E30 Zone

hiya guys,
so i bought anAC kit from a 325, bit of an impulse buy, i want to use it with an m44 compressor (I have m44 serpentine belt setup) and run it on R134a. I have very little idea about how to go about this properly, and wondering whether to sell the kit on or fit. I want to fit it correctly, and reliably, for R134a. I figure I need to change the seals throughout to suit R134a, that the m44 compressor should be ideal, but i'm not sure whether it will hook up to the e30 pipework and if the clutch will work off the e30 electrics. Does anyone know? do i need to change the pipework for R134a? As for the drier, can i use an e36 one? How difficult is the wiring for the AC system? As for charging the system, can this be DIY'd? Any advice appreciated, I've gone through a couple of older threads and read about buying the e30 R134a retrofit kit. Can I just buy the seals and use an e36 drier or am i better off buying this kit? Should I change pressure switches and temp sensors while at the job? Any other maintenence to be done on a 2nd hand kit before fitting?
As for mounting the condensor and heater box, etc is this pretty self explanatory? Where does the condenser sit on an e30 - in front of the rad? anyone have any pics of all the various components and fitting?
Cheers
tim

also anyone got any good links on AC stuff?

I've heard you can actually run the newer refrigerant in the older set-up with no bother - but I would check.

If it's of interest, I have an M44 driving a full E30 A/C setup.

The retrofit kit from BMW is very pricey which is what prompted people to try various workarounds.

I thought that the seals would leak if ran on R134a, so i intend to change the seals as a minimum. tbh they're prob worth changing anyway when doing a new install i'd imagine.
I take it you have an e30 compressor and not the m44 one?
I have no probs buying the R134a kit from bm, but seems a bit daft to buy a new drier if i can just use an e36 one.
might just flog the kit on, sounds like a whole load of ballache this business...

Using E30 set-up with a tweaked pulley driving it via it's own belt from the M44 block.

Regarding the the newer stuff leaking, that's what I said but my local garage said he has seen people use the old stuff.
I think if you get it checked out by a proper place, they will check for correct pressure, leaks (with a UV light)
seals and re-charge it.

The retrofit kit is around £60 but I was referring to the compressor, which you may also need, at around £600.

How badly do you want A/C I guess...

if i do it, will use m44 comrpessor as per my orig post, i use a m44 serp belt setup on mine anyway so it will bolt right up. these are R134a compatible. cost will be negligable, e36 4 pots with AC are 10 a penny.
yup i dunno how much i want AC, nice in the summer, bad for adding weight to the car. it seemed like a good idea at the time, not so sure now!

With a nice little compressor air con hardly weighs anything

I fitted a system to my M50 conversion and wouldnt sell it on now, it would follow me as long as I have an E30

As a whole, the system is very simple and easy to fit. I was in the same situation as you when I got my bits, sent loads of pm's to Ian332isport about the wiring, but once you get your head round how it works, it all becomes a piece of pi55

The retro fit kit is £100, second hand driers are useless, as they are designed to absorb moisture from the refrigerant so open to atmosphere they aint going to last long!
Seals need to be changed, I also had all the rubber pipes replaced, mine only got expensive because I bought mainly brand new parts

pm me if you need any advise

Thanks Dan, that's a well helpful reply. Where does the condensor sit, in front of the rad? Is it low down by the valence or high behind the kidney grill?

Condenser sits infront of the rad, fills the gap between upper and lower panels. You may find another to fit, but I just bought a new one as I couldnt be arsed

bloody hell that was quick! so won't get in the way of eleccy fan for main rad you think? gonna need to have a looky down there and suss it out, can't quite visualise how much room there is around there atm.

Depends what fan you are using, I had an E32 fan in but there was no way it would fit infront of a condenser.

I have the genuine air con fan mounted to the condenser now, much better as its closer to the rad

Is there anything I ought to replace on the heater box before fitting it (seals or anything), thinking of mb having a go at fitting it at the wknd/monday if i find time (got new cam, new exh manifold, new starter, new wb lambda to do so gonna be busy!), I better do a search on here for how to get the dash out!

DanThe knows what he's talking about on this one! Use the E30/M3 condenser and fan set up complete.
E30 aircon wiring will connect up to the E36 compressor clutch with no problems.
Definitely use the BMW conversion kit, as IIRC, it's far cheaper than buying the seperate bits.

I have an E36 Compressor that looks to be in better condition than my current (old) E30 one.

Does the E36 Comprssor need the r134a conversion kit to make it useable with the rest of the E30 A/C setup?

Or does it bolt right in?

no, you'll need a serp belt setup to run it, not the e30 pulley arrangement. Not sure about the hose connections either! You wanna flog it?

I have a Serp belt - M44 Block & Head.

ah ok. m44 block and head doesn't necessarily mean serp belt and your mention of the e30 compressor made me think you were running the standard setup. tbh that prob means there's some reason why your dude picked to use the e30 compressor, prob the fittings are different.

By Serp belt you mean single belt driving all pulleys right?



My compressor is run by it's own belt off the bottom pulley with an extended pulley for neater alignment and tension. The A/C is the E30 standard but apparently an E36 Compressor would line up better and I dare say work better as it's newer.

But I don't know if it's just plug and play into the E30 pipe-work?

As a matter of interest, there is nothing in the BMW retrofit kit that can't be had cheaper from the Hella catalogue. Is all the kit consists of is a new label, a dryer, a binary switch and some new O rings.

If you go to a car A/C specialist they will know the score. You could take the easy route and run it on R49, instead of R134a, that way you needn't worry about micro absorbtion from the old hoses and seals so much. All you would need is a new dryer IMO.

It is important to keep all of it as dry and clean as possible. Try and keep the ends of everything closed up and leave it all in a dry environment. It's not just the dryer that needs to be kept dry! Regarding the dryer, again, it is classed as a service item. My car has had two in the last few months as part of the A/C re commissioning and leak testing since I retrofitted it to work with my S50.

The condenser is probably best replaced as the originals are now upto 20 years old and they get a hard time strapped in front of the radiator. Mine cost £99 + VAT from a radiators factor and it was a Behr OEM unit. The E30 A/C fan setup works well and is the easiest sloution as it integrates the engine cooling via a rad temp switch and a two speed resistor. It all works very nicely as it is and manages with my S50, known to run warm. The only other thing I'd suggest is soldering in a new fan speed resistor, whcih sits in front of the fan, as they tend to fail over the years. BMW do list them as a repair kit BTW.

HTH






With regards the wiring, it is all plug and play. (pretty much)

Awesome.

Many thanks dude.

Where do you use for your AC bits, old_skool_2002? I did notice that dryers and seal kits are really cheap on US ebay, so I guess there are options other than the retrofit kit.

Pattern condensor for £67 off GSF inc vat.
E36 dryer is £30 off euro, can't find one for the e30. There are plenty of e30 driers for $15+ in the states though. found a R134a seal kit in the states, i think i'd prefer BM stuff though. Not sure if i can use some e36 pipework to compressor etc or if i'll need custom stuff.
What are peoples' thoughts on the below kit?
http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/BMW-E24- ... enameZWDVW

A lot of the US systems still run on R12, so beware!

Are R12 and R134a driers different?

tim_s wrote:Are R12 and R134a driers different?

The drier in my genuine BMW conversion kit states R-12 & R-134a compatible.

The conversion kit also comes with the adapters to convert the threaded R-12 charge ports to the quick couplers for R-134a.

Cheers,

Iain T

ok, so dug all the gear out of the garage on the wknd to take a little look at what i've got and what i've not etc.
I appear to be missing the engine side loom, how much of a problem will this be? Can I nick some connectors off a breaker and solder up my own easily enough? Otherwise I think I have everything (other than the AC switch itself it seems!), though I still need to get my head around what goes where.
I'm also trying to figure out what some of the stuff connected to the heater box connects to. I have a big old connector which I assume plugs straight into the car loom from what i';ve read on old posts, but also have small rectangular black and white connectors that I'm not sure of, and also a single bullet-ish connector hanging loose. I have pics, will post up when i'm home. Can anyone shed any light on these? I'm thinking of putting my existing blower motor and heat exchanger into the AC heater box, is this easily achieved? I guess I also need to test everything in the heater box when the dash is out to make sure that all is well, what do the motors controlling the vents near the blower motor do? lots of questions!

anyone?

does anyone have the part nos for the kit i now have a complete set up and need this kit ....how much is it and what does it contain

Not sure about those Tim, not for the controls are they?

Retrofit kit contains drier, pressure switch, seals and labels gazza, Part No is- 82319067394 approx £100

I've got an aircon heater box here all boxed up waiting to go on my second M50/M52 project E30, and have been meaning to dig it out and have a look, but, from what I remember, the wiring is all pretty much self contained, with the only connection to the car being the same multiplug that the normal heater box connects to.
On the couple of cars I've checked, the extra wiring has been present in the car body loom, back as far as a small socket inside the fusebox.
The aircon heater box loom has connections to the cigarette lighter and a few bulbs on it, of course, the same as the normal heater loom.
Can't remember, off hand, where the wire from the aircon to the four pin socket beside the ECU runs.

As far as I remember there is a five pin plug inside the fusebox which lays dormant in all E30's ready to plug into the A/C box (that's the controls), then there are two connections that need pushing into the underside of the fuse panel itself beneath two relays (can't remember which offhand). There are also connections to make to two fuse bodies also. These are both 'plug and play' affairs.

I'm not sure what Brian means by cigarette lighter connections - the new A/C heater box plugs in to the same plug as the standard e30 item. Albeit with additional wires (which go to that dormant 5 pin plug)

Then the rest is the ECU wires which run inside the car to the base of the steering column ish, and the loom inside the engine bay which goes to the fan, temp switch, pressure switch and compressor.

Ian Haynes is the man on A/C wiring and without him I'd have been scratching my head. I'd give him a ring.

The 5 pin plug in the fuse box is for the compressor/cooling fan control Dameon, as you say though, if Ian doesn't know, its not going to happen

bugger ah well, if anyone has their heater box apart at some pt, I'd be well grateful if you could check on these three connectors for me. I won't use the ECU wiring for the moment (don't know what it looks like either I must admit!), I use megasquirt anyway and can rig that in once the whole setup is in. any further clues on the wiring would be greatly appreciated, I'll pm Ian and ask if he wouldn't mind looking at this thread!

Tim, the connectors are likely to be for the heater temperature knob.

Looking back at your OP I would say you could replace the matrix with your existing one but use all new gaskets. The heater pipes on my AC box were metal so I'd continue to use those. The servo motors iirc are to control the recirc function.

The A/C loom may very well be available from BMW, it couldn't hurt to look. If you get super stuck then I could maybe lend you a spare one of mine off my iX to replicate.