E30 Zone

Lads,

whats the differance between s14 and m20 2.5, i know its 6 cyl and it's 2.5, as i just seen the stats on the link page to bmw info, to see the s14 fitted to the 320is, is putting out 192bhp Vs 170 bhp from the m20 2.5. or is this a typo error in the car it's fittied to.

S14 is the Mpower engine as fitted to the E30 M3 and tax break special 320is.

s14 is an m-power unit

I don't think the M3 was available in Italy, and instead they got the baby M3 engine, the 320 is; was never available over here

kettle fish different whole a

Simon you are so FAST; it must be those Hartge wheels.....

rapid fire repiles there lads sound, so if a fella could lay his hands on an 320is then he'd be laughing for a handy jump in power without all the tax. is there much to doing the transplant it being 4cyl eg gearbox,eng mounts wiring, diff etc,etc

orangecurry wrote:Simon you are so FAST; it must be those Hartge wheels.....

Big_M_ wrote:rapid fire repiles there lads sound, so if a fella could lay his hands on an 320is then he'd be laughing for a handy jump in power without all the tax. is there much to doing the transplant it being 4cyl eg gearbox,eng mounts wiring, diff etc,etc

Nope its all dead easy if you keep the Car LHD!

Andrew

Thanks Demlotcrew, but would the hassle swappin to the r/h drive car.

sorry i dont understand your question mate!

Andrew

He means what would the hassle be putting an S14 in a RHD surely?

Exhaust manifold and Throttle cable!

Andrew

Would say the biggest difference between the M20 and the S14 is the running costs.
M20 a bullet proof smooth six , good for 300,000 miles +. S14s a potential money pit. If you want 192 bhp, stick in a M50

stick in a M50

yup ;)

thanks for all the replies there lads, and thanks to Zayyan for the translation

Thing is, the s14 engine weighs 104kg's and the weight is predominantly behind the front wheels.

The m20 and even more so, the m50 is heavier and the weight is further forward.

There are some real handling bebfits from keeping the engine weight down, and far back. This is why I'm in about 18 minds as to which engine to transplant into my 318is with M3 running gear.

Jai

Jaistanley, i was thinking the same thing but as it has been mentioned as a money pit and from what i've heard here the H+R springs are really able to support the weight removing the feeling of a six up front, but i' going for blistein shockers with matched billy springs. mean't to be the job anyone else have any views with about the billy shocks and springs

jaistanley wrote:Thing is, the s14 engine weighs 104kg's and the weight is predominantly behind the front wheels.

The m20 and even more so, the m50 is heavier and the weight is further forward.

There are some real handling bebfits from keeping the engine weight down, and far back. This is why I'm in about 18 minds as to which engine to transplant into my 318is with M3 running gear.

Jai

Where are you getting this information? it certainly isnt behind the front wheels. And its certainly not a light engined car (you need to weigh the gearbox for a S14)

Andrew

I think you should compare the Torque figures of the 2L S14 (320is), and the 2.5 M20 as well. BHP is not everything...

I shouldn't worry about the extra weight of an M20 or even the M50/S50. It makes little difference in the real world if you use a decent spring/shock combo (H&R springs and Billy shocks work well).

Ian.

The engine obviously isn't behind the front wheels but a larger proportion of the engine's total weight IS. The information about weight was taken from various web sites. I have been looking into which engine to swap into my car so have found a few sites..

My point was, if you're swapping engines you must be concious of the weight and distribution issues.

If the M3 gearbox is heavy, so be it. At least the weight is inboard of the front wheels.

I'm not saying there's anything wrong with the 6 pot e30's. I would still quite like a 3.2 evo engine (quite like!! ) just if possible I'm after something lighter with the weight farther back and lower too if pos.

I have toyed with the idea of fitting a Nissan 200sx engine and gearbox but with my time being occupied at work so much now, I'm considering either a M52B28,

Jai

Jai the point im trying to make is that the S14 doesnÔš't offer its good handling characteristics just because it sits behind the front turrets as My M42 sits much further back than my S14 (and they are totaly different cars to drive on the same springs and the same dampers). I do know that the engine has a very good balance from the front to the rear, when the engine was on its mounts (without gearbox) it had near perfect balance, I donÔš't know the real reasons to its advantages but BMW used this engine position on the S14 for a reason as there is much more clearance with a S14 than M42 and even less with a M20.

Andrew

I agree. The engineers at bmw chose the engine position for the M3 based on two issues, physically where it'll fit and because its a homologation, where it best suits the chassis.

Taking the weight of the engine and box low and back is better, full stop(ish). The lower the centre of gravity of the vehicle (especially when we've lowered our cars and lowered the instant roll centre) the better from a dynamic point of view. Lowering the distance between IRC and COM reduces the roll acceleration of the car. Thing is, BMW know this. With the 6 pots they'll have allowed for the weight being further forward by changing the artificial roll stiffness of the suspension both front and rear, and the instant roll centre. Compensating with spring rates, damping rates and roll bars is definately the way forward, yes, but why not try and start from a better weight distribution (if possible)

The net effect of this in the real world isn't huge to you or I. Stick a heavy engine in and don't do any mods, enjoy rolly poly understeer. Compensate with roll bars, dampers and springs, enjoy the ride (not the snappy breakaway characteristics). It's all personal preference.

I still really like the idea of fitting a 6 pot to my car, the torque and power delivery not to mention smootheness and availability appeal to me no end. I just worry I'm not doing the best I can for handling.

I dont want to tread on any toes here man!!!

You've gotta think about how much you want to spend I guess. The 6 pots are loads cheaper, especially when you think about servicing them. Some of the prices for consumables for the s14 are so scary I was put off the idea. I like the idea of fitting a 6 pot BMW engine for the torque, smootheness and especially the fact I can buy a big pile of bits and just swap stuff in a weekend (or week!). Fitting the jap engines I've been looking at means fabrication and surprises. Fitting an s14 yeilds one or two issues but no more than fitting an e36 engine.

Sorry to go on and on...

Jai

Agreed on all accounts above!

The S14 maybe expencive but it has so much potential to have much more power, they are really easy to tune and they respond well to DIY mods (well for me, after rebuilding one).

If i could afford to i would go down the S50 (Like Ian) Or the next best thing is S14!!!

There is a sorry looking one on ebay at the mo Ԛ£500 starting price.

Andrew

Which springs, dampers and anti roll bars do people reccomend for the M52B28 engines?

I currently have H&R sport springs (bought when my car was a standard 318is), full M3 suspension,wheels and ARB's, Koni adjustable rear dampers (stuck on firm) and std M3 front dampers. Bushes are nearly all M3 poly ones (apart from rear ARB and trailing arm to combat evil oversteer I get in wet due to dampers and PANTS tyres).

I planned to fit the Bilstein Sport (shortened ones) from ECP. Another option I've considered is the GAZ adjustable ones. They have a long warraunty and are re-buildable.

Any oppinions?

Jai

the 320is is a fast good to drive car but none of the engine parts are interchangeable and for egsample a distibutor car for a s14 is 200 pound compared to a m20 cap for 33 pound!

my friend had a 320is looked good underbonnet but scary if it pops cheaper to get a m3 really

If you are putting this engine into an E30 that isnt a particularly high profile model, eg not an M3 or sport, you could consider the SR20DET swap instead of a BMW engine.

The power output is in a completely different realm to an M20, and unlike the S14, tuning it to well over 300 bhp is quite cheap. It fits quite well, and alot of SR20DET conversions and guides are available for E30s. I am not sure completely, but I believe it is lighter than both the S14 and the M20. Ive been told its quite a light unit in general.

Worth a look.

Ive been considering it myself, since an SR20DET is half the price of a replacement M10 in Australia.

psychochild187 wrote:the 320is is a fast good to drive car but none of the engine parts are interchangeable and for egsample a distibutor car for a s14 is 200 pound compared to a m20 cap for 33 pound!

my friend had a 320is looked good underbonnet but scary if it pops cheaper to get a m3 really

dizzy caps are nowhere near 200 pound for s14
60 quid yes from bosch but not 200

john

hmmm
my friend was wrong then . he was the guy that told me.

c76jon wrote:

psychochild187 wrote:the 320is is a fast good to drive car but none of the engine parts are interchangeable and for egsample a distibutor car for a s14 is 200 pound compared to a m20 cap for 33 pound!

my friend had a 320is looked good underbonnet but scary if it pops cheaper to get a m3 really

dizzy caps are nowhere near 200 pound for s14
60 quid yes from bosch but not 200

john

I was thinking that just bought one from C3 for Ԛ£53.

Waterpump is expensive for the S14 mind, Ԛ£135!

hang on is the s14 the same engine/ code for the m3 and the 320 is??

psychochild187 wrote:hang on is the s14 the same engine/ code for the m3 and the 320 is??

Yes and no....different capacities, but they share most major components.

I think 320is is known as S14B20

see thats weired as my friend had one the 320is from bugaria and he said very few of the parts would swap over and service items cost a fortune as they didnt swap or interchange.
ill ask him next time i speek . i might of just heard him wrong .hes not normaly wrong.