M20 Cylinder Heads. Is There A Difference?

Need technical Q/A then you're in the right place

Moderator: martauto

DelaneyG
E30 Zone Newbie
E30 Zone Newbie
Posts: 111
Joined: Thu Apr 13, 2006 11:00 pm
Location: Croydon
Contact:

Thu Jul 27, 2006 8:57 pm

Argos wrote:Well it's like this Del Old Boy. Firstly you never mentioned anything about skimming heads or blocks so please don't come here shouting the odds about your pointless project. Secondly a B20 does not have domed pistons - they have flat tops - any fool knows that..........well, except one fool.....;-)
Thirdly unless you own some old chrome bumper relic your compression is 8.8:1. The 9.4:1 you quoted (from your owner's manual?) is misleading - that is for ECE cars without a cat but not UK cars - they (like plastic bumper 325i's) are still 8.8:1 without a catalyst. It's called a 'cat prepped' engine in case you didn't know. Both of my F plate 320i's were 8.8:1 engines.
As for them being 'the same engine' well no they are not. A 2.5 has bores which are 4mm bigger than the 2 litre and 323i. The distance across the valves on a 325i head is 78mm so please tell me how these will clear the smaller valve cutouts on a B20 piston where the valve cutouts are 74mm across - when you've mullered 60 thou off a 325i head?
Please come back when you have an inkling of what you're on about - it will doubtless be a most engrossing epistle. Oh, and stop pissing about with a 2 litre and buy a proper engine (that'll be a 2.5!). If you or anyone you know owns a boat, your B20 would make a rather splendid anchor. winkeye

first off i didnt come here shouting about my project i answerd what was being asked, their are many other other things which i am doin to my second project engine, i have photos of my 2.0l block which has got domed pistons if you want il post em, a little turbulance is required on the inlet side but you still remove rough areas and sharp edges to suit the required amount of flow BUT that depends on what the engine is being tuned for some do some dont, an the quoted compression ratio is from the bmw technical information disk (TIS) so maybe bmw got it wrong? im begining to doubt youv had one of these engines apart or if you have had a 1988 320i engine apart (thats what i have by the way) your one was shit cos mine has got domed pistons which may count for the higher compressoin, lucky me aye :) .

What makes you think thier differnt engines does the same engine code not give it away oh yea their an incredidble 500CC BIGGER OH MY GOD! Thats not gona make much difference when you tune an engine by the way, valve cut outs? mine has no valve cut outs? Mullerd? Skimmed to raise compression. Inklin what im on about? I,ve been a mechanic for 8 years i still have a job an my private customers come back so maybe their very polite understanding people, and i dont want to tune a 2.5 if i wanted to tune a 2.5 i would everyone does 2.5's its about time someone done anouther 2.0 i like being different.

My girlfriends dad has a boat il ask him but i thing he,s got one

But if you dont think itl work or if its not worth while i couldnt care less, my mates dad who worked at a bm dealership most of life has this mix match stupid idea as you say it an it was rapid so i think il go with him

Ps the intake outside dwell of a 2.0l cam is 38.6mm
the exhaust outside dwell is 32.6mm

a 2.5 intake outside dwell is 43.15 g6 - 43.00 h7
an the exhaust outside dwell is 37.65 g6 - 37.50 h7

note i duno what the g6 an h7 is all about

Your turn :stupid:
DelaneyG
E30 Zone Newbie
E30 Zone Newbie
Posts: 111
Joined: Thu Apr 13, 2006 11:00 pm
Location: Croydon
Contact:

Thu Jul 27, 2006 8:59 pm

Argos wrote:
DelaneyG wrote:sorry mate i only work on cars i dont know a thing
You're not wrong there. :D In case you didn't know, the smaller the port, the faster the gas speed = the faster it arrives at the valve, the more gets crammed in on one stroke. This is how four valve per cylinder technology came about.............

BTW I love your comment;

"For a valve to hit piston youd would need an extreamely high lift cam."

Is that right? And exactly why are there inlet and exhaust valve cutouts in the piston crown? Decoration? :D
Out of interest, are you using a 2 litre head gasket - or a 2.5, having factored in the extra air to compress if you do?
Oh yeah nice by the way, very creative thats one up from pritt stick LOL
Andy335Touring
Married to the E30 Zone
Married to the E30 Zone
Posts: 7144
Joined: Sun Jan 09, 2005 11:00 pm
Location: Long Eaton,Nottingham
Contact:

Thu Jul 27, 2006 9:53 pm

:skip:
daimlerman
**BANNED**
Posts: 15968
Joined: Mon Feb 27, 2006 11:00 pm
Location: Grumpy Old Man

Thu Jul 27, 2006 10:01 pm

According to my GSF parts catalogue,320 and 325 cams have the same part number....325 head and throttle body on my 2.0 block used less fuel than standard setup.I have a scrap 2.0 block that is far to cumbersome to make an anchor for my boat if anyone wants one...best answer is a 525e with 325 head,how do you stop the buggers cracking?
Jhonno
Homo Hair
Posts: 20362
Joined: Mon Jan 10, 2005 11:00 pm
Location: FLAT, FLAT, FLAT!!
Contact:

Fri Jul 28, 2006 1:13 am

daimlerman wrote:how do you stop the buggers cracking?
treat em properly.. 320i heads crack also
Got cable ties? Get diffin..

Arch roller for hire.

www.zeroexhausts.co.uk

Image
DelaneyG
E30 Zone Newbie
E30 Zone Newbie
Posts: 111
Joined: Thu Apr 13, 2006 11:00 pm
Location: Croydon
Contact:

Fri Jul 28, 2006 2:47 am

Image
Image
Image

My bad their is a cut out for the inlet valve, but im fairly sure thats a domed piston what do you u think? No i work for MB motors new addington my manager races a tt hot rod at the essex arena wel its much much much beta than a tt but thats aside the point.

Sorry i didnt answer did i, il probly use a 2.0l head gasket i think, thats off the top of my head (no pun intended) what do mean by the extra air part wether or not the 2.0l gasket will take it? it will if thats what your asking.

An if i know nothing why are you wasting your time arguing with me? I wouldnt say you know Nothing i would say that you like to waffle though

one other thing why did you call yourself argos? Do you work their or just shop their alot

and before you say "ah you know nothing you took the carbon ring off the top of the pistons" (if you know anything bout engines first hand) they were so coked up it wudnt of been practicle leaveing it on their

B25 B20 the only difference is the bore size you find sumin different on the block, their isnt it is the same, but the 2.5 is ever so slightly lighter so theirs sumin else for you to use in your reply!!

and if your so sure it will be crap il meet wen i've finished it, its not a 5 min job doh it'l be late 06 early 07

ETK duno bout that one iv got TIS and EPC (electronic parts catalouge) their what they use in the dealership workshops so i hope its corect for £80-£150 an hour
Jhonno
Homo Hair
Posts: 20362
Joined: Mon Jan 10, 2005 11:00 pm
Location: FLAT, FLAT, FLAT!!
Contact:

Fri Jul 28, 2006 11:07 am

b25 has a longer stroke also
Got cable ties? Get diffin..

Arch roller for hire.

www.zeroexhausts.co.uk

Image
Andy335Touring
Married to the E30 Zone
Married to the E30 Zone
Posts: 7144
Joined: Sun Jan 09, 2005 11:00 pm
Location: Long Eaton,Nottingham
Contact:

Fri Jul 28, 2006 6:04 pm

I thought this looked like an entertaining thread so i subscribed :)
Templ8e30
E30 Zone Addict
E30 Zone Addict
Posts: 2801
Joined: Mon Jan 10, 2005 11:00 pm
Location: Ashton-under-Lyne, Lancashire

Sat Jul 29, 2006 5:30 pm

Regarding the 320i/325i cam issue, they have the same lift but the 325i cam has a longer duration (8 degrees iirc)

If I were trying to tune up a 2 litre M20 I'd be fitting bigger valves to the 731 casting head with the throats and ports opened out to suit and a 325i inlet/TB and a lumpy cam. But I wouldn't because having pissed around with one in the past there are better gains to be had for less money and effort from tuning a 2.5 or going 2.7.

For the time/money you'll have spent on this project you'd have probably paid for an E36 M3 conversion !

Cheers,

Iain T

PS, why would it take until end of 2006/2007 to build this engine ? I built my 2.7 from scratch in my shed in 6 weeks and as most people on here will tell you she flies :D
Image
2007 Mazda 6 2.0 estate
Political Correctness - A concept based on the idea that its possible to pick up a turd by the clean end !
DelaneyG
E30 Zone Newbie
E30 Zone Newbie
Posts: 111
Joined: Thu Apr 13, 2006 11:00 pm
Location: Croydon
Contact:

Tue Aug 01, 2006 6:20 pm

Hello all evry1 have a good weekend?

cant say im familiar with the E21 engine so it may be the same my mate has the same age car with the same engine code and they are both rapid as both of us have done the E36 320i nothing wrong with these pistons bro

their you go agen of course they extend to each side of the chamber thats how engines are made.

As i know nothing i would like you to explain to me and everyone else why it would have zero compression? it will have compression but explain anyway

What?? how is 60 thousands of an inch 1.6mm? can YOU get 1.6mm into an inch 60,000 times?? "you obviously know nothing" PLEASE ANSWER THAT ONE

and the method i would use to make the gasket seal is called Torqueing the head down, think about what you said that one was silly wasnt it

im stripping it down copletely and replacing alot of it so f i needed to i would

how many engines can you name have the valves open when the pistons are at top dead center?? go on dont be shy

You cannot guarentee evrthing argos (thats also a joke)

im not resseting the cam timing you dont need to

but your right you cant fault it you have tried doh, you can get more than 150 mate its a 2l 6pot for one an its restricted as standard for some silly tax break thing in europe
Templ8e30
E30 Zone Addict
E30 Zone Addict
Posts: 2801
Joined: Mon Jan 10, 2005 11:00 pm
Location: Ashton-under-Lyne, Lancashire

Tue Aug 01, 2006 7:40 pm

DelaneyG wrote:how many engines can you name have the valves open when the pistons are at top dead center?? go on dont be shy
Most engines do, my 2.7 definately has valves open at TDC.

Think about the 4 stroke cycle, on the exhaust stroke the exhaust valve starts closing towards the top of the stroke but remains slightly open while the inlet valve opens.
At TDC they are both slightly open (overlap) to aid cylinder filling. The rapid flow of the exhaust gas helps to 'suck' fresh mixture into the cylinder, known commonly as scavenging.
The exhaust valve closes shortly after TDC.

Cheers,

Iain T
Last edited by Templ8e30 on Tue Aug 01, 2006 7:54 pm, edited 1 time in total.
Image
2007 Mazda 6 2.0 estate
Political Correctness - A concept based on the idea that its possible to pick up a turd by the clean end !
Jhonno
Homo Hair
Posts: 20362
Joined: Mon Jan 10, 2005 11:00 pm
Location: FLAT, FLAT, FLAT!!
Contact:

Tue Aug 01, 2006 7:51 pm

Erm most/all engines do.. its called overlap

320i headgasket will encroch on the chamber as its designed for a smaller bore and that wont be good for the ignition of the mixture
their you go agen of course they extend to each side of the chamber thats how engines are made
wtf i think you missed the point he was making entirely
What?? how is 60 thousands of an inch 1.6mm? can YOU get 1.6mm into an inch 60,000 times?? "you obviously know nothing" PLEASE ANSWER THAT ONE
you talking about skimming a head reducing piston to valve gap on a head which requires valve cutouts on a 325i but doesnt have them big enough on 320i pistons as the 320i has smaller inlet valves
and the method i would use to make the gasket seal is called Torqueing the head down, think about what you said that one was silly wasnt it
again not seein the bigger picture i feel

6 pot has nothing to do with it.. its a 2.0 8v engine end of the day, that is the restricting factor bhp/litre max you'll get is bout 170 with a lumpy cam and individual tbs or carbs
Got cable ties? Get diffin..

Arch roller for hire.

www.zeroexhausts.co.uk

Image
Andy335Touring
Married to the E30 Zone
Married to the E30 Zone
Posts: 7144
Joined: Sun Jan 09, 2005 11:00 pm
Location: Long Eaton,Nottingham
Contact:

Tue Aug 01, 2006 9:54 pm

The M20 chamber looks a bit like my M30 chambers that i'm reshaping a little for those Alpina pistons.

Image

Image
User avatar
reggid
E30 Zone Squatter
E30 Zone Squatter
Posts: 1979
Joined: Mon Jul 11, 2005 11:00 pm
Location: Oz

Wed Aug 02, 2006 3:45 am

anyone know the differences between a c2/b3 head and an 885 325i head?
User avatar
reggid
E30 Zone Squatter
E30 Zone Squatter
Posts: 1979
Joined: Mon Jul 11, 2005 11:00 pm
Location: Oz

Thu Aug 03, 2006 1:05 pm

Argos wrote:I don't, but Sal (M5 Pilot) will! Having said that I know of a scrap C2 head (cracked) so could take sopme pics of it.
pics would be good :)

Cheers
Post Reply