Accident Advice Help to Zoners

Need technical Q/A then you're in the right place
Ilkorin
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Fri Jan 16, 2009 8:37 pm

hmm... as long as I don't get lumbered with any extra hire charges it's not all that bad - 250 is the settlement they offered, which is quite low but the car is worth 750 if you take all the extra parts at purchase value, so in all fairness it's not gonna get much better than that.

Unfortunate this thread hadn't come up a week or two earlier or I would have remembered to get them to recover it to my place... now I'm not sure how to even pick the bits off it if it's written off at that low value (although I've already pinched the stereo)

time to get fit with the bike then methinks :p

Thanks for the advice and expertise, this is a really valuable thread
Jon_Bmw
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Fri Jan 16, 2009 11:04 pm

Have they got your credit card details?
m4xos
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Fri Jan 16, 2009 11:31 pm

useful good tips, thanks, am taking them all into consideration apealin to my case!!
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Joshy
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Sat Jan 24, 2009 2:49 pm

E30Beemerlad I was hoping to get your advice on something.

My mother had an accident on a roundabout about 4 months ago. I don't know all the details, but from what I understand she was in the inside lane looks to go aross the roundabout, the guy in the outside lane speed up and tried to cut her up by moving suddenly into her lane and they colided clausing sracthing to the guy's car and a dent on the front 1/4 panel of my mother Megane.

They exchanged details, but she only recieved a mobile number of the guy and no insurance details as the guy didn't think he was insured. She tried calling the guy a couple of times each day for a week or so with no answer. Eventaully she gave up as the damage to her car was very minor and the fact that the car only has a few months ticket left before it visits the scrapyard for good.

Anyway, just this week out of the blue she's just recieved a letter from a solicitor representing the other guy claiming for £4,000 for the damage of the hire car he was driving! :eek:

She wasn't sure how to go about fighting this. She told her insurance company and they said that they'll fight it if she sends in all the details of the accident that she has (which is bascailly sod all), but I wanted to double check with a 3rd party to know if they are actually going to fight it and not settle (at the cost of her 8 years NCB) like I've heard being done before!

Any thoughts?

Thanks

Josh
Last edited by Joshy on Sat Jan 24, 2009 3:34 pm, edited 2 times in total.
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Sat Jan 24, 2009 3:01 pm

Roundabout collisions have a habit of being settled on a 50/50 basis, which means your old dear's insurers would pay 50% of the other party's claim. This in essence is apportioning liabilty at 50% for each driver.

If such a settlement was agreed by her insurers this would entitle your mum to seek 50% of her damages from his insurers. If the dude did not have insurance she could possibly claim the 50% from the Motor Insurers Bureau, but if it was not reported to the police within 14 days then they'll reject the claim, plus there is a £300 excess with MIB claims, so by the time she's cut her losses in half and then deducted the £300 the MIB won't pay, she'll probably be left with nowt worth claiming for.

All she can do in this situation is co-operate with her insurers and give a concise description with good quality diagram clearly showing the lane markings and position of vehicles and where each party came from (joined the roundabout) and where the collision took place. Go to Google Maps and get a satellite view and zoom in to see the lane markings and arrows.

But usually if it is a roundabout smack, no independent witness evidence for either party and the areas of damage and nature of damage are consistent with either party's description, the insurers will go 50/50 on it as that would be the likely outcome at court.

If they settle 50/50 or make any payment to the other side your mum's NCB will be affected.
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Joshy
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Sat Jan 24, 2009 3:44 pm

I think my wording in my previous post confused things - Mum isn't interesting in claiming at all from the accident. The damage was minor, the car is getting binned, it's swings and roundabouts. It's the guy who hit her who is trying to claim for something he did!

Is the guy allowed to bring this up after 4 months of zero contact? He has suddenly made the jump from not answering his calls to taking it to court!

She just wants this all to go away - She's looking to get her first high performance car within the next couple of weeks, she really doesn't need to lose her NCB and have a claim added because of some tit who couldn't be arsed to wait in morning traffic!

Thanks

Josh
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Sat Jan 24, 2009 3:50 pm

The dude who hit her will have been to some sort of accident management company who will have stuck his butt in a credit hire car and arranged for credit repairs. The people who arranged this for him most likely will have been in touch with your mum's insurers at an early stage.

Either way, the situation she now has is that it does not matter how long he has been off the radar, he has damage to his car, will allege your mother was the one that turned into him or was in the wrong lane etc, if there are no witnesses your mum can't prove otherwise any more than he can prove she was in the wrong, which is why the case will go 50/50.

This will affect her no claims discount unless there is sufficient evidence to prove her version of events over his, in which case it will end up at court.

Whilst all of this is going on (and it could go on for another 12 months or more) your mum's insurers will not allow her full NCB until the case ends in a situation where a court finds he was 100% at fault, which would then mean your mum's insurers would not have to pay any money out, so they would then allow the bonus.

Odds are, as I said, the case will end up with some sort of split liability settlement, which will affect her NCD.
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Fri Jan 30, 2009 4:49 pm

how do i go about withdrawing a claim ?

I parked my E36 outside my house, the neighbour from opposite me backed out of her drive into my car, Damaging the rear offside door.
I phoned my insurance to report the claim, gave them her details and so on.......

They told me during this phone call that the repair bill to replace the door will be around £700, car valued at £800. So they said that they would be looking at writing the car off and getting a recovery firm to collect the car so that they can inspect it. The next day i sourced a replacement door for £30..........
I have told the recovery firm not to collect the car as i am withdrawing the claim.

Bacically, i now cant be arsed with all the agro of losing the car, do i just write to them saying i wish to withdraw the claim ?

car is now fixed for £30 + 1hr of my time.....How do they jusify £700 ?
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Banjo1981
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Fri Jan 30, 2009 4:54 pm

Just call and tell them, they should be happy to close it all off over the phone (I know we are!).
Jon_Bmw
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Fri Jan 30, 2009 4:56 pm

Door £300?
Paint £150? with the ability to stretch much more if other panels need blending
3 hours of labour £200
Car hire £50-200

They can't get their mate little jonny to fix it with his second hand door, in the same colour as your car can they, whilst on his lunchbreak at MaccyD's.
kam-325i
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Fri Jan 30, 2009 5:05 pm

Jon_Bmw wrote: They can't get their mate little jonny to fix it with his second hand door, in the same colour as your car can they
Why not.....I did !!!!

£300 for a bare door.........Jesus H Christ..........
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Jon_Bmw
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Fri Jan 30, 2009 6:37 pm

If its not that much I would certainly expect it to be once the fitter has transfered all of your bits too the new door.

I presume thats not a serious question above.
E30BeemerLad
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Fri Jan 30, 2009 7:49 pm

Yep, just call your insurers to cancel the claim and tell them you have settled up directly with the third party or something. Shouldn't be a problem and your NCD should remain intact.

Don't forget though that you will have to disclose this little incident when getting future quotes though as this will still be in the system most likely, despite the claim being cancelled.

You have to listen to the questions they ask you when you get a quote, they usually ask "any ACCIDENTS or claims in the last 3/5 years" If you say no and then have a claim later in the year you can bet this little incident would be thrown back at you and excuses made by the insurers as to why they don't have to pay you out for non-disclosure issues.
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Fri Jan 30, 2009 7:53 pm

i was about to add that even though no claim has been made its still on your record regardless once they know about it.
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Fri Jan 30, 2009 8:02 pm

Jon_Bmw wrote:I presume thats not a serious question above.
No its not dude........

Nearly all of the internet quoting pages wont accept a £0.00 on the "Cost of Claim" bit when declaring a claim......
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E30BeemerLad
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Fri Jan 30, 2009 8:11 pm

Yes I know what you mean, I had this situation after the missus plonked the soarer. I'd only had the car about 10 weeks when she smacked it into a signpost after a big lairy bit of oversteer on a roundabout.

No other vehicle involved and being a good citizen I phoned plod and said my vehicle had belted a road sign and gave them the location. Started a claim on my comp policy and was told the car was a write off, they offered be about 75% less than I paid for the car 3 months beforehand and I knew we were going to have a long old slog agreeing a settlement figure. Realising the amount my premiums would increase by and how little i would get off my insurers I chose to abandon the claim.

Trouble was because I had been a good boy and reported the signpost damage my insurers wanted to keep the claim open for 15 months before they would allow my NCD.

I too had problems on any online quote being able to disclose the accident but put no costs or explain the scenario.

That's when you realise your business is better off with a proper broker who speaks to you and knows what they are doing.
Rav335uk
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Fri Jan 30, 2009 10:12 pm

Quick question, about agreed value policies.
With Adrian flux with an agreed value on my policy.What happens in a claim on that then, fully comp and non fault????
Just a question not reality.
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E30BeemerLad
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Fri Jan 30, 2009 10:17 pm

If you have an agreed value policy, usually you have to send pics of the car and evidence of the servicing and mods etc and they may then agree your valuation and you get issued with a certificate. If you haven't got the certificate they'll shaft you.

In the event of an accident, you submit your claim form and a copy of the certificate of valuation and bish bosh you get your money, less excess.

If it was a non-fault claim then you would still be better claiming on your own policy and using the agreed valuation certificate. If you were to claim from the person who hit you, their insurers couldn't give a stuff about your agreed valuation as that is only binding with your own insurers, so the third party's insurers would give you "market value" for the car.

You would still claim your excess back from the other lot and your insurers would then go and rape them for their agreed value outlay.
Rav335uk
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Fri Jan 30, 2009 10:20 pm

When you say a certificate, do you mean a totally seperate on to the policy, as its stated on my policy with the value.
Also when i offered to send in pictures, they said they didn't need them
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E30BeemerLad
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Fri Jan 30, 2009 10:27 pm

I would recommend you give your insurer/broker a ring and double check the agreed valuation thing is actually that and that it defo means you would get that exact sum (less any excess) in the event of a claim and not market value.

I'm dubious about any agreed valuation policy that has not issued a certificate of valuation after looking at details of the vehicle.

The certificate is usually a separate document unless it specifies on your insurance policy schedule under "insured value" for example "Insured Value £5000 - Agreed valuation" or something similar. If it just says "INsured value £4000" and nowt else and you haven't got a certificate, then that just means you told them it was worth 4 bags when they asked you what it was worth when you got the quote, it certainly wouldn't mean they would pay you 4 bags if you had a claim.
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Fri Jan 30, 2009 10:29 pm

Rav335uk wrote:When you say a certificate, do you mean a totally seperate on to the policy, as its stated on my policy with the value.
Also when i offered to send in pictures, they said they didn't need them
thats not an agreed value. ive been shafted like that at claim time from adrian flux in my youth.
Rav335uk
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Fri Jan 30, 2009 10:29 pm

Cheers, will follow that up on monday.
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E30BeemerLad
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Fri Jan 30, 2009 10:34 pm

Usually, an agreed valuation policy is a "top up/ add-on" to your main policy, cost is about £35ish.
Elecblondie
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Fri Feb 06, 2009 2:12 pm

Yesterday I came round a bend on a single track country lane to find a white van. I was driving at 15mph very carefully, the van was some distance off as I saw him but traveling fast (about 50mph I would estimate), I assumed we would both slow down and find an amicable passing place but a moment later it occurred to me that he was not slowing down, near to last minute I had to drive my car straight off the road as he drove as if I wasn't there. he watched me go off and barely slowed down as he rounded the bend, leaving me behind. I didn't catch the reg but it was a UKMail van. The damage done was small (I was going at about walking pace), just a broken exhaust and bent front valance/lip broken off. It's not the damage I'm annoyed about it was the attempt to crash into me 8O. I have contacted the company who are apparently 'trying' to work out who was driving but all the drivers are self-employed. Fortunately a local with a land rover was happy to pull me out.

My first question is: Does the company have a duty of care in this incident?
the other is: what should I do?
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E30BeemerLad
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Fri Feb 06, 2009 6:17 pm

Pretty much wasting your time with them Rich.

If the drivers are all self employed they are never going to trace the vehicle and if they are owner/ drivers they will have their own insurance rather than UKMail/ Business Post.

Your problem is the burden of proof of establishing it was actually them. Big companies like this are coonts to deal with as to be fair to them, they are often the victims of fraudulent cases where they are a common site on the roads and people have been in the habit of having a silly prang that is their fault and decide to try & blame it on UK Mail, Securicor, Post Office etc, basically any very large fleet, so they don't roll over when a situation like this occurs.

Personally, I'd chalk this one up mate. By all means keep hassling them but if they won't roll over (which is unlikely) then I'd forget about it.

The only way anybody would be rock solid as far as proving a version of events happend would be to have CCTV fitted to their vehicle. Most bus companies have this now for this reason.
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Fri Feb 06, 2009 6:37 pm

E30BeemerLad wrote: The only way anybody would be rock solid as far as proving a version of events happend would be to have CCTV fitted to their vehicle. Most bus companies have this now for this reason.
If only they'd had this on a bus in Plumstead high street, SE London, a few years back, which abruptly pulled out just as I was passing it en route to work in my Minor Traveller - crunch went the nearside front wing and headlamp as I had to jam on the brakes and skid into the rear of it. The bus company denied all knowledge of the incident, even lying about the bus number being on that route :x
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E30BeemerLad
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Fri Feb 06, 2009 6:40 pm

Ah, but the CCTV would have been broken on that day :)
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Fri Feb 06, 2009 6:45 pm

Conveniently for them, it most probably would have been!
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Sat Feb 07, 2009 9:56 am

Cheers for the advice.
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Speedtouch
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Tue Feb 17, 2009 7:05 pm

What's the scenario if, as I did last week, you spin off and write off your car due to a badly drained section of dual carriageway - water and mud pouring straight off a field onto the road?
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I have provided as much detail to my insurer as possible including photos of the car (and another that came off the road at the same point a few days later!), the road, etc. They currently have listed me as 'at fault'.

I visited my local police station and tried to obtain the accident statistics for this section of road, but they said I need to contact the council about this.

I phoned the insurer today enquiring about buying the salvage, which has been taken to a bodyshop. They said they don't usually allow it to be bought back, and instead get it crushed but would look into it and get back to me...
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Speedtouch
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Wed Feb 18, 2009 7:52 pm

Bump
///M aurice
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Jon_Bmw
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Wed Feb 18, 2009 7:54 pm

Pretty sure it would go along the lines of:

"Not driving in accordance with the conditions" or something like that. :(

They'd probably argue you should only drive so that you can stop in time of any road condition, pish really as at night, no one would go over about 35.
Banjo1981
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Wed Feb 18, 2009 8:02 pm

Speedtouch wrote:They currently have listed me as 'at fault'.

I phoned the insurer today enquiring about buying the salvage, which has been taken to a bodyshop. They said they don't usually allow it to be bought back, and instead get it crushed but would look into it and get back to me...
They'll have you listed at fault until they make a recovery. It's just a technicallity. Unfortunately Jon_BMW is prob right though.

Make it expressly known that any settlement MUST include you retaining the salvage and dont send them the original V5 (just a photocopy).

If they then still go ahead and crush it, you can gouge them for some compensation above and beyond the value of the vehicle.
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Fri Feb 20, 2009 2:23 pm

Sorry, didn't spot this and been away at a funeral.

Find out where the car is located and phone the people who have it and tell them you are looking to buy the salvage back and NOT to dispose of etc until first speaking with you. Have you sent in the V5 & spare keys to your insurer yet?

Keep on at the insurers about getting the salvage back. Have you been paid out yet?

As far as the water across the road is concerned, you potentially have a case as there is clearly some defect with the drainage, but it will be a struggle.

The information you require about record of accidents etc for that section of road is called "Stats 19 Data" and you should contact whichever authority is responsible for that section of road, usually local council. There may be a fee for it.

The bottom line with your possible claim is that you have to establish the accident happened as a result of the breach of duty of care of the responsible authority to satisfactrily maintain the section of highway, or that there has been a defective design/ function of the drainage.

Local authorities, in order to get off the hook with this type of scenario, need to establish that they have a satisfactory system of inspection in place. For example, once every 2-3 months they have someone survey the section of highway, looking for any problems with the road surface, drainage, crash barriers etc etc. If the person doing the survey spots a problem, they note it and then works are scheduled to take place to rectify. Depending on the nature of the defect, they have to decide if it is something that needs immediate rectification because it is highly likely it will cause an accident or injury and death, or if it is someting that can be done in the future at some point and is a low risk.

If they can show records the problem has been spotted and that works are scheduled, they most likely will have a defence under section 58 of the Highways Act.

If they have no record of the problem, you will be in a stronger position. The records of many accidents taking place there will certainly be a good bit of evidence for you to have.

This is a case where the prospects are not guaranteed (certainly not yet), I would not take it on as a no-win no-fee case, but if you have legal cover with your motor insurance, I would contact the necessary people and see if they can refer you to their preferred solicitors. They won't let me deal as legal expense insurers are fussy about which firms they will let deal with their customer's claims as they lose control of some aspects if a non-panel firm deals, so they just say they will refuse to indemnify the costs if you use your own chosen solicitor.
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Fri Feb 20, 2009 3:01 pm

Thanks for the top advice BeemerLad :D The insurer did phone to notify me that they are paying out (a quite agreeable sum from the outset, surprisingly - one advantage of agreed value comprehensive classic car insurance).

They haven't asked me for the V5 and spare keys yet.

I shall get onto the approved bodyshop about the salvage, and look into acquiring the Stats 19 Data...

Thanks again,
///M aurice
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