ECU remapping of Custom Engines

[Gunni]

Adding injectors is easy,
and it´s the solution I expected.

I could draw up a wiring diagram of the setup it´s that easy.
I was trying to get a uni-q competitor to design a system that would not require other injectors and would
allow changing the injectors and still run the stock system, thus allow for ANY fuel requirement needed and change timing as well so a stock ecu with a piggyback could run any forced induction or perfomance setup.

I´m still waiting on them.

[ShepsEvo3]

I was trying to get a uni-q competitor to design a system that would not require other injectors and would
allow changing the injectors and still run the stock system, thus allow for ANY fuel requirement needed and change timing as well so a stock ecu with a piggyback could run any forced induction or perfomance setup.

I´m still waiting on them.

Umm... I don't understand why you are waiting or even asking if the piggyback can do what you ask.. so far, all my turbo and supercharged conversions with the old Unichip run well on much larger than stock injectors without the need for a second set of injectors. As long as you keep the same impedance there should be no problems for the standard ECU. You can turn the fueling down with the Unichip as you can with a stand alone. Its very old school now. However, the later UniQ has much higher resolution as to tuning strength for fueling allowing for a pretty much infinate range of whatever fuel is required at any point.

On the course, Dastek recommended using extra injectors rather than swopping stock injectors for larger injectors. They have thier reasons and sometimes is the better way to go, but I'll do it anyway thats required and will give what the customer wants as long as its the best way

[Gunni]

when you turn the fuel down , what does the oem ecu think is happening?
yea it thinks there is less "load" that means more advanced timing.
That causes a problem with forced induction engines,
I´m talking going from 150cc injectors to 450cc injectors(170-400hp), the oem ecu at 100kpa would never see more then
30% of the original maximum load(100kpa for instance), and a timing value to suit(instead of the 25° which is about stock for a OEM ecu, the timing will be more like 36-40° )

piggybacks are a crude tool, I´ve tuned a very healthy 325i turbo with a SMT6 one,

You know my point so there really is no more need to discuss this

fuelling affects timing so you have to adjust timing ALONG with fuel everytime you adjust fuel.
rather then seperately.

[kabeer]

The skill is in the mapping to make it run properly and safely.

Good write-up M5pilot, also helpful feed backs from Paul.
BTW, Any zoner have gone thru MAP-ECU2 setup on a non-stock M30 ??

i'm still gathering info on 'mapping' and my skills are on KG leval...

[UweM3]

MAF tuning is SO easy if your tuning the ecu directly.
It´s ridiculous really

What do you do? Just alter numbers in the ecu program and power run to see what effect the changes have made?

Inside the ECU there are

MAF curves, a "fuel table" which is actually just a lambda table or correction table from lambda 1.
ecu does all the actual fuel calculations behind the scenes.
So in effect all you have to adjust are the lambda values you want at a particular load , which is measured in kg´s/s.
and it will become that,

what does the lambda table you mentioned do above three quarter to full throttle?
There is no unlimited Lambda correction window which is able to pull the values up and down. And as far as I know the good old motronic runs AN as soon you hit WOT.

[Gunni]

those values are not closed loop.

The ecu is able to calculate 14.7:1 AFR from the MAF voltage and MAF scalar, then to run 13:1 it just does

calculated PW * (14,7/13) = final pulsewidth.

it doesn´t need to know the lambda values to run calculated lambda values, also all motronics after early motronic 1.3 have adaptability, so if you where to form a vacuum leak, and your O2 is working it will start to try and re adjust,
when it has, the change will become a global change, i.e the fuelling will be combensated both in closed loop and open loop.

as soon as you unhook the battery the compensation is lost.

[ShepsEvo3]

when you turn the fuel down , what does the oem ecu think is happening?

That depends on what signals you are using to either manipulate the ECU into doing what you want it to, or extending/decreasing injector times without the ECU knowing.

yea it thinks there is less "load" that means more advanced timing.
That causes a problem with forced induction engines,
I´m talking going from 150cc injectors to 450cc injectors(170-400hp), the oem ecu at 100kpa would never see more then
30% of the original maximum load(100kpa for instance), and a timing value to suit(instead of the 25° which is about stock for a OEM ecu, the timing will be more like 36-40° )

I agree with all that.. and see below

piggybacks are a crude tool, I´ve tuned a very healthy 325i turbo with a SMT6 one,

Yes, most piggybacks are crude, I know of another but won't say without upsetting anyone from another M3 forum. Unfortunately there are some die hards who don't like change

You know my point so there really is no more need to discuss this

fuelling affects timing so you have to adjust timing ALONG with fuel everytime you adjust fuel.
rather then seperately.

I know I don't need to discuss but, I feel things are being said here that does not apply to the Unichip, especially the UniQ.

I agree that if you adjust fueling, the ECU thinks you have a different load and so then adjusts ignition timing to suit, as you say, advance timing if it sees less "load" and it is necessary to correct. Thats why we can map ignition and fuel together at the same time live. We can also map boost at the same time also. We do not need to map fuel, then ignition, then boost or whatever you want. We do it simultaneously all in one go.

It takes a good dyno operator/mapper to know whats going to happen to ignition before its happening.

We also have a few ways for manipulating lambda with NA cars converted to FI.

As I said previously, I am NOT saying the UniQ is "the" definitive answer to all tuning, but its well worth a look and can't be dismissed (unless yous a die hard ). What you actually get in that little box is actually stunning value for money.

[ShepsEvo3]

when it has, the change will become a global change, i.e the fuelling will be combensated both in closed loop and open loop.

And timing

[UweM3]

those values are not closed loop.

The ecu is able to calculate 14.7:1 AFR from the MAF voltage and MAF scalar, then to run 13:1 it just does

calculated PW * (14,7/13) = final pulsewidth.

it doesn´t need to know the lambda values to run calculated lambda values, also all motronics after early motronic 1.3 have adaptability, so if you where to form a vacuum leak, and your O2 is working it will start to try and re adjust,
when it has, the change will become a global change, i.e the fuelling will be combensated both in closed loop and open loop.

as soon as you unhook the battery the compensation is lost.

Aha! thanks for explaining. Are you able to read a chip out? If I send you a bin file, can you print all the values out? Maybe we should just make sure we speak of the same thing as I believe the Motronic on the M3 is different? this is what I have been told (for the M3): Above 3/4 throttle and 5000 rpm (ish) the ECU goes in open loop and all corrections are ignored. I could see this on my WBO gauge as well. Any enrichments stayed rich and vice versa lean. There was no compensation visible.

[ShepsEvo3]

Uwe, I'm not sure "all" compensations are ignored as I've seen the ECU pull timing out and add fuel when the coolant temps raise over something like 87-90C when I've mapped Motoronic equipped cars, including M3's.

[Gunni]

those values are not closed loop.

The ecu is able to calculate 14.7:1 AFR from the MAF voltage and MAF scalar, then to run 13:1 it just does

calculated PW * (14,7/13) = final pulsewidth.

it doesn´t need to know the lambda values to run calculated lambda values, also all motronics after early motronic 1.3 have adaptability, so if you where to form a vacuum leak, and your O2 is working it will start to try and re adjust,
when it has, the change will become a global change, i.e the fuelling will be combensated both in closed loop and open loop.

as soon as you unhook the battery the compensation is lost.

Aha! thanks for explaining. Are you able to read a chip out? If I send you a bin file, can you print all the values out? Maybe we should just make sure we speak of the same thing as I believe the Motronic on the M3 is different? this is what I have been told (for the M3): Above 3/4 throttle and 5000 rpm (ish) the ECU goes in open loop and all corrections are ignored. I could see this on my WBO gauge as well. Any enrichments stayed rich and vice versa lean. There was no compensation visible.

I´ve been doing all I can to not go into that part of tuning,
unfortunately I may just be there soon,
I really have tried my absolute best to NOT learn HEX and assembly code but as things are, I just might freaking understand it sooner then I want.

I belive all the M3´s have motronic 1.1

[UweM3]

Uwe, I'm not sure "all" compensations are ignored as I've seen the ECU pull timing out and add fuel when the coolant temps raise over something like 87-90C when I've mapped Motoronic equipped cars, including M3's.

With all I meant all lambda compensation. The 1.1 Motronic has no diagnose facility, so I guess there maybe also different programms running compared to the 1.3? (i.e. no self learning)