E30 Zone

hi all,

Ive got a stripped out 325iS, 17"alpinas, powerflow exhaust and a hartge chip, the next thing i want to do is upgrade the front brakes, they're warped so need a change anyway...

Does anyone know of any good brake kits (calipers and disks) for the E30? I know Wilwood do a 4pot set, any comments on those or know where to get them in the uk??

Any advice will be appreciated...

The Zone Shop may be offering some brake kits in the next week or so.

Other than that Wilwood is the only other choice that I know of.

cheers for that, i would wait for the zone shop but its fairly urgent!!!

do you know where i can get wilwoods, and how much they'll cost? maybe somewhere around 280mm disks as im on 17' wheels

www.rallydesign.co.uk sell the Wilwood kit with 280mm discs.

I've got the kit and I'm pretty pleased with it although they do squeal like buggery unless you're really leaning on them!

Do you have more pedal travel than before?

They shouldn'nt be noisy.

Pedal travel's pretty much the same from what I can tell.

Really need to grease up the backs and sides of the pads with a bit of copper slip to see if that stops the noise, another thing to add to the list!

Products from a company called WMS brakes are hopefully going to be coming to us Zoners this week.

here's a little sneak preview of an E30 front leg fitted with their 4 pot calipers and green stuff pads:

regarding pedal travel, do you think its worth changing the master cylinder? I've got more pedal travel than i'd like, certainly wouldnt want any more than what i have... is that a big job?

have you had to alter the brake bias since you fitted them?

sorry about all the q's, brakes aint my thang!

M5pilot wrote:Products from a company called WMS brakes are hopefully going to be coming to us Zoners this week.

here's a little sneak preview of an E30 front leg fitted with their 4 pot calipers and green stuff pads:

They sell these on e bay will they be cheaper from the zone shop? http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/4-Pot-Caliper-Big ... dZViewItem

ED

Will these fit under 15" BBS? The ebay add mentions "some 15 inch" wheels...

I'm awaiting the same answer from WMS myself.

The price on ebay is + VAT (see bottom of advert) which makes it £382 approx.

Zone Shop price will most likely be very similar.

Fair enough.... do you need a Test Pilot?

Already have a test pilot. Track car is having them fitted as soon as they arrive.

WMS initially made kits for Fords.
They have branched out to offer there kits to other makes and the E30 is one of them.

they do have a comparatively small surface area and I would not think that they alter pedal travel that much.

Again Some wilwood kits are not much different from standard (displacement) and these can be bought for the same sort of price.

www.rallydesign.co.uk

Americans rave over Saab calipers (900) on VW Corrado discs. You need a spacer kit as the discs are 280mm, so 20mm bigger tahn standard.

Not sure about the poundage of the Saab caliper though or displacement.

The other thing to consider is the back as the bias could be thrown out. 60/40 is a good BMw mark to go for although 70/30 has proved to be good especially round some circuits!!

Graham

Those discs in the ebay ad look like the VW corrado 280mm discs with the vents around the hub part, apparently they are prone to breaking due to them not being solid.

Also everyone can see that the calipers are basically a copy of the wilwood calipers. I'm not saying thats a bad thing tho.

would i need spacer kits to install 280mm disks on 17" alpinas?

also, how much do you reckon it'd be to get some braided hoses installed?

£382, was that just for the calipers? Fairly pricey if so, although if it include the disks then cheaper than wilwood..

It tells you what you get and what you need Click here > http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/4-Pot-Caliper-Big ... dZViewItem

Just a couple of points that were raised Re WMS kits....

- "Copy" implies cheap or inferior, not so....! They are similar to Wilwood in that they are the same generic motorsport caliper mount, lots of mfrs use the same standard.

- The kit includes THIN wheel spacers, but only to get the offset back to the original BMW spec (the WMS disc has a 2mm thinner mounting flange).

- The 280mm kit has been tested behind 16" Alpina replicas and fitted fine - so 17's should be fine. It has been briefly tested inside a 15" BBS last week and appears to fit, but it was very tight and we'll have to build up a dummy strut/disc/caliper/wheel etc at some point next week to be 100% sure.

- The discs are indeed based on the G60 ones... However the first prototype kit (in the photo) was the only one to have the cast holes, the main supplier of our discs appears to not like the idea either and the "bell" part is solid on all the kits in proper production!

- The "kit" includes calipers/stainless steel brackets/discs/mounting bolts and washers. Extras are Earls braided brake lines to match the 1/8"NPT ports in the calipers, the option to have grooved discs (a few sets are now in stocked to cut the time it takes to get them done) and pads (EBC Reds got our vote in testing, even from cold).

Hope that helps! (please don't PM me, M5Pilot is your man in this case)

can you use other discs - or do they have to be WMS provided ones?

Well, if you wanted EBC discs for example that's ok, what we would do is buy in some EBC G60 discs and modify them to fit in the normal way.

Obviously you can't buy the discs pre-modded from local motor factors etc, but we are cheaper for "OEM" discs than most factors in any case!

Alternatively if you've got a lathe or a mate with one, then you can modify your own G60 discs at your own risk and you might be able to save a bit - but I suspect it won't be worth it in most cases, WMS E30 280mm discs should only be in the region of £65/70+vat per pair.

Would be keen to know for sure if this kit fits beneath the 15" BBS cross spokes.

alexbaby88 wrote:Would be keen to know for sure if this kit fits beneath the 15" BBS cross spokes.

same here.

ED

So, do the 15" BBS's fit over the WMS 280mm kit or not?

A picture speaks a thousand words!







As I said: YES ...but it's "tight"!!!!!!

Also, the M3 is totally different as it turns out - it'll be a new kit from scratch to fit that which will take a while. It'll probably be in 300mm and 325mm forms, depending on what discs fit.

keri-WMS wrote: Also, the M3 is totally different as it turns out - it'll be a new kit from scratch to fit that which will take a while. It'll probably be in 300mm and 325mm forms, depending on what discs fit.

Which M3 wheels would the 300/325mm kits be designed for - the 15" BBS or the 16"?

Just thought I'd add my biased 2penneth here...

I worked with Keri on developing a drivative of the Ford kits to suit TVR Chimaeras and Griffiths. I now run a 283mm kit on my Chimaera race car and I'm very impressed with the package, I won't bore you with pages of anecdotal evidence of how good i reckon they are, suffice to say, short of the Tuscan Challenge cars I reckon I've the best brake setup in the paddock, I just need to have more power and to set up my suspensin better!

Regards
Iain

[quote="keri-WMS"]So, do the 15" BBS's fit over the WMS 280mm kit or not?

A picture speaks a thousand words!



The pad is not covering all the disc should it be like that whats the point of having a 280mm disc when you are only using 270mm of it. Still thinking about getting a set.

ED

Ello Iain! I didn't know you'd been on south park!

As for the M3 wheels (I forgot about the 16's ), here's the 280mm 4-stud kit on a 15" BBS (see photo) and I think you'll agree it's as big as you can go! So in theory the 16" BBS would fit over 305.4mm discs, and the 325mm ones will need 17's.

...that photo:

ed325i wrote:The pad is not covering all the disc should it be like that whats the point of having a 280mm disc when you are only using 270mm of it. Still thinking about getting a set. ED

The pad lines up with the O.D. of the disc, not the I.D.... This gives you the maximum braking torque available for a given disc size.

I could turn the inner lip off, but this would ( a ) cost you guys more money for no reason and ( b ) remove thermal mass from the brake system, increasing the temperature of the disc itself for a given amount of energy input (resulting in a lower threshold of brake fade).

ed325i wrote:

keri-WMS wrote:So, do the 15" BBS's fit over the WMS 280mm kit or not?

A picture speaks a thousand words!



The pad is not covering all the disc should it be like that whats the point of having a 280mm disc when you are only using 270mm of it. Still thinking about getting a set.

ED

??

Ok, another way of thinking about it is that the leverage the pad has on the disc>hub>wheel (ie, how powerful the brakes are) is based on the "effective" diameter of the disc, which is based on a point in the centre of the pad (radialy).

So for instance if you had a theoretical 280mm disc with a 40mm high pad, the "effective diameter" of the disc is 240mm. If you have the same disc with a 20mm high pad, the effective diameter goes up to 260mm, and you've not increased the actual diameter of the disc!

In reality all this really means is that a gap under the pad is not a problem, deeper pads would create less powerful brakes.

Another interesting (well, not all that interesting to be honest!!!!) point is that if you have a 300mm disc, and the pad/caliper is 10mm too low (ie, there's 10mm of disc sticking out radialy) the brakes only have the same power as a 280mm setup with the pads in the correct place! The only advantage of the 300mm disc in this case would be it's increased thermal mass, but you'd gain no power whatsoever over the 280mm.

Hi, I was on about this gap

ED

Is it because the pad arent fitted rigth?

Hes right Ed,

Its the leverage, think about when you need to undo a really tight nut its so much easier to use a long breaker bar than a small quarter inch???

Thats the same principle as bigger disks.

Andrew

That same gap was what I was on about as well.... (specifically why it doesn't matter in the slightest)

The bottom line is that the pads are exactly in line with the outside diameter of the disc to give the best performance, it's all exactly as it should be and installed correctly in that photo.

The only reason to lose the spare bit of disc would be to stop it looking rusty once the brakes have been on the car for a while, and I'd be happy to do this - but the extra machining will add £10-£20 to the overall cost for no performance gain at all!

Got you !! better start saving.

ED