Hartge H36 Project (E30 M3 with S38 M5 engine)

Show off your pride and joy here
Post Reply
Theo
Old Skooler
Old Skooler
Posts: 10698
Joined: Wed Jun 01, 2005 10:00 pm
Location: Kent

Thu Nov 27, 2008 3:06 pm

Thought I would start a new thread on this H36 I've bought. Needs reshelling after a large side-on impact into a tree. I took delivery of it this morning - in three parts! The front, the back, and the roof, with the damaged side and part of the floorpan retained for the insurers.

Here's the spec

S38B36 engine from an e34 m5 (exhaust manifold, cylinder head, camshafts, ECU and sump all modified by Hartge)
Hartge Kevlar bonnet
Hartge Mono wiper
3.73LSD with 40% lockup
Modified propshaft and gearbox output flange
Hartge ARB's 3 way adjustable front and rear - 29.5mm front 18mm rear
Additional alloy fuel tank, total capacity 100l
Hartge 280km/h speedo
Hartge aux gauges, engine oil temp, oil pressure and diff oil temp
Hartge rear strut brace
Hartge valved Bilstein shocks and Hartge springs
Hartge uprated brake system
Sport Evo bootspoiler with adjustable gurney flap
Sport Evo brake ducts
Recaro leather interior with leather doorcards
Hartge 16" wheels (7.5J front 8.5j rear)
A/C
OBC


A 'few' pics

As it was at the breakers
Image

exhaust system
Image

Image

Gearbox output
Image

Front ARB
Image

Manifold
Image

Fuel tank and pipework
Image

Gauge cluster
Image

Hartge speedo
Image

Dead pedal
Image

Diff
Image

Image

ECU

Image

Image

Rear brakes

Image

Will post up more as I go along. Plan is to find either an M3 shell or complete car and reshell it, but I think i'm going to get the thing fully fragmented first.
bmw-mad
Trader
Trader
Posts: 2627
Joined: Fri Mar 02, 2007 11:00 pm
Location: Birmingham

Thu Nov 27, 2008 3:22 pm

Its not that bad is it :mad:

You got yourself a whole load of good parts there

look forward to see the project keep us updated
Trise30rally
E30 Zone Regular
E30 Zone Regular
Posts: 383
Joined: Thu Oct 18, 2007 10:00 pm
Location: Jersey

Thu Nov 27, 2008 3:34 pm

Nice one, i am glad it is getting re-shelled, the thought of it getting broken for parts made me sad!

I heard from a bmw mechanic over here that Bmw still have some m3 shells in there storage.

I personally think it would be worth making some enquiries to see if you can purchase one, after all it is a very very rare car.......

You never know! :D
Colonel Sanders
Le Surrender Monkey.
Posts: 1296
Joined: Mon Aug 07, 2006 10:00 pm
Location: guernsey.... i mean france munching on garlic and drinking wine with my children.

Thu Nov 27, 2008 3:38 pm

Good boy for saving it! :D
you beat me to it, as i wanted to!!
Jhonno
Homo Hair
Posts: 20362
Joined: Mon Jan 10, 2005 11:00 pm
Location: FLAT, FLAT, FLAT!!
Contact:

Thu Nov 27, 2008 3:39 pm

Details on the rear brakes young Theodore!!! Dia, caliper used etc etc :D
Got cable ties? Get diffin..

Arch roller for hire.

www.zeroexhausts.co.uk

Image
bss325i
E30 Zone Team Member
E30 Zone Team Member
Posts: 24513
Joined: Sat Jan 20, 2007 11:00 pm
Location: London/Surrey

Thu Nov 27, 2008 3:46 pm

Hero!

17" split rims would finish it off friend. :wink:
http://www.bmrperformance.co.uk

BMW and MINI specialist - Gatwick
Bob_S
Engaged to the E30 Zone
Engaged to the E30 Zone
Posts: 5412
Joined: Sat Jun 11, 2005 10:00 pm
Location: chester, cheshire

Thu Nov 27, 2008 4:01 pm

Theo, pull your finger out I expect it fragged before the week's out
Bollocks to this 24v scrap!
Low_E30
E30 Zone Camper
E30 Zone Camper
Posts: 1124
Joined: Wed Jan 12, 2005 11:00 pm

Thu Nov 27, 2008 4:22 pm

bss325i wrote:Hero!

17" split rims would finish it off friend. :wink:
I think a lampost already did.
aj_mckay
E30 Zone Squatter
E30 Zone Squatter
Posts: 1780
Joined: Sun Nov 11, 2007 11:00 pm
Location: Winchester

Thu Nov 27, 2008 4:24 pm

Holy chuff, that's had quite a smack! Fair play to you, will be keeping my eye on the progress of this so keep it updated! 8)
SilverShadow
Hartge Crew
Posts: 1362
Joined: Sun Jan 16, 2005 11:00 pm
Location: London

Thu Nov 27, 2008 5:03 pm

This is going to be one interesting thread!

Theo whats the black thing on the right hand side on the ecu?

http://img395.imageshack.us/img395/4945 ... 133lm1.jpg
Image
glenn
Engine Transplant Services
Engine Transplant Services
Posts: 2198
Joined: Sat Jan 29, 2005 11:00 pm
Location: blackwood, south wales

Thu Nov 27, 2008 5:13 pm

another intresting thread to look forward to..
good luck theo
Theo
Old Skooler
Old Skooler
Posts: 10698
Joined: Wed Jun 01, 2005 10:00 pm
Location: Kent

Thu Nov 27, 2008 5:23 pm

Tris, i'm pretty sure they're are no M3 shells left at BMW.

Dan, will get some detail on the rear brakes when I take them apart, look to be between 290 and 300mm and 24/25mm thick. At first I thought they were m3 calipers spaced outwards, but I compared it to an m3 caliper and it's different.

Barry, I'm thinking about it! Fancy a p/x with these wheels?

Silvershadow - I'm not sure tbh, perhaps it's the device which gets rid of the lame 155mph speed limiter?

Thanks for all the other words of encouragement. 8)

Just had a first look at the front brakes, not what I was expecting:

Image

Discs bolt onto an alloy bell and measure 302mm x 28mm according to a stamp on the caliper.
winx
E30 Zone Camper
E30 Zone Camper
Posts: 1099
Joined: Wed Jul 30, 2008 10:00 pm
Location: almost certainly not working on my E30...

Thu Nov 27, 2008 5:24 pm

Good lad was looking forward to this thread! Will watch with interest :cool:
ricey46
E30 Zone Regular
E30 Zone Regular
Posts: 983
Joined: Fri Dec 02, 2005 11:00 pm
Location: Edinburgh

Thu Nov 27, 2008 6:12 pm

Nice one Theo, glad to hear things are moving in the right direction, another quality thread in the making! :cool:
Paul.
325i sport Tech1
335i Chromie - Sold
2001 E46 M3-Sold
1999 E39 M5

Image
beardymat
E30 Zone Squatter
E30 Zone Squatter
Posts: 1969
Joined: Tue Jun 14, 2005 10:00 pm
Location: sheffield, city of steel, and rust apparently

Thu Nov 27, 2008 6:27 pm

Good on you Theo for taking this one on. i was sat staring at the photo`s of it with the words "1 of 6" and the thought of using my overdraft again when you revealed you had done the deal. You saved me from a world of debt and earache lol.

Im confident you will do the car justice and look forward to the rebuild photo`s and hopefully seeing it for real when its done :thumb:
No longer self employed but still available for welding duties.
Theo
Old Skooler
Old Skooler
Posts: 10698
Joined: Wed Jun 01, 2005 10:00 pm
Location: Kent

Thu Nov 27, 2008 6:48 pm

Sorry mate! I think you would have been rather better equipped to do the project, the front bulkhead looks modified and quite possible the transmission tunnel too. Will be fun trying to replicate that!
mattm
E30 Zone Newbie
E30 Zone Newbie
Posts: 130
Joined: Sat Jan 20, 2007 11:00 pm
Location: Sheffield

Thu Nov 27, 2008 6:57 pm

This is going to be a fantastic project!

If you are struggling to find an M3 shell, why not just transplant everything into a 316i shell and make a sleeper! :cool:
Image
B7
Trader
Trader
Posts: 15846
Joined: Tue Feb 13, 2007 11:00 pm
Location: Surrey / West Sussex

Thu Nov 27, 2008 7:08 pm

Nice one Theo. And the right colour as well!!

Looking forward to this one BIG TIME.
B7's Motto. "If it's French, BURN IT!!!!!!"
User avatar
TavernGnome
E30 Zone Newbie
E30 Zone Newbie
Posts: 12
Joined: Sun Jun 15, 2008 10:00 pm
Location: Tacoma, Wa US

Thu Nov 27, 2008 7:09 pm

Wow! I can't wait to see what comes of this project. Congrats on a once in a lifetime score.
Image
84 Hartge H23
83 Alpina B9 3.5
DanThe
Best Car & Mod-Master Winner 2009
Posts: 27838
Joined: Sat Sep 10, 2005 10:00 pm
Location: Staffs
Contact:

Thu Nov 27, 2008 8:58 pm

If the right people at BMW knew you had this Theo you may be able to get some 'honest' info on M3 shells :D

Any chance of a new avatar now? :)
Co founder of CR24vTM

PM For 24v Loom And Exhaust Conversions M50/M52/S50
EWS Delete & Remaps Also Available

https://www.facebook.com/bmconversionsuk/
Theo
Old Skooler
Old Skooler
Posts: 10698
Joined: Wed Jun 01, 2005 10:00 pm
Location: Kent

Thu Nov 27, 2008 9:39 pm

I really don't think a new shell is an option, imagine the costs when you include god knows how much trim, exterior panels, glass etc. Your comment does intrigue me though Dan, who are these 'right people'!?

The idea is to get a decent shell or a complete car. If this isn't possible then plan b is to put it all into a standard lhd 2dr shell. There's no way it's going in a RHD car due the exhaust manifold.
User avatar
hoshy
E30 Zone Wiki Guru
E30 Zone Wiki Guru
Posts: 4118
Joined: Tue Jan 18, 2005 11:00 pm
Location: Munich

Thu Nov 27, 2008 9:47 pm

8O
E46 M3 CSL but dreaming of another E30.
Jhonno
Homo Hair
Posts: 20362
Joined: Mon Jan 10, 2005 11:00 pm
Location: FLAT, FLAT, FLAT!!
Contact:

Thu Nov 27, 2008 9:58 pm

M3 shell only Theo.. Even if it takes a while longer
Got cable ties? Get diffin..

Arch roller for hire.

www.zeroexhausts.co.uk

Image
Jon_Bmw
Dangerous when thinking
Dangerous when thinking
Posts: 7606
Joined: Tue Jan 11, 2005 11:00 pm
Location: Salisbury

Thu Nov 27, 2008 10:29 pm

I like the brake disc, very smart. Are they a big single pot sliding calipers?
e21Jason
E30 Zone Addict
E30 Zone Addict
Posts: 2040
Joined: Tue Jan 11, 2005 11:00 pm
Location: Dubai, UAE

Thu Nov 27, 2008 10:36 pm

Every couple of months a shell comes on ebay.de about 3k for a roller needing work

Jason
DanThe
Best Car & Mod-Master Winner 2009
Posts: 27838
Joined: Sat Sep 10, 2005 10:00 pm
Location: Staffs
Contact:

Thu Nov 27, 2008 10:43 pm

Theo325 wrote:I really don't think a new shell is an option, imagine the costs when you include god knows how much trim, exterior panels, glass etc. Your comment does intrigue me though Dan, who are these 'right people'!?
Would be nice (and possibly of financial benefit) to know though wouldnt it 8)

The 'right people' ........ Image
Co founder of CR24vTM

PM For 24v Loom And Exhaust Conversions M50/M52/S50
EWS Delete & Remaps Also Available

https://www.facebook.com/bmconversionsuk/
davytombstone
E30 Zone Newbie
E30 Zone Newbie
Posts: 19
Joined: Sun Aug 24, 2008 10:00 pm
Location: scotland

Fri Nov 28, 2008 3:23 am

surely most of that would polish out. winkeye winkeye
seriously mate i,m sure what ever you decide, it,ll look the bollox.
hats off to you mate.
common sense is not so common.
Image
User avatar
e30matt
E30 Zone Newbie
E30 Zone Newbie
Posts: 19
Joined: Thu May 26, 2005 10:00 pm

Fri Nov 28, 2008 9:04 am

I know the guy who owned this car, We've done some work on it in the past.

If i remember rightly the rear discs are off a 635/M6. It still uses E30
handbrake shoes with extra metal 'shoes' rivited to the inside of the
disc.

The front brake discs are AP items and now special order.

IMO dont even think about putting this into a normal E30 shell,
it needs to be done the right way, E30 M3 shell.
Theo
Old Skooler
Old Skooler
Posts: 10698
Joined: Wed Jun 01, 2005 10:00 pm
Location: Kent

Fri Nov 28, 2008 10:25 am

e30matt wrote:I know the guy who owned this car, We've done some work on it in the past.

If i remember rightly the rear discs are off a 635/M6. It still uses E30
handbrake shoes with extra metal 'shoes' rivited to the inside of the
disc.

The front brake discs are AP items and now special order.

IMO dont even think about putting this into a normal E30 shell,
it needs to be done the right way, E30 M3 shell.
Thanks for the interesting post. I was under the influence that the M635csi uses a solid rear disc, might be wrong though.

You're right about the M3 shell comment, anything else would be a bit of a cop out. I've been offered a lovely missano red shell but it has the ID from a 316i so really not sure whether it's any use??
bmw-mad
Trader
Trader
Posts: 2627
Joined: Fri Mar 02, 2007 11:00 pm
Location: Birmingham

Fri Nov 28, 2008 10:29 am

Theo325 wrote:
e30matt wrote:I know the guy who owned this car, We've done some work on it in the past.

If i remember rightly the rear discs are off a 635/M6. It still uses E30
handbrake shoes with extra metal 'shoes' rivited to the inside of the
disc.

The front brake discs are AP items and now special order.

IMO dont even think about putting this into a normal E30 shell,
it needs to be done the right way, E30 M3 shell.
Thanks for the interesting post. I was under the influence that the M635csi uses a solid rear disc, might be wrong though.

You're right about the M3 shell comment, anything else would be a bit of a cop out. I've been offered a lovely missano red shell but it has the ID from a 316i so really not sure whether it's any use??
Is your car a recorded as a breaker only?

If not why not use the original id?
Theo
Old Skooler
Old Skooler
Posts: 10698
Joined: Wed Jun 01, 2005 10:00 pm
Location: Kent

Fri Nov 28, 2008 10:30 am

Yes, cat B.
Jhonno
Homo Hair
Posts: 20362
Joined: Mon Jan 10, 2005 11:00 pm
Location: FLAT, FLAT, FLAT!!
Contact:

Fri Nov 28, 2008 1:16 pm

Theo325 wrote:
e30matt wrote:I know the guy who owned this car, We've done some work on it in the past.

If i remember rightly the rear discs are off a 635/M6. It still uses E30
handbrake shoes with extra metal 'shoes' rivited to the inside of the
disc.

The front brake discs are AP items and now special order.

IMO dont even think about putting this into a normal E30 shell,
it needs to be done the right way, E30 M3 shell.
Thanks for the interesting post. I was under the influence that the M635csi uses a solid rear disc, might be wrong though.

You're right about the M3 shell comment, anything else would be a bit of a cop out. I've been offered a lovely missano red shell but it has the ID from a 316i so really not sure whether it's any use??
it'll be M5/M6 from looking at an m5 rear setup today.. Wonder if they are matching calipers..
Got cable ties? Get diffin..

Arch roller for hire.

www.zeroexhausts.co.uk

Image
cliffybabe
Powered by Nelly
Powered by Nelly
Posts: 10020
Joined: Sun Dec 18, 2005 11:00 pm
Location: Croydon

Fri Nov 28, 2008 1:19 pm

Theo this looks like its gonna be a cracking project, well done 8)
Image
Considering Selling the Cabby, looks like its gonna go
Jhonno
Homo Hair
Posts: 20362
Joined: Mon Jan 10, 2005 11:00 pm
Location: FLAT, FLAT, FLAT!!
Contact:

Fri Nov 28, 2008 1:56 pm

Theo any part numbers on the front and rear calipers?!
Got cable ties? Get diffin..

Arch roller for hire.

www.zeroexhausts.co.uk

Image
Theo
Old Skooler
Old Skooler
Posts: 10698
Joined: Wed Jun 01, 2005 10:00 pm
Location: Kent

Fri Nov 28, 2008 5:45 pm

Jhonno wrote:Theo any part numbers on the front and rear calipers?!
Had a closer look at the rear brakes, it's quite an interesting setup. The disc has a liner bolted to the inside of it so that standard handbrake shoes can be used. I can't see any part numbers because someone has got a bit carried away with the caliper paint! Did measure the disc and it was 298mm or 296mm....already forgotten :-x The calipers use the same pad as the e30 m3 and look very similar, these are just wider.

Here are some more pics;

Custom carrier adaptor
Image

With BMW carrier installed
Image

Insert in the brake disc for the handbrake shoes to contact
Image

Modified subframe - why didn't they just make the mounting arm differently?
Image

Manifold close up
Image

The boat anchor
Image

The rear end is totally bare now can't decide whether to sell it to get more space, or keep it until i've sourced a shell (the rear end on this shell is neither rusty nor bent)
Post Reply