rust

[munky30]

Big patch of it at the front of the drivers side sill.

Cant get pics as I dont have a camera... but you can push things through it. Its right at the front of the sill, under the car, in front of the jacking point...

Be gentle, I'm feeling fragile today...

Scrap it or repair it?

[oakey]

repair it! please dont scrap it

[maxfield]

Once theres it's a bastard to get rid of.

[munky30]

Well, all I want is for it to pass its mot in a week so a bodged repair would be adequate... and I'm going to hunt down a rot free one this year... but after just putting in the engine... I'll be gutted if I cant get it through mot..

I will try and get some pics, but from what I've said.. is it even repairable? looks like the kind of place you cant just weld in a new section...

[oakey]

its allways bodgeable!

[munky30]

bloody hope so. Getting very pissed off with this car right now.

[charlE30]

Most things can be repaired dude, have a look at this http://www.e30zone.net/modules.php?name ... ht=#588034

On one of my cars I've had both jacking point (even though there not jacking points!!) areas done, quite simple with some plate, just make sure it's cut back to good metal and treated well after..

Get some photo's up if possible
your car can't be scrapped, it's one of a kind

Charlie

[munky30]

Oh its one of a fucking kind all right... Never before have I had so much grief from one car, that I've driven so little.

Roughly how much will a back street garage want for this kind of welding? (I know without pics you cant say for sure, but say forinstance it needed a whole new sill and part of the floorpan done)

Engine swap, loom swaps, drivetrain repairs I can (apparently) do myself... but I cant weld.

[march109]

Oh its one of a ******* kind all right... Never before have I had so much grief from one car, that I've driven so little.

Roughly how much will a back street garage want for this kind of welding? (I know without pics you cant say for sure, but say forinstance it needed a whole new sill and part of the floorpan done)

Engine swap, loom swaps, drivetrain repairs I can (apparently) do myself... but I cant weld.

Learn on the job like you did with the engine, can't be that hard can it?

[munky30]

well theres the small detail that I dont have a welder... or any tools.

All of the tools I used were borrowed and I dont have them anymore. All I have now is 17mm, 13mm, 12mm and 10mm spanners.

I'm also fed up of working on it, I want it to work/pass its mot next week... then I just want to use the bloody thing.

I'm supposed to be going to a drift practice this weekend and its not looking likely as I dont have an exhaust. And the mot is next week and its not going to pass that...

[gcorky]

patching,is cheap 20,30 pounds round here for 1-2 inch sill holes....
cheaper than a good bottle of wine

dont even think about scrapping....over a holed sill ,most e30s have got or had that problem....buck up man

[munky30]

its more than a 2 inch hole... looks like about 6 inches of floorpan/sill are gone..

[handpaper]

Buying a used MIG and doing it yourself will almost certainly be cheaper than paying somebody else to do it, added to which you'll learn loads.

I'm assuming the carpet is out already, taking the seat out too will make the job easier by giving you more room.

Start by cutting back the rotten stuff. Tinsnips are one of the easier ways; garden shears also work but it's not very good for them.
Scour the surrounding inch or so, inside and out, with a wire brush, get it down to bare metal. Wear leather work gloves or gardening gloves to do this, rusty metal edges are *sharp*.
The hole will look *huge* at this point (I could easily fit my fist through the hole in mine .
Any steel over 1mm thick will do for patching; surface rust isn't a problem but make sure it's clean where you're going to weld it.
Cut your patch roughly to shape. Don't worry too much about it fitting over the corrugations in the floorpan at this time; if it covers the hole and the edges are on the bare metal, that's OK.
Practice a few times welding some scrap metal together - it's harder than it looks but you'll get the knack of it soon (there are many guides/courses online you can look at, too).
When you're confident (well, not terrified at least ), you can begin welding your patch in. Start by welding one edge - find an area where it fits well and weld that bit. Hammer the next bit into a close fit and weld that. Carry on until your patch is welded all round.
You may need more than one patch (I needed three!); carry on until there is solid metal everywhere there was hole before.

Oh, and do all this from the *inside* of the car. Not only will you not be trying to weld upside-down (which is a pain, and molten steel rains down on you ), but being inside means there will be less draughts blowing the MIG gas away, giving you better welds.

It also helps to have someone standing by with a wet rag to put out the small fires you will start when you weld over a sealed seam.

When you're done, paint inside and out with Hammerite or similar to prevent it rusting again. The outside should be undersealed, too, but the paint will do for a little while.

[munky30]

hmm

I will weigh up the cost when I get a quote for the work. Its not I'm scared to do it, and I'm sure i would be able to pick it up quick enough. But... well ok I'm scared I'd fuck up/set fire to my car...

I am considering it though as an option. Seems being able to patch up rust is a very useful skill with e30's.

[fugazi33]

First things first, if you weld it up yourself make sure you use the eye shield! Arc eye is real nasty and will feel like someone's gritblasting your eyeballs for 24 hours And in the long term can mess your eyesight up.

You can also hire mig welders through tool hire shops nowadays, for about £50 a week, read a few internet guides and practice on some steel offcuts, a grinder would be handy, but not essential as you can do everything with hand tools, my tips would be to clean the metal up as good as you can as migs hate dirty metal & will spit a lot and give nasty looking welds! Cut back to good metal and tack the plate in place all round before fully welding it. Scrapping a car because of a bit of welding is rather extreme, but be aware that if it's gone there it may have rotted in other places so have a good look about in the floors, bulkhead, sills & inner wheelarches, take your time & you'll be ok, good luck

[nr]

If you fancy having a crack at it yourself, there's a good online tutorial at http://www.mig-welding.co.uk/

One thing that doesn't get mentioned though - from experience, I'd say that pure CO2 is better than an argon/CO2 mix for slightly rusty metal.. You don't need a big welder - in fact, for bodywork, the opposite is true - many 'budget' welders have a lowest setting that is really a bit brutal for bodywork. I've got a Clarke 90Pro, which is fine for bodywork, and will weld up to about 2.5mm steel. (Ignore the 4mm claim the manufacturers make for this machine. It's codswallop). It's pretty much the cheapest welding set you can do anything useful with to be honest. Avoid like the plague anything with a 'live torch' as you'll be striking an arc up before you pull the trigger.

If you do start a small fire in a bit of underseal or whatever, don't worry about it - remember that you've got a very effective CO2 extinguisher in your hand: if you pull the trigger on the welding torch about half way you'll start the gas flowing without actually striking an arc, which is handy for putting out little fires.

There's also a a lively forum at the above site which has all sorts of useful advice. Well worth a look.

[marty1979]

My car went in for the MOT a couple of months back, I got a phone call to say it failed on corrosion on the rear suspension strut in the boot. He said it needed welding, I worryingly asked how much it would cost to weld and I was suprised when he said £40. Not too bad at all

[fugazi33]

My car went in for the MOT a couple of months back, I got a phone call to say it failed on corrosion on the rear suspension strut in the boot. He said it needed welding, I worryingly asked how much it would cost to weld and I was suprised when he said £40. Not too bad at all

That's the thing, some garages are very reasonable as far as welding rates go, others seem to think £200 for a 3" patch over the top of rusty metal is acceptable, ring round and get some quotes, some of the mobile welders offer good rates.

[munky30]

My only concern about that is the place its gone (yes I know, I need a camera). It doesnt look like it will be very easy to just weld a patch in. But I'll wait and see what they say at the mot centre and take it from there. If its going to cost a bomb I may look into getting a mig. If not I'll go for the cheap option.

Cheers for the advice though chaps.

[jone23]

My car went for an MOT and needed welding in the floor, a big patch on the outer sill, patch on the end of the sill inside the rear wheelarch and a part of the same wheelarch reconstructing, along with the brake lines above the tank/ subframe, and the chap did it all for 105 quid!! I was well happy, although, he did say he'd never do the rear brake lines on an e30 again.

Jon

[J_Mac]

If it gets this bad, scrap it

[munky30]

that looks pretty solid.. Bit of t-cut and that should polish up nicely.

[oakey]

If it gets this bad, scrap it

a coat of hammerite and it'll be fine!

simian- have you got any quotes for the welding yet?

[munky30]

nope, still got a few bits and bobs left over from the engine swap to sort out, need to bodge on an exhaust somehow, and make it run for a drift day this weekend. Then I'll worry about the mot (20th march) and the rust.

[Speedtouch]

If you can't weld it, you could always try rivetting an aluminium or steel plate on, or failing that, good old fibreglass followed up by careful disguising with underseal and mud (obviously though, you shouldn't really do this within the MOT guide of 30cm from suspension mountings.) You could even fill the hole with self-expanding foam, then disguise it as above (after all, it is project cheapskate, right?!) The end of a sill should be safe enough to bodge...

[PiperZero]

Simian, is this the correct area where you are having rust issues?



The jacking point seems to rust thru almost underneath the gas pedal floor-mount, so it felt very dodgy. Water splashed up from driving thru puddles...

As for welding, I'd love to start learning how to do it...

[munky30]

yup thats the one. I havent pulled up the carpets yet but from underneath thats where its gone.

[nr]

A bodgers guide to patching up a hole:

1) Get some steel. Either buy some mild steel from your local steel stockists for a fortune, or get hold of an old washing machine/tumble dryer and rip it to pieces. I'm tight, so I put a wanted ad on my local freecycle group and was offered 8 old machines within the space of an hour.

2) Find a BMW. It doesn't matter which one, they're all rusty as ****.

3) Find the hole. If it's a touring, this is easy. It'll be in the cubby hole in the boot, otherwise known as the 'ornamental water feature' given the amount of water that collects in there. Outside view:

and from the inside:

Doesn't look too bad, does it?

4) Cut all the rust out, and get back to solid metal. This is the fun bit, as you get to play with an angle grinder:


Hmmmm... All of a sudden the small hole looks a lot bigger...

5) Cut a repair patch to the right size from the old washing machine. Clean a centimetre or so all the way around the edge of the hole, and the patch with the trusty angle grinder. Mug it a few times with a rubber mallet, until it's roughly the right shape.

6) Put a couple of tack welds in the corners and halfway along each edge to hold it in place.

7) Curse at the fact that the wind has picked up, and you're using a gas MIG setup. For outside, in the wind, far better to use gasless as the shielding gas doesn't blow away, and your welds don't look like pigeon crap.

8) Weld the rest of the way around the patch, continually swearing at the wind:



9) (I haven't got this far yet...) Grind down the welds, give the whole lot a good coat of primer, then cover it in some kind of chassis underseal muck, or hammerite as a last resort. Also it will be a good idea to stick a load of rust remover stuff on the inside of the repair, to slow down the return of the rust.

Like I said, this really is a bodgers guide, and I really don't expect that repair to last more than about 2 years - but by then the rest of the car will have fallen apart anyway, so I'm not fussed. If you want to do it properly, ignore everything above - it really is a dreadful shortcut. And if you're going to weld outside, try not to do it on the windiest day of the year so far. Or at least use a gasless setup if you have to.

[fuzzy]

i like how you blame the wind for your welding

[nr]

i like how you blame the wind for your welding

Heh! A bad workman always blames something else

Seriously though, I cut the rust out, which was really the point of no return 'cos I need the car tomorrow. Within about 15 minutes the wind had picked up to the point where I really didn't want to carry on. I ended up with the gas running flat out to try and get *some* kind of shielding, which kind of worked, but not really that well. The weld has penetrated OK, just looks like crap.

Ah, I forgot step 0.5 - remember to remove the battery before striking an arc anywhere near the car. If you don't, it'll probably commit electrical suicide.

[handpaper]

continually swearing at the wind

Which is why I welded from the inside. Sure, the outside looks messy, but a bit of careful hammering and 2 coats of hammerite will sort that. Also, you're never welding upside-down.

Ah, I forgot step 0.5 - remember to remove the battery before striking an arc anywhere near the car. If you don't, it'll probably commit electrical suicide.

It's usually advised to *disconnect* the battery - I wouldn't say even that's necessary if you clamp the big croc clip near (within 2 feet) to your welding site and NOT anywhere on the engine (all that bare metal's tempting, isn't it?)

[ed325i]

I welded mine form the inside.

[dave525]

no no no,im an mot tester and we can spot stuff like this from a mile away!it just makes it much harder to fix properly after.get a mig welder and practice first on bits of metal.migging takes practice and time but its not too hard when youve got the hang of it.just be very carefull of fire.it doesnt take much for it to get away from you.have a good extinguisher and someone to firewatch for you.remove as much trim,sealer etc before you start from around the area to be mended.if you like old cars welding is a fantastic skill to have.cut back to solid clean steel first and seam weld the repair.just paint it for the test and finish it after,good luck

[dave525]

my above reply was for the one about glassfibre etc and bodging with filler.the welding job in the pictures looks fine and is what you should aim for.

[nr]

Two very good points there from dave525:

1) Have an extinguisher next to you while you're welding.
2) If the welding is for an MOT, just give it a coat of primer before taking it along to be tested. If you cover it in underseal, chances are that the inspector will just scrape it all off again to see how good your welding is. Once it's passed the test, then seal it properly.

Nice to know that my welding looks fine from an MOT inspector - that's made my day

Ta,