E30 Zone

hi guys, ok i just bought a seriously clean 320i touring with only 60k on the clock.
However, i have a couple of probs i need to sort,

Firstly the electric windows and sunroof keep blowing their relevent fuse. I suspect a short in the circuit but could it just be a faulty relay?If so which relay would it be and where can i get one?

Secondly the exhaust manifold has previously had the far end stud snapped off in the cylinder head. It is blowing on initial start up but goes quiet after warming up and can only be heard under moderate acceleration. What i would like to know is, ROUGHLY how much would it cost to have this snapped stud drilled out and replaced? or is it something i could possibly do? (i have hardly any mechanical experience but am usually quite handy)
Id love to get this sorted ASAP as i wanna hear that amazin growl without the tick,tick,tick!

cheers

First off welcome

Exhaust studs - try a search as this has been covered, but AFAIK its a right git to do in the car, especially if its one of the studs up by the bulkhead.

A mate of mine got 3 broken studs out of my 2.5 engine with some trick welding. Took him half hour and cost me a tenner, but then the engine was sat on the floor at the time.

Are you sure its blowing? M20s tick at the best of times - my 325i ran with 1 broken stud for a year and half without blowing.

cheers for the welcome and the quick reply.

I really hope i dont have to have the engine out/head off . Its actually the stud at the radiator end...but even if its accessable i guess there is no guarantee another one wont shear off when removing the manifold?!

Any guestimates on a worse case scenario price would be great.

Also regarding my window/sunroof problem...should i try replacing relay k5?

It might possible to get at that stud with the engine/head still in place, but it will be tight.

I couldnt guess a price, it would depend on the person/garage doing the work, but it wont be cheap if the heads got to come off

If relay K5 is the one for the windows and roof then try changing it, but I dont know enough about electrics, so I shouldnt guess.

i have read elsewhere about people having problems with therir electric windows, and that they only work when the dorrs are opened, i just realised today that i have exactly the same problem. I believe i need to check realy k5 and also the earth on my starter motor?

There are two seperate fuses for the windows/roof. One for when the doors are open (fuse 28) and one for the doors closed and ignition on (fuse 17). Both should be 30A. Which one is blowing?
Problem is not a relay, so don't bother changing them.
Find a short piece of garden hose or similar, stick one end in your ear, and check carefully with the other end exactly where the ticking is coming from before you decide to remove the exhaust manifold. Chances are that more studs will break. It's a brave person that tries to remove a broken rear stud with the engine still in a car.

oh dear that sounds ominous.... i guess if it is the stud blowing i may be facing a hefty bill for head removal......

i think its fuse 17 blowing as the windows/sunroof opens fine when doors are open. The fuse blows when doors are shut, after a few seconds use

There's no different circuitry involved with the windows and roof when the doors are open than there is with the ignition on. Just a SPDT relay in the back of the glovebox changing frow one power source to the other.
Is fuse 17 30A?

yes 30A

just checked and with ignition on the windows/roof switches light up and work with doors open , and completely fail when shut (as fuse blows) So i need to replace SPDT relay in glovebox you reckon?

Very strange then, if the sequence of events are as you describe above. Only thing I can think of that would cause as you say above is an internal fault in the relay.
The little relay circuit that enables the windows and roof to operate with the doors open is an add on circuit not fitted in E30s supplied to some (most?) countries, and can be easily disconnected as a test.
At the back of the glovebox, find a green/blue wire that comes from the relay with a single pole plug and socket in it. Pull this plug and socket apart, pull the white/black wire from the accessories socket (this pin of the socket comes directly from fuse 17), and push the green/blue wire onto it's place.
The windows/roof should now only work with the ignition on.

Whoopes! Sorry guts just realised the fuse that is blowing is fuse 28 NOT 17!
Does this make any differenct to your diagnostics? The windows and sunroof were only working with the door open and ignition turned to on, but then the fuse blew with the doors open also.
Could it be a short in the system?
Please advise what to check as i really wanna sort this out, but im crap at electrics

Of course it makes a bl***y difference! Accurate and complete fault symptoms PLEASE.

Fuse 28 supplies other things as well - cigarette lighter and electric aerial for two. Also often used as a supply for audio stuff. Fault could be with any of these.

my apollogies mr moore and everyone else concerned. ok heres the run down;

with doors open, interior light AND window light switches light up , PLUS electric windows and sunroof operate without key even in ignition! (i take it this isnt standard??)
with door shut all lights go out and windows/sunroof stop operating
with ignition on window lights dont light up or work. fuse 28 blows frequently but everything else still works including stereo and lighter, only windows and sunroof stop working.

any ideas??

With the front doors open the interior lights should come on if switched to do so, and the windows and roof should work on UK cars, regardless of the position of the ignition switch. They are fed by fuse 28, and will cease working if fuse 28 blows, unless the ignition is on, when they will automatically switch to take their supply from fuse 17.
With the doors closed, the windows/roof only work with the ignition on, and are fed by fuse 17.

so why do you think that when the doors are shut they dont work and fuse 28 blows? fuse 17 seems to stay fine

There's no connection whatsoever between closed doors and fuse 28, other than a weird and highly unlikely internal fault in the relay at the back of the glovebox.
window/doors should work with the ignition on, regardless of whether the doors are open or closed and regardless of the condition of fuse 28. They should be working through fuse 17.
A high propotion of E30 electrical faults are caused by audio and alarm systems, or more precisely by theit poor quality installation, and fuse 28 is a favourite source for audio power.

just double checked and as before with ignition on nothing happend. in the morning i will take out aftermarket head unit and inspect the wiring for any dodgyness!
With ignition on and head lights on window switches still dont light up

Unplug/bypass the relay as detailed earlier in the thread.
Wonder if the wires are in the right places on the accessories panel, although it should be impossible to get them wrong.

cheers brian, there seems to have been some success. i have bypassed the relay for doors being open and the windows seem to be working ok with the ignition turned to on. Fuse 17 has blown twice but i think its because i didnt realise i hadnt replaced fuse 28? With both fuses replaced things seem to be working. Ill be back if 17 starts to blow again..... fingers crossed i wont be back!

GUESS WHAT??? lol....just went for a drive, bloody fuse 17 blew straight away. whats next to do?

Brodie320 wrote:GUESS WHAT??? lol....just went for a drive, bloody fuse 17 blew straight away. whats next to do?

Is that with the glove box relay disconnected? And did fuse 17 blow when you tried to work the windows or roof, if so, which, or just on its own?

well i stuck the green/blue wire in place of the black/white one , and didnt reconnect the black/white one to anything so i presume its dissconected? (please excuse my ignorance my electric skills are very poor)
I tried the drivers window after turning on ignition and got nothing.
When the relay was connected other way i noticed passenger window blew the fuse (but was fuse 28 then) , but i think its both windows doing it. Not sure if ive blown it using the roof.
I think my local halfords is about to run out of 30a fuses

Right, we're getting somewhere!
Stick another fuse 17 in and turn the ignition on. Don't touch any window or roof switches.
Does the fuse blow?
Preferably, get someone to watch the fuse for you, and work the roof.
Does it work, or the fuse blow?
If the fuse holds, work the passenger window.
Work or blow?
Work the drivers window.
Work or blow?

ok,
ignition doesnt seem to blow the fuse .
tested sunroof abou 10 times, all ok
same with drivers door
passenger window blew fuse 3 times, occasionally worked fully up and down about 10 times, but if i change direction of window quickly, or turn ignition off and on then hit window switch it blows.
now out of fuses till 2moro....
hows this looking?

p.s. coulda sworn the drivers window blew it earlier today but may be wrong. couldnt get it to blow it again this evening

It looks like there is a intermittant short circuit somewhere in the wiring of the passenger window circuit.
There are no common reasons for this, but the first thing I would try is changing the switch, as both live and earth go into it. Just prises out, and pull the connector off the back.
Take the roof one out and try that as a check. They are identical.
If that doesn't cure it, then take the door card off and disconnect the motor plug to see if the fuse still blows when you work the switch with the motor disconnected

Brodie320 wrote:p.s. coulda sworn the drivers window blew it earlier today but may be wrong. couldnt get it to blow it again this evening

Didn't see this post when I posted the above.

ill try your last advice monday evening. thanks for your patience Brian!

ok.... ive swapped the roof for window switch, and now i cant seem to blow the fuse with the 'new' window switch. But i did blow the fuse with the 'old switch' in the roof. So it looks like problem solved, ill just source a new switch. I know it should have been easy for me to trace but i literally switch off when it comes to electrics. Many thanks for your help!!
( i REALLY hope im not back on this thread!)

The best way of confirming the guilt of any suspected faulty component is to move it somewhere else, or to another vehicle.
If the fault moves with the component, then that is fairly conclusive, and it looks if that is what you've done.
There are two types of switch that you may find in an E30, that look identical from the outside, but differ greatly in quality. The good ones have round pins on the back and plug into a dedicated socket, while the other type have flat blade type connectors on the back, and have seperate push on connectors. These were dealer fitted to cars that didn't originally have electric windows, and are rubbish, along with the window motors that go with them.
Never known a switch to cause this problem though. Open it up and have a look. May be something silly like a pin or piece of aluminium foil found its way in there.

thats weird, my switch is a mix between the 2 you described. it has flat blades but pushes into a dedicated socket nice and tight fit.
just opened the switch up. looks like an area around the spring worked loose and semi welded itself. Ive cleaned it down and will give it a try. Got a replacement on the way anyway