E30 Zone

.... anyone has aquired from a 2.7 M20 ?

Interested to hear ????

Many thanks

MM

I think it 210bhp iirc without turbo's cargers etc

just being a 2.7 gives it about 210 doesnt it? there would be scope to upgrade cams,chip etc after that i would guess?

225bhp in ozwaldos one IIRC.

see my next thread !!!!

I am after some advice... really.. mainly around the M20. I know it is a wrong en..but for reasons I care not to get into we have to stay with an M20 2.7 NA.. Money no object what do we do to get big BHP

Cloud is doing something wild with an M20/b27 (could be a b28 though )
he is expecting high figures!

leeparkes wrote:Cloud is doing something wild with an M20/b27 (could be a b28 though )
he is expecting high figures!

I think the figures he's expecting are somewhat optimistic TBH...

There's a guy in Australia on here with a 3.0 M20 with nigh on 260bhp, but it's got some very trick bits. March109s 2.8 M20 put down 220bhp last year with poor fueling.

It's all down to the depth of your pocket's.

my current 2.7 makes 220bhp... i need more

I also have a fairy godmother who will pay for it

Just whack a huge turbo on it and boost all the way to 4 figure power.

what crank do you have in your current engine?

i would think 230bhp is more than achievable with good driveability across the entire rev range but you need to spend the $$$ and choose the right bits. Just having a 2.7 engine isn't enough you need all the other specs to be correct.

reggid wrote:i would think 230bhp is more than achievable with good driveability across the entire rev range but you need to spend the $$$ and choose the right bits. Just having a 2.7 engine isn't enough you need all the other specs to be correct.

Agreed, an engine needs to be thought out carfully, and parts and specs chosen to complment each other. It always makes me laugh when people say they are going to build a great N/A engine, then turbo it later to make it even better. I'm not saying it cant be done but big compremises will have to be made. Better to stars with a clear plan and stick to it.

maggspower wrote:what crank do you have in your current engine?

ETA... I have to Run NA for racing regs. The car is an original 325 i sport kindly donated by mummy MM for racing purposes. It runs in the TTRS as a 325e. This alows me to run a 2.7 under the regs.
My predicment is more BHP... the current engine is strong and very reliable at 220bhp however has zero chance up against S14s that are tuned. In its current format it will easily make mince meat of a group N M3s, however nobody runs group N M3s in racing circles and the ones I come up against they are mostly kicking out circa 250BHP +.
I need a COLLECTIVE group E30 Zone M20 2.7 help discussion.. It is a dream of mine to be able to beat the S14s with an M20 2.7... My current car is almost there but falls down in power ( bless her heart). Let us use my car as an S14 killer.... it has to be done for the sake of us poooooooor M20 owners...

I have invested to much time and money into my car to thow it away and buy an M3 E30... I have considered it however feel a large degree of loyalty and Blood,sweat and tears to my dear old 325 sport.

Help..otherwise she is going to put back on the road

One advantage the S14 will always have over the M20.......Less Weight..........

My car weighs 1040kg... appreciate the S14 is loads lighter. However I feel surprinsingly more happy with weight over the front.. it suits my driving style

MartyMcfly wrote:

maggspower wrote:what crank do you have in your current engine?

ETA... I have to Run NA for racing regs. The car is an original 325 i sport kindly donated by mummy MM for racing purposes. It runs in the TTRS as a 325e. This alows me to run a 2.7 under the regs.
My predicment is more BHP... the current engine is strong and very reliable at 220bhp however has zero chance up against S14s that are tuned. In its current format it will easily make mince meat of a group N M3s, however nobody runs group N M3s in racing circles and the ones I come up against they are mostly kicking out circa 250BHP +.
I need a COLLECTIVE group E30 Zone M20 2.7 help discussion.. It is a dream of mine to be able to beat the S14s with an M20 2.7... My current car is almost there but falls down in power ( bless her heart). Let us use my car as an S14 killer.... it has to be done for the sake of us poooooooor M20 owners...

I have invested to much time and money into my car to thow it away and buy an M3 E30... I have considered it however feel a large degree of loyalty and Blood,sweat and tears to my dear old 325 sport.

Help..otherwise she is going to put back on the road

You've got your work cut out, but being a m20b27 owner I like your style

It must be said that many people would be very happy with the out put of your current engine!!

PM coming your way

To beat the S14's, your gonna be looking at around 270Bhp, maybe 280...but they might just get you in the corners.....

fuzzy wrote:just being a 2.7 gives it about 210 doesnt it? there would be scope to upgrade cams,chip etc after that i would guess?

Not disputing your advice however I have yet, to come up against a 2.7 out of the box that makes 210bhp... i think ( My opinion) BMWs marketing/data is very optimistic. I have seen well built,high compression,schrick camd,stand alone mangement NA 2.7s make just 208-210 on the rollers. I appreciate that you have to take the variables of different rolling roads etc.. however my common sense says to me a new 2.7 with high lift cam,stand alone management,bigger TB,machined head etc should add at leastadd another 10BHP... agreed???

hartge made a special h27 model which produced about 220bhp iirc, it had itb Theo maybe able to shed more light.

kam-325i wrote:To beat the S14's, your gonna be looking at around 270Bhp, maybe 280...but they might just get you in the corners.....

Check out my in car vids... I can catch those pesky M3s in the corners The dear old girl is also getting larger brakes , so I can also brake later thanI have been on the standard crap...

Bigger brakes,30-50+ more BHP and I reckon we are getting there We have to make her win... help... my mum is getting bored of me telling her we came 5th again... She has pledged an open cheque book to see her old girl win a race... come on chaps.. help us out.. we need to win at least once before the old girl retires to sheltered accomodation... !

I got a price for a 280bhp m20 about 10k in parts alone, 0.2 litre makes very little difference in chasing BHP, infact a 2.5 should Rev better getting more power 7k. One of the Kunho e30's made 260 on the rollers (all the khumo cars are checked on the dyno to comply with the power to weight ratio requirements)


These engines made 280bhp in the 70's in grp 2 e21's with 2.3l, 100bhp/litre for a 2V race engine is not uncommon.

If you want a big power m20 talk to Ric Wood, he turns out 380bhp 2.5 s14's and knows his way around m20's

Jason

From this you will see what I mean about more power!

87mtech27 wrote:hartge made a special h27 model which produced about 220bhp iirc, it had itb Theo maybe able to shed more light.

H27SP running ITBs, 215bhp (H27 205bhp)

Never ever seen an SP in the flesh.

MartyMcfly wrote:From this you will see what I mean about more power!

what have you done for the handling it looks to me your e30 is all over the place and the m3 was more at ease in the corners taking tighter lines what have you done to lighten the load on the car

MartyMcfly wrote:

fuzzy wrote:just being a 2.7 gives it about 210 doesnt it? there would be scope to upgrade cams,chip etc after that i would guess?

Not disputing your advice however I have yet, to come up against a 2.7 out of the box that makes 210bhp... i think ( My opinion) BMWs marketing/data is very optimistic. I have seen well built,high compression,schrick camd,stand alone mangement NA 2.7s make just 208-210 on the rollers. I appreciate that you have to take the variables of different rolling roads etc.. however my common sense says to me a new 2.7 with high lift cam,stand alone management,bigger TB,machined head etc should add at leastadd another 10BHP... agreed???

that wasnt advice mate, i was just thinking aloud about what ive read on here from others who have 2.7's.
for me turbo's are were its at.

Marty, are you allowed to run ITB's? If so, go for a very spikey cam, and make it rev(the expensive bit ) No point in running a massively spikey cam if you can't put it on ITB's IMO.

There was a 24v head made for the m20, maybe 2 , and they have never been seen in 4 years I have been on the zone. I doubt you'd be allowed to run that either.

Jon_Bmw wrote:Marty, are you allowed to run ITB's? If so, go for a very spikey cam, and make it rev(the expensive bit ) No point in running a massively spikey cam if you can't put it on ITB's IMO.

There was a 24v head made for the m20, maybe 2 , and they have never been seen in 4 years I have been on the zone. I doubt you'd be allowed to run that either.

1 of thoseis definatly in the US, I did try buying it last year, but it was faaar to expensive.

town325i wrote:

MartyMcfly wrote:From this you will see what I mean about more power!

what have you done for the handling it looks to me your e30 is all over the place and the m3 was more at ease in the corners taking tighter lines what have you done to lighten the load on the car

+1
You were losing valuble time losing traction and in the handling dept. My first thought when reading through the thread was weight shedding and handling if power was becoming an issue. There is a thread I've read recently about an E30 track car that was being stripped out for weight loss (carbon boot, bonnet, roof panel, etc.) and this seemed to lose a crap load of weight alone. A lighter car will be more flickable, will brake better, easier on the tyres and obviously faster on acceleration. Also on the traction side of things, maybe try different tyres as you seemed to have some trouble out of corners- maybe your driving style is too aggressive? Maybe tyres not up to it?

Only an opinion based on reading this and watching vids!! So please don't feel I'm stating the obvious to you!!
Good thread to read and good luck- love it that you staying loyal to your car

march109 wrote:

Jon_Bmw wrote:Marty, are you allowed to run ITB's? If so, go for a very spikey cam, and make it rev(the expensive bit ) No point in running a massively spikey cam if you can't put it on ITB's IMO.

There was a 24v head made for the m20, maybe 2 , and they have never been seen in 4 years I have been on the zone. I doubt you'd be allowed to run that either.

1 of thoseis definatly in the US, I did try buying it last year, but it was faaar to expensive.

Blimey, too expensive for you?? How bloody much was that little gem then? I know you're not afraid of investing!!

suchy wrote:

march109 wrote:

Jon_Bmw wrote:Marty, are you allowed to run ITB's? If so, go for a very spikey cam, and make it rev(the expensive bit ) No point in running a massively spikey cam if you can't put it on ITB's IMO.

There was a 24v head made for the m20, maybe 2 , and they have never been seen in 4 years I have been on the zone. I doubt you'd be allowed to run that either.

1 of thoseis definatly in the US, I did try buying it last year, but it was faaar to expensive.

Blimey, too expensive for you?? How bloody much was that little gem then? I know you're not afraid of investing!!

I have my limits, especially when the 24valve head is basically an M50 head with some shaving and then a sandwich plate welded onto it to line up the water channels.

Lets just say at the then exchange rate it was still over a bag of sand before shipping and the shipping!!

What have you done so far and what is allowed? 6branch? Lightened fly wheel?

Replace the crank for a forged item and up the rev limit? High lift cam and uprated rockers and stiffer valve springs should help the engine not throw itself apart too.

Gareth was shocked...
I have my limits, especially when the 24valve head is basically an M50 head with some shaving and then a sandwich plate welded onto it to line up the water channels.
Lets just say at the then exchange rate it was still over a bag of sand before shipping and the shipping!!

Mmm, point taken!!

It might help if you list ALL the modifications you have done so far (engine, trans, suspension, braking, body, wheels/tyres, weightloss, etc.) in order for people to offer more specific advice? Also would be interesting to read!!

suchy wrote:It might help if you list ALL the modifications you have done so far (engine, trans, suspension, braking, body, wheels/tyres, weightloss, etc.) in order for people to offer more specific advice? Also would be interesting to read!!

Good point, theres plenty more that can be done with the areas already modded if you haven't already gone for an optimum setup.