E30 Zone

Im currently on the lookout for 325i sport as a project/weekend toy, there seems to be a lot of info regarding engine conversions but not much regarding weight,

Im not a fan of just sticking in the biggest lump possible, I much prefer keeping the natural balance of the car, I understand there will be an increase regardless however I would like to keep it as small as possible

And finally no forced induction, im a N/A man

What would people advise as an upgrade im my situation?

2.8 M52 24V goodness.
a M30 will give you more grunt but is heavier. like another 60kg or thereabouts.

what's your budget?

StuBeeDoo wrote:Why not do the 2.8 conversion on the existing M20 engine?

possible, but im just weighing up options before i commit/buy something that is not really what im trying to achive

gareth wrote:2.8 M52 24V goodness.
a M30 will give you more grunt but is heavier. like another 60kg or thereabouts.

what's your budget?

isnt that one all alloy the m52 2.8?

what models did they come in?

as for budget, realistically 1/1.5k for the engine

gareth wrote:2.8 M52 24V goodness.
a M30 will give you more grunt but is heavier. like another 60kg or thereabouts.

57lbs heavier Gareth not 60kg

SPADGE wrote:

gareth wrote:2.8 M52 24V goodness.
a M30 will give you more grunt but is heavier. like another 60kg or thereabouts.

57lbs heavier Gareth not 60kg

in your dreams!

SPADGE wrote:

gareth wrote:2.8 M52 24V goodness.
a M30 will give you more grunt but is heavier. like another 60kg or thereabouts.

57lbs heavier Gareth not 60kg

Try 69kg

leeparkes wrote:

SPADGE wrote:

gareth wrote:2.8 M52 24V goodness.
a M30 will give you more grunt but is heavier. like another 60kg or thereabouts.

57lbs heavier Gareth not 60kg

Try 69kg

brianbedford wrote:isnt that one all alloy the m52 2.8?

what models did they come in?

as for budget, realistically 1/1.5k for the engine

It is indeed. came in the E36 328i and E38 728i afaik

on your budget, you're looking at M30, larger capacity M20 (i have a 2.7 bottom end going spare ), M50 or M52.

the 'M' engines are all out of that price range.

and yes, M30's are heavy but once the front end is say on some proper springs it's not the huge issue everyone will have you believe and with nothing mor than a 1mm head skim to increase CR from 9:1 up to 10:1 mine is making 220bhp and 238lb/ft of torque. that's with a standard airbox, paper filter, standard chip and a LPG backfire flap resticting things a little

leeparkes wrote:

SPADGE wrote:

gareth wrote:2.8 M52 24V goodness.
a M30 will give you more grunt but is heavier. like another 60kg or thereabouts.

57lbs heavier Gareth not 60kg

Try 69kg

Says who?

I have a chart somewhere with the weight of all the engines and according to that an M30 is 57lbs heavier than an M20.

Of course this could be incorect.

that's based on a pre and post conversion weighbridge visit with the same car.
i guess the gearbox, larger rad, alternator etc all add up too.

mine is up to 1400kg with the LPG and M30
however, the torque means it will still outrun a E30 M3 up a hill!

Actually i don't have a chart

It was on the thread below that i read it. About halfway down by a fella called Jon.

http://www.google.co.uk/url?q=http://fo ... lUz9rWUyJQ

SPADGE wrote:

leeparkes wrote:

SPADGE wrote: 57lbs heavier Gareth not 60kg

Try 69kg

Says who?

*cough*

http://www.e30zone.net/modules.php?name ... &start=150

Details are at the top of page 7


And yes i was stunned, even took it to a second weighbrige to make sure.

gareth wrote:that's based on a pre and post conversion weighbridge visit with the same car.
i guess the gearbox, larger rad, alternator etc all add up too.

mine was still running the M20 rad when it went on the bridge so im guessing its a touch heavier now with the E28 slab up front.

So this Jon fella is talking bollox and made me do the same

Maybe like Gareth says this could just be the engine itself ie block/head?

Either way i can see why people are now favouring the later 24 valve lumps.

Id like to see 'real life' weight difference going from M20/b25 to M50/25, also how much weight it sheds with an M52.

SPADGE wrote:So this Jon fella is talking bollox and made me do the same

looks that way!

i bet a lot of published engine weights are from the manufacturers and based on a bare new engine on a pallet

leeparkes wrote:Id like to see 'real life' weight difference going from M20/b25 to M50/25, also how much weight it sheds with an M52.

iirc DanThe posted up some weights a while back, not sure if he had a pre-conversion weight though. Dan?

No pre weight but according to internet figures a 2 door 316 is 1070kg
Mine now weighs 1160kg (quarter tank fuel) with an iron block M52 up front, larger M52 gearbox, also has aircon.

Thread is here - http://www.e30zone.net/modules.php?name ... ht=anchors

I couldnt find any internet based figures for a pre facelift 325i being under 1200kg

The difference between a bare alloy block and a bare iron block is 20kg. M52 rods and pistons are also lighter but it wont total 1kg

Cheers for the info lads its much appreciated

looks like the m52 2.8 is the realistic choice, out of interest how does this stack up weight wise against the standard lump in the e30 325i sport? (sorry im unsure of the correct engine code)

brianbedford wrote:Cheers for the info lads its much appreciated

looks like the m52 2.8 is the realistic choice, out of interest how does this stack up weight wise against the standard lump in the e30 325i sport? (sorry im unsure of the correct engine code)

I would guess it would be lighter than the m20 but how much i dont know.

DanThe wrote:No pre weight but according to internet figures a 2 door 316 is 1070kg
Mine now weighs 1160kg (quarter tank fuel) with an iron block M52 up front, larger M52 gearbox, also has aircon.

Thread is here - http://www.e30zone.net/modules.php?name ... ht=anchors

I couldnt find any internet based figures for a pre facelift 325i being under 1200kg

The difference between a bare alloy block and a bare iron block is 20kg. M52 rods and pistons are also lighter but it wont total 1kg

the other factor you will have (depending on the base car) is the change from a small case diff to a large case, i'm sot sure of the weights of each but it must be an increase of about 10kg

Whats wrong with F/I?

i don't like it personally and i'm not alone.
also, err, the budget?!!!

Most FI cars seem to be forever being tinkered with, which is why im not interested

I need to get my S50'd car on the weigh bridge.. I do have a carbon bonnet that reduces weight by sixteen squillion kilos (well, 11 aparently) but I have a feeling it'll still be fairly heavy.. It's a 325iSE auto, with the MCoupé engine/running gear in there and nothing else that should add weight (apart from my wretched sweaty and saggy man tits).

I'll hazard a guess at 1250kg's??

Jai

Get it done Jai, we need some real life comparisons and not just interweb bull

I weighed mine with 1/4 tank fuel and IIRC Lee did the same with his M30'd chariot

Ive got a complete M52 im stripping ATM, I ought to weigh all the bits, dont have scales big enough for a whole lump!

My 316ilux was exactly 1070 once when I weighed it.

The iS was 1140 but thats with a 4.1 188 LSD, strut braces, lots of electric gimmicks like OBC, cruise-control, maplight mirror, fire extinguishers and loads of other shite(it all adds up )

Be very nice to see the weight of cars before and after engine conversion in a list to know once and for all what the difference is.

What would be very cool is even take wieght over the front and rear wheels to see how it upsets the balance if much at all to each E30.

I have these bare engine weights:

M40B16 132kg
M20B27 175kg
M52B28 170kg
M50B25 198kg
M60B40 210kg
M30B35 212kg
M102 225kg
S38B36 232kg
M70B50 250kg

SR20DET 95kg

BMW engines = anchors

Theo325 wrote:I have these bare engine weights:

M40B16 132kg
M20B27 175kg
M52B28 170kg
M50B25 198kg
M60B40 210kg
M30B35 212kg
M102 225kg
S38B36 232kg
M70B50 250kg

SR20DET 95kg

BMW engines = anchors

What did you do, double them??!!!
Those are miles out!

Found it on e30zone, so it must be true!

As a rough guide with weights ive used for posting in the past, M52 alloy block is 20kg, crank is 25kg, full cylinder head is 30kg, add another 10kg for rods/pistons, sump/oil pump etc and its still only 85kg!

Where are people getting these laughable figures from? Whoever typed them up needs strangling with his mouse cable!

My tech1, that should weigh pretty much the same as a standard car with no p/s or electric windows/sunroof weighs 124?kg

DanThe wrote:As a rough guide with weights ive used for posting in the past, M52 alloy block is 20kg, crank is 25kg, full cylinder head is 30kg, add another 10kg for rods/pistons, sump/oil pump etc and its still only 85kg!

Where are people getting these laughable figures from? Whoever typed them up needs strangling with his mouse cable!

maybe they're fully dressed weights, inc flywheel, clutch, manifolds, alternator etc?

oakey wrote:My tech1, that should weigh pretty much the same as a standard car with no p/s or electric windows/sunroof weighs 124?kg

My facelift 325i weighed 1242kg on an 'accurate' weighbridge, couple of days later the car was took off the road and the M20 was removed and replaced with an M30/b35, few days after the swap it went back on the same weighbridge and weighed in at 1311kg so it gained 69kg.
With an M30 its not just the bare engine that gains weight,the gearbox is bigger so is the clutch and big dual mass flywheel,inlet manifold is huge along with other bigger items as in alternator,starter,pas pump,etc.. plus beefys mounts ain't exactly light.

IMO i dont think the M50 would gain that much weight over an M20, the block is virtually the same size but the head is heavier BUT the manifold is plastic. id put money on an M52 swap making an M20 E30 lighter over the nose.

Ill be doing a 24v swap early next year on my compact,this also will be going on the bridge before the swap and i know its not an e30 but its not that much heavier than one (1275kg) plus the engine what will be coming out will be an M44 which is similar to an M42 so it could be used as a comparison

So who's next

who really gives a toss tbh?
your making more power fitting a bigger heavier more powerful engine..... adjust yourself as a driver!!!?
go into the corners slower.... fit better brakes.... come out of the corners on the throttle on opposite lock, muchous fasterz, carry the speed down the straights.... the torque ohhhh the torque of a m30 at 3000 rpm (a mans engine btw).


you know what i mean ,a driver adjusts himself to the car to make the best of it. stop worrying about a few kgs here and there and be a man and drive a car!!!!!