put this thread up, and several people have pm'd me advising etc on how they have done it and links to e30tech with alot of very good information.
Audi S3 and Racing Puma track car.
How's your German? This page has a lot of info regarding 2.7 builds (and general M20 info):
http://truemer.cfmx.de/rubrik.cfm?cid=10 (www.e30.de is the front end)
You can run through Google translate:
http://translate.google.com/translate?u ... n&ie=UTF-8
http://truemer.cfmx.de/rubrik.cfm?cid=10 (www.e30.de is the front end)
You can run through Google translate:
http://translate.google.com/translate?u ... n&ie=UTF-8
If your on a budget and would like to put it together yourself Ian then a 2.8 will be best for your needs. No machining apart from the crank pulley spacer and just the cost of a crank, £150-250 and the 320 rods £50.1an wrote:i would love to just give my car to Ant with a nice wedge of cash but i want to build it myself.
No machining the block or vernier pulley that a 2.7 would require.
M power = goodKaran wrote:m-power is strong innit...
Turbo = good
turbo M power = Good^2
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HairyScreech
- Engaged to the E30 Zone
- Posts: 6265
- Joined: Sun Jan 21, 2007 11:00 pm
corectionGunni wrote:M power = goodKaran wrote:m-power is strong innit...
Turbo = good
turbo M power = Good^2
M power = good
Turbo = good
turbo M power = Chuck Norris
2.8 development thread http://www.e30zone.net/modules.php?name ... c&t=170822
m3.3.1 m20 thread - now running, chip needed - any volunteers?
http://www.e30zone.net/modules.php?name ... =viewtopic&
m3.3.1 m20 thread - now running, chip needed - any volunteers?
http://www.e30zone.net/modules.php?name ... =viewtopic&
i have a budget but im willing to spend it if i get the results. machining work isnt a problem as its all going to be lightened and balenced which ever way i go, but using the eta block, eta crank, erly pistons and my late head will give me the results i want to start of with as far as im aware.bss325i wrote:If your on a budget and would like to put it together yourself Ian then a 2.8 will be best for your needs. No machining apart from the crank pulley spacer and just the cost of a crank, £150-250 and the 320 rods £50.1an wrote:i would love to just give my car to Ant with a nice wedge of cash but i want to build it myself.
No machining the block or vernier pulley that a 2.7 would require.
Audi S3 and Racing Puma track car.
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e30m3s50b32
- E30 Zone Newbie
- Posts: 47
- Joined: Thu Oct 18, 2007 11:00 pm
A lot of club racers with m20 2.5 spend a substantial ammount on their engines , and a few I know of which run ITB's and mildly worked heads with a cam make 220bhp, from a 2.5. but thats doesn't come cheap.
ITB's £1000
head work with cam kit and new rockers valves etc £1500
management £500
exhuast and manifold £1000
Rough prices, some items may be cheaper some will be more but this is hardly DIY work. Labour to actually assemble the engine will in reality not save you much at all.
Going for the 2.7 oprion will only cost you more money for not much more of a gain and in my limited experince an engine that is not as rev happy as a 2.5.
m20's have power to be found but with head and cam work, BBR racing in the mid 90's offered the following
moddified cylinder head, camshaft, free flow air filter, stainless steel exaust system and a BBR chip/remap to suit the upgrades, and power was listed at 224bhp ( I find that optomistic but the m20 head and cam can relase a real 30bhp) As a DIY kit it was £2040 in April1996. The cylinder head and camshaft were £1500. Add 12 years inflation and thats over £2000 into days money. Anyway, the fact is power is in the head and cam with a management system to run it and remove the restrictive AFM.
Your best bet is to go for the head and cam, and work them as much as possible and bolt that on to your 2.5, with a good exhuast manifold and see the gains, then progress to a 2.7/2.8 if you feel the need.
Power cost money, and you will not save much as its all specialist work. Labour to assemble the engine is a fraction of what the hard wear and machine work will cost. Going by what i have read you want what in reality is a £5000 build, which means no budget in m20 terms as there is not much you can to to take it over 250bhp NA unless you have got very deep pockets and want an all singing and dancing race engine?
Personaly, i would consider the m52 2.8, with a m50 2.5 inlet manifold and re mapped ecu, then you are looking at 230bhp , usable torque through out the rev range and its half the cost.
ITB's £1000
head work with cam kit and new rockers valves etc £1500
management £500
exhuast and manifold £1000
Rough prices, some items may be cheaper some will be more but this is hardly DIY work. Labour to actually assemble the engine will in reality not save you much at all.
Going for the 2.7 oprion will only cost you more money for not much more of a gain and in my limited experince an engine that is not as rev happy as a 2.5.
m20's have power to be found but with head and cam work, BBR racing in the mid 90's offered the following
moddified cylinder head, camshaft, free flow air filter, stainless steel exaust system and a BBR chip/remap to suit the upgrades, and power was listed at 224bhp ( I find that optomistic but the m20 head and cam can relase a real 30bhp) As a DIY kit it was £2040 in April1996. The cylinder head and camshaft were £1500. Add 12 years inflation and thats over £2000 into days money. Anyway, the fact is power is in the head and cam with a management system to run it and remove the restrictive AFM.
Your best bet is to go for the head and cam, and work them as much as possible and bolt that on to your 2.5, with a good exhuast manifold and see the gains, then progress to a 2.7/2.8 if you feel the need.
Power cost money, and you will not save much as its all specialist work. Labour to assemble the engine is a fraction of what the hard wear and machine work will cost. Going by what i have read you want what in reality is a £5000 build, which means no budget in m20 terms as there is not much you can to to take it over 250bhp NA unless you have got very deep pockets and want an all singing and dancing race engine?
Personaly, i would consider the m52 2.8, with a m50 2.5 inlet manifold and re mapped ecu, then you are looking at 230bhp , usable torque through out the rev range and its half the cost.