E30 Zone

Morning guys

Well just bought my first BMW , a D-reg 325i sport. I bought it pretty cheap as a fixxer upper as the guy said it ran funny and smoked, which it definately does.

I wondered if i could ask for help from some veterans that may have seen the problems before. History of the car is its done 180k apparently with full service, although it doesnt look like its done near that mileage, it started to smoke a little and run strangely about 18months ago and the guy took it off the road so its sat for over a year.

Basically for starters, it smokes big time its quite pale im not sure if its oil or water i think it could be water but having said theres a slight tinge of blue.

Compression readings are from 1-6:

12 bar
12.25 bar
11.5 bar
12 bar
12.25 bar
12.5bar

So that looks ok. Plugs from 1-3 looked slightly oily, not dripping/pooling with oil but just didnt have that bone dry off grey look youd hope for.

The idle control valve constantly buzzes when the ignitions on is this normal?

Water level was very low

When you first try and start it it needs throttle to stay alive and seems to want to shoot up to 4.5k then back to 500 revs and will then die if you release the throttle. It also hates starting too. After keeping it running as best we could it started to idle ok but at about 1500 rpm(but the idle screw is 2/3 out towards the throttle lever, where as a friend of mines is pretty much all the way back) but it carried on smoking/steaming albeit nowhere near as bad. When the revs do go up to 4.5kish she sounds really sweet(healthy), and Max who's had two said it sounds a good engine when its not trying to idle. We then took her out for a short gentle drive and she felt like she was running on 4 cylinders low down the rev range and needed taking to 4.5k to pull or she wanted to stall.

Really looking forward to driving her so hopefully with your help i can fix her. Must say im very confused at the healthy compression readings i was all ready for it to be rings.


We did try a known healthy afm and still the same symptoms.

Sorry for the long post but i thought it best to give you guys as much info as possible.

Many thanks

Mark

Sounds like an ignition problem to me, check coil, ht leads, rotor arm and dizzy cap and plugs

See, it does to me too, but its the steam/smoke (whichever it is) thats confusing the hell out of me!

If there was a problem with the cyl. head would the compression still be o.k.? is it possible that a fault which developed in the head could let water into the combustion chamber but not alter the compression ratio by much (....11.5 bar?)
The steam out of the back sounds pretty ominous to me even with my very limited knowledge.
I can`t see personally how steam out of the back can equate to an electrical problem, (a breather problem?)
...................not that i know much!

The idle control valve is supposed to buzz with the ignition on.

Cheers,

Iain T

Hey guys

Slight update, forked out for new rotor arm, dizzy cap (how much??!) and plugs for it. No difference at all. The liquid on the plugs wasnt oil, its either fuel or water. The smoke is not blue its more grey/white.

Still stumped

Mark

PS Thanks Iain

Could it be Coolant temp sensor making it run rough(read: fecking terrible) when cold and overfuel?

my 325 rag top done this and i found that the valve clearances were wrong on two cylinders! paid my mechanic £30 quid and no more probs! app the clearances need checking reg on this engine!!! symptons were:

searching at idle , plumeing white smoke, ect!! at first i went down the air flow meter road! but this was fine! Hope this helps

TheKoose wrote:Water level was very low

...on a 325i = cracked 'head.
Sorry to be a prophet of doom.

The TPS could be set up wrong if someone's fiddled with the idle screw (which shouldn't be changed from the factory position). Engine off listen for a click when the throttle is closed, no click = ECU doesn't know the throttle is closed. Also look for vacuum leaks in any of the hoses round the throttle body can cause problems with idle.

TheKoose wrote:
Water level was very low
...on a 325i = cracked 'head.
Sorry to be a prophet of doom

is this true even if your water goes low say after three to four weeks and requires a top up, does that mean a cracked head, pls say no?

over heating??

siddiqi1 wrote:

TheKoose wrote:
Water level was very low
...on a 325i = cracked 'head.
Sorry to be a prophet of doom

is this true even if your water goes low say after three to four weeks and requires a top up, does that mean a cracked head, pls say no?

If you're loosing water, it has to be going somewhere. If there are no obvious leaks, get a cooling system pressure check done. If that doesn't show-up any external leaks (and you don't have wet carpets - ie leaking heater system) but the pressure drops, it's going to be either the 'head gasket, or the 'head itself.
325i's are well known for cracking 'heads.

over heating??

Nope, runs and stays coll in traffic!!!

siddiqi1 wrote:
Quote:
TheKoose wrote:
Water level was very low
...on a 325i = cracked 'head.
Sorry to be a prophet of doom
is this true even if your water goes low say after three to four weeks and requires a top up, does that mean a cracked head, pls say no?
If you're loosing water, it has to be going somewhere. If there are no obvious leaks, get a cooling system pressure check done. If that doesn't show-up any external leaks (and you don't have wet carpets - ie leaking heater system) but the pressure drops, it's going to be either the 'head gasket, or the 'head itself.
325i's are well known for cracking 'heads.

oooooh......i have a wet passenger side carpet, tried to dry the bugger but its always wet, but my heater is really good though.........runs very hot!!!

Ive had a new head in there.well it was put in 5kmiles ago..........are you suggesting the heater matrix?

Saboor

Cheers Trevski, certainly sounds promising.

Essbee, i wonder though why compression would be spot on with a cracked head.

siddiqi1 wrote:

over heating??

Nope, runs and stays coll in traffic!!!

siddiqi1 wrote:
Quote:
TheKoose wrote:
Water level was very low
...on a 325i = cracked 'head.
Sorry to be a prophet of doom
is this true even if your water goes low say after three to four weeks and requires a top up, does that mean a cracked head, pls say no?
If you're loosing water, it has to be going somewhere. If there are no obvious leaks, get a cooling system pressure check done. If that doesn't show-up any external leaks (and you don't have wet carpets - ie leaking heater system) but the pressure drops, it's going to be either the 'head gasket, or the 'head itself.
325i's are well known for cracking 'heads.

oooooh......i have a wet passenger side carpet, tried to dry the bugger but its always wet, but my heater is really good though.........runs very hot!!!

Ive had a new head in there.well it was put in 5kmiles ago..........are you suggesting the heater matrix?

Saboor

I also have a wet passenger carpet heater doesn't work on position 1 &@ only 3, i've been told its a fuse, my water goes low every so often but luckily its not the head its the cap on the header tank, after you've had a drive open the bonnet and quickly look, when I looked water was coming out and then evaporating, changed the cap and now its fine

JazzMan wrote:The TPS could be set up wrong if someone's fiddled with the idle screw (which shouldn't be changed from the factory position). Engine off listen for a click when the throttle is closed, no click = ECU doesn't know the throttle is closed. Also look for vacuum leaks in any of the hoses round the throttle body can cause problems with idle.

Thank you very much for the hint. How should it be set up? How do i set it up?

So to test i have ignition on then foot down and back up and when the pedals fully released i should hear a click?

TheKoose wrote:Essbee, i wonder though why compression would be spot on with a cracked head.

You've got 12bar or over on 5 of the 6 pots. OK, so the 6th one is less than 10% down, but it's still suspect in my opinion.
Have you had te cooling system pressure tested?

I also have a wet passenger carpet

That will be either the heater matrix or the heater control valve leaking. Nothing to do with the blower function and the heater will still get hot as long as there is some hot water going through it.

Hi Essbee, no but after a few mintues of running the cap goes tschhh when i take it off. But yeah i should really get it tested, problem is getting the thing to a garage.

TheKoose wrote:

JazzMan wrote:The TPS could be set up wrong if someone's fiddled with the idle screw (which shouldn't be changed from the factory position). Engine off listen for a click when the throttle is closed, no click = ECU doesn't know the throttle is closed. Also look for vacuum leaks in any of the hoses round the throttle body can cause problems with idle.

Thank you very much for the hint. How should it be set up? How do i set it up?

So to test i have ignition on then foot down and back up and when the pedals fully released i should hear a click?

ygpm

My recently acquired M40 had similar problems. When I test drove it, it was fine idled fine, no smoke etc.

Reversing into the drive and it starts chugging out of the back, grey smelly plumes from the exhaust. I suspected the worst and ppresumed piston rings, mine also had very low water and I could see some coolant on the main hoses.

Changed the oil and now it smokes only a tad and smeel a lot cleaner. Will keep checking the coolant level. If my coolant keeps dropping im guessing head crack.

Thanks

I also have a wet passenger carpet heater doesn't work on position 1 &@ only 3, i've been told its a fuse, my water goes low every so often but luckily its not the head its the cap on the header tank, after you've had a drive open the bonnet and quickly look, when I looked water was coming out and then evaporating, changed the cap and now its fine

thanks maty.......will try that now you know ando rder a new cap just ot be safe!!!

thanks

Saboor

Right, interesting happenings today. Couldnt sleep well last night thinking wtf it could be. Started wondering if the fuel would still be ok being sat outside for up to two years. Went down this morning with the intentions of checking the throttle, putting some optimax in to bump up the fuel quality(which it would do as there was only about 3litres of fuel in the tank so not alot to dilute) and if that didnt work crack away on the valve clearences then if it all did nothing id bin the head, or embark on an M50 conversion.

Got down there, checked for the electronic click when you lift of the throttle(assuming this is the correct way of doing it) :
So to test i have ignition on then foot down and back up and when the pedals fully released i should hear a click?

No click. Wound the idle screw back in as it was nearly all the way out as previously said.
Put 6 litres of optimax in. Turned the key..splutter fires a bit, dies. Turn key again Vrmm 1500rpm fluctuating a bit but hell its started fairly easily. Let it idle for a few mins (was fluctuating 300rpm) then took her for a 5minute drive, all the smoke cleared. Sat idling in a car park and took this pic:




Its running(idling) in the pic and as you can see, no smoke

This is the state of the throttle(loose as hell throttle cable):



Fairly sure now its either TPS or idle control valve, i reckon TPS.

Taken the AFM, idle control valve and throttle(inclduing tps) home to give a good clean as the throttle is a bit gummed up round the edge of the butterfly and it stocks(the idle screw also sticks the to the lever on the throttle)

Still least i'm making progress with the help of you guys. Strange to think 2 days ago id never owned a beemer or thought of it. Now i am and im very excited

The cable should be a bit loose so it doesn't pull on the throttle so thats nothing to worry about, the lack of a jubilee clip on that boot is though. (assuming you've not already removed it)

The butterfly should be cleaned and when in the closed position you should just be able to see a slither of light between it and the body, if not then use the stop screw to move it off the completely closed position and then thread lock the screw in place and never touch it again.
The TPS should click just as you start to open the throttle (less than a mm) if it doesn't click don't unscrew it just yet because you'll mess up the original setting. First turn the whole thing upside down and drill a 1mm hole in the switch's plastic body (just the body) just below the word Bosch and then turn it back up the right way and let the oil drain out.
After that check again for a click, if not THEN loosen the two retaining screws and rotate the switch body until its in a position where it clicks just as the throttle is opened. Then thread lock the screws back down and put it all back together.

In your original post you said spark plugs 1-3 were OK, what were 4-6 like ?
And what did the original coolant look like ? clear/brown/green ?

Hey there, and thanks for the help. 4-6 were fine. Coolant looked ok, just like tired coolant, no oil in it.

Edit: Throttle and TPS all assembled as per your helpful post, after thorough cleanout . Will go over before work and fit, fingers crossed

BTW, i see there are coolant lines running into the throttle body housing is this to warm it up or something? Does water ever get into the thorttle itslef if a gasket leaks or whatnot?

Mark

That single,low compression may be a tight valve clearance or even a sticky valve due to the car standing...that valve could have been sat part open all the time..My M20 engine likes it water level to be about half an inch below the moulded join on the header tank,it spits any coolant above this level out.These engines will not run properly until every part is spot on,a fresh set of NKG BRP 5 plugs will help.Check the boot between the AFM and throttle body for splits/cracks,another cheap fix.Oh,welcome to the zone,BTW.

daimlerman wrote:That single,low compression may be a tight valve clearance or even a sticky valve due to the car standing...that valve could have been sat part open all the time.

Good point - I didn't think of that. Could be a bit rusting on the valve seat too.

The coolant lines to the throttle body are just to warm it slightly in colder weather so they don't help a great deal in the summer.
The way its moulded i don't think its posible for it to leak into the intake but you never know.

I was asking about the coolant because i was wondering if it had any antifreeze/rust inhibitor in it, if it didn't and just had tap water then theres a chance the head has rusted along the join with the head gasket which can break right through to the combution chamber. If its become too bad then the head is scrap.

I'd run it up to working temperature and then have a feel of how hard/pressurised the water hoses are and keep an eye on the coolant level.

Hey guys

Right did all the afm and tps clean out and reset. Idled perfect. But then started running on 5 again and continued to run on 5 for 3miles. Took it back had a breakand came back 2 hours later, still on 5. Kindof got frustrated and prepared o take the head off so both manifolds are off now. Should i stop sulking and put it back together and continue diagnosing or take the head off to be pressure tested?

Mark

PS Daimler man, yeah i noticed the boot had a hole on one of the ribbed parts so i selaed it with a little pad as best i could ill get a new one if i keep the M20.

Run it so it only fires on five cylinders and then pull the HT leads one at a time until it still runs on five with one lead off so you know which cylinder has the problem.
Then pull that spark plug and have a look to see if the end of it is steam cleaned.
If it looks oily then just try a new ht lead to make sure its not that.
If the ends steam cleaned then the head has gone porouse and is either cracked due to it overheating or it has rusted right through from the water jacket due to lack of antifreeze/rust inhibitor.
You may be extremly lucky and its just the head gasket that gone but i've never seen that happen, its always the head that breaks first. Useualy if its numbers 3-4 its cracked and if its 5-6 its rusted through.

Is the coolant level dropping ?

Nope coolant levels not dropping.

Slight update:

Replaced the sump gasket as it was leaking, also the AFM to throttle boot. Put 15 litres of new fuel in with some injector cleaner. Already done all ignition except leads and she seems much better. Noticed the wire to the oil pressure sensor was very badly thinned, think like one strand of wire was holding it on. recrimped a new terminal and thats stopped the light coming on. Given it an oil flush with some new oil and a BM filter. Still smokes but it seems to be slowing down vastly, the last trip i did it just smoked very faintly twice as opposed to all the time. Performance is now much much much better(feels like my friends 325i, good power and very smooth), idles good once it had warmed up. It did still not like idling when cold but again, a car thats stood for such a long while may need a bit of coaxing to get back on its feet, and a few miles under its belt to blow out any cobwebs and lube everything up.

Fingers crossed i wont have to swap the engines as i in my current situation with 3 projects on the go, it'd be hard to find the time. Will fire it tomorrow and update how she is now from cold.

Again, thanks for all the help.

Mark

You replaced the sump gasket! You said that so casually dude, must have been a nightmare! I'm glad its running better now, its potential is being realised.

(feels like my friends 325i, good power and very smooth)

That'll be mine then

Of course!

There are ways of cheating the sump gasket dude without dropping the subframe. Still a bloody nightmare and did have to drop the steering rack a few inches. I would happily help with yours when the time comes, but not on my driveway!!

Got home from work at 11.30, she was ice cold, fired up a treat, no smoke took her for a gentle run to warm her up, then howled through the country roads for a midnight run. Took her back to bed and all seemed well. Wow, it might just turn out alright after all.