where can i find one of these???

[e30-EVN]

seen this at a car show today in a z4 alpina. 3.4 24v single vanos (the single vanos shocked me)

what i want to know is this, can i fit one of these in my e30 in place of the m52?
what engine is this (code)

this is the engine in question


and this was the car


im aware this has an electric throttle, but using my inlet and throttlebody would overcome this issue.

any advise welcomed here as they guy i was chatting to told me this engine cracks 300bhp which is where i wannt to be

[e30-EVN]

ok so ive done some digging and its an e85b34 engine.... but they seem to be like rocking horse shit to get hold of

[glenn]

e85 is the code for the model, ant.
the engine code is m54b34

[e30-EVN]

thanks Glen mate, that will help when trying to search. do you know much about these?

any canbus ect to worry about? i know they are single vanos as i was looking over one earlier. im really tempted as the exhaust mani's look the same as mine, and i could use my inlet and throttlebody to keep cable throttle.

[glenn]

dan will know a lot more about this engine than me mate
the ecu will be full of can-bus happiness.
it can be written out though

[Rav335uk]

Dan's running the 3.2 version of that

[DanThe]

Rare indeed, cheapest ive seen one of those donks for sale is 3 bags. Very few people know how to stop the ECU looking for the signals, which is why they usually ask £800 + for the service.
Swapping the throttle is not a way forward

[e30-EVN]

Is this a service you can offer or arrange when time is right?
And how would I go about throttle? As I know you have the 3.2 version of this engine and you have it running in yours

Also one concern is, is the e34 sump deep enough to accomadate the longer stroke?

Engine would mount in the same way
Mani's would be same
E36 328 gearbox obv needed for the grunt
Obv e30 m3 dif for gearing ect

Any pointers Dan? Reason being, I wanted to charge my m52 to crack 300 horses but..... 2.5k for the kit then after I fit it the car would then need to go to be mapped.
A mate of mine just charged his vr6 (in a mk2 golf) and after paying for and fitting the kit it cost him another 350 to be set up. So there's nearly 3k anyway, but with this it would be 300 horse natural and reliable

[e30-EVN]

Also, could you do loom on this?

I see people going forced induction and s50 ect but not seen this! (Except yours), I want reliable, natural power and not something everyone has because an m52'd e30 is no special thing anymore and that's loosing its appeal a bit now cos to many are trying it

[DanThe]

I dont know what management these use so cant say for sure

Mine is pretty much just an M52 engine so works the same as a 2.8 would, cable throttle as standard

[goosiegander]

Also, could you do loom on this?

I see people going forced induction and s50 ect but not seen this! (Except yours), I want reliable, natural power and not something everyone has because an m52'd e30 is no special thing anymore and that's loosing its appeal a bit now cos to many are trying it

At the risk of nae-saying almost everything has been done before.

A 3.2 s50 is still a very nice thing and there is bottomless info and support from the right people, its all about the workmanship that goes into the conversion.

for the money you would spend just finding 'wonder-donk' either go s50b32 for 320bhp or if weight bothers you buy a complete s14 package, don't get me wrong, this engine has kudos but there is certainly more bang for buck to be had...

[e30-EVN]

I agree in part with what you're saying there mate, its the "not been done" bit that appeals to me on this one.

How much heavier is an s50 than the m52 variety?

And although s14 is a beautiful engine I simply cannot be 2 cylinders short lol

[leeparkes]

There was one of these chariots at Gaydon last year.



Could be the same car??

[DanThe]

Why would you fit an S50 when you could have that?

[e30-EVN]

No this one didn't have that sexual looking strut brace Lee...... When I saw it though I had a lightbulb moment and couldn't stop thinking about it all day

[leeparkes]

Did Barry have one of these donks in an E46 cab? I remember something about the head gasket being a bum splitting fortune.

No idea how heavy the S50 is but ive heard many say its a fair old weight.

[DanThe]

Yep, same as Barry's cabby, S50 is about 25kg heavier than an M50, this donk is an Iron M52 block so about the same weight as an M50

[e30-EVN]

Its an interesting one boyos that's for sure

[Jhonno]

Why would you fit an S50 when you could have that?

M Powerz FTW.

[e30-EVN]

You say more power jhonno but I've always been of the understanding that its the 3.0 s50 is the one to fit as the 3.2 is arguably the weaker engine. So 3.0 s50 is 280 yet this is 300....... Plus there's the argument that although not as many have s50'd e30's as there are m52 (and the numbers are growing making it less of an elite group so to speak). There is "none" with this (yet)

[Jhonno]

The 3.2 being weaker is basically nonsense. ARP's and shells, job jobbed. A well looked after and setup 3.2 will make near 321.

The 3.0's are 286, mine made 297.

[bss325i]

The engine in question is an Alpina engine used in the E46 3 series B3S and the E85 Z4 Roadster S.

The roadster S's only came in Manual format and the RHD UK spec B3S's were all switchtronic auto.

The Engine as mentioned is based on an Iron block M52 aka the S52 used on US spec E36 M3's and shares nothing with the M54.

They are 3346cc and everything is custom on the bottom end, crank rods and pistons. The give 305bhp and 267lbft.

The most common problem they suffer from is head gasket issues and a head gasket (which is unique and Alpina only) is £300!

All the parts used to fit an M52 to an E360 can be used ie the E34 sump, E36 mounts etc but as mentioned the electronic side of this will be expensive/tricky to sort as they are E46 based and the DME (engine ECU) will be looking other control units on the PT CAN like the EGS (auto gearbox), DSC (traction/ABS) and there will also be EWS dramas.

Using an E36 M52 Siemens DME and throttle body with cable will loose you power, the Alpina "fly by wire" throttle body is massive!

Using the original DME, loom and throttle body is a must and if there are people out there who can sort the PT CAN issues on S54 DME's then sorting the Alpina one shouldn't be a problem i would have thought. They are all Siemens DME's after all.

The engine is the ultimate incarnation of the M5x family and would be epic in an E30!

Here some pics and a little info on my old B3S.

http://www.e30zone.net/modules.php?name ... hlight=b3s

[DanThe]

Barry do the pistons poke out the top of the bore much? A friend has a 3.0 B3 and the headgasket has gone twice, second time one of the pistons was damaged as they poke out

[e30-EVN]

thanks for the info Barry, so it would crack the 300 mark indeed. so im not to far off the mark when i was thinking i could re-use some of the parts used to mount my current engine ect
ive been informed that the m50 inlet manifold can flow well enough to cope with 500bhp..?... so if i used an over size throttlebody would this be feasable or would it still loose a bit of power?

seems im going to have to have a look around for some software wiz to see if the canbus and ews can be flashed out. Danthe can ews delete m52 ecu's (he did my current one) with no ill effects or running issues. i know the canbus is the worst offender here though.

im wondering if the folks in germany who did glens v10 ecu would be able to work their magic on this one the same way....?....
might be worth a pm to him, unless he see's this first

so providing the canbus can be delt with, im not to far off with this one then, its been in my head since i saw the z4 at the show.! 5.1 to 60 in the z4 - id imagine low 4's in an e30

[glenn]

seems im going to have to have a look around for some software wiz to see if the canbus and ews can be flashed out. Danthe can ews delete m52 ecu's (he did my current one) with no ill effects or running issues. i know the canbus is the worst offender here though.

im wondering if the folks in germany who did glens v10 ecu would be able to work their magic on this one the same way....?....
might be worth a pm to him, unless he see's this first

he is away on holidays until the 20th.
i'll speak to him once he gets back, but i would imagine this would be no problem for him.

[e30-EVN]

you saw it before i could fire the pm off

thank you Glen, im very interested in this

[glenn]

i've just spoken to him....

he's said he can do it, no problem, for sure.
i think he said the ecu was the siemens ms43.

[bss325i]

Barry do the pistons poke out the top of the bore much? A friend has a 3.0 B3 and the headgasket has gone twice, second time one of the pistons was damaged as they poke out

I cant remember tbh.

[glenn]

Swapping the throttle is not a way forward

And how would I go about throttle?

keep the electronic throttle........its only 6 wires

[e30-EVN]

ah, that easy ay Glen... hmmm. this is getting better