Pulling my M60 lump out of my e34 today in readiness for the e30 and got a little puzzled when I found a secondry throttle butterfly and a very very thin wire that operates it.
Normally I'd assume it's just the old school cruise control but then I remembered the car hasnt got cruise?
Any one shed any light? The cable attached the the butterfly goes down behind the near side head light to a small black cylindrical unit Im guessing it some sort of solenoid.
Cheers
M60 secondry throttle butterfly?
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ian332isport
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It's all part of the traction control system. It's used to limit engine power when the wheels start to spin etc.DeeDee wrote:Pulling my M60 lump out of my e34 today in readiness for the e30 and got a little puzzled when I found a secondry throttle butterfly and a very very thin wire that operates it.
Normally I'd assume it's just the old school cruise control but then I remembered the car hasnt got cruise?
Any one shed any light? The cable attached the the butterfly goes down behind the near side head light to a small black cylindrical unit Im guessing it some sort of solenoid.
Cheers
Ian.
If it aint broke - Modify it...
Makes sense, weird way of doing it though!
Ok so I will be wanting to ditch this, curious now as I wouldnt want to ditch the solenoid and what not only to find the ecu is leaning the mixture everytime the wheels spin up.
How does it sense wheel spin? rear abs?
Ok so I will be wanting to ditch this, curious now as I wouldnt want to ditch the solenoid and what not only to find the ecu is leaning the mixture everytime the wheels spin up.
How does it sense wheel spin? rear abs?
as Ian said, traction control. Your 540 has traction control, which is built within the ABS ECU. As I don't think you're going to use the 540 ABS setup (or you are slightly masochist), you don't have to worry about it.
It connects to the ECU through one of the three little plugs you found in the ECU's box (the X10104 to be precise). simply leave this disconnected and you have no worries to have, as the ECU doesn't get any info about wheelspin anymore. You rightly don't need to carry the actuator into the E30 either.
I personnally removed the butterfly to gain 25 bhp (hum...).
If you have time to spend, the best way is probably to redo the whole inlet from the manifold on, as you'll find out that the inlet is a tad long to fit in the E30 bay if you keep the original airbox. It fits, but it's not ideal.
HTH
Seb
It connects to the ECU through one of the three little plugs you found in the ECU's box (the X10104 to be precise). simply leave this disconnected and you have no worries to have, as the ECU doesn't get any info about wheelspin anymore. You rightly don't need to carry the actuator into the E30 either.
I personnally removed the butterfly to gain 25 bhp (hum...).
If you have time to spend, the best way is probably to redo the whole inlet from the manifold on, as you'll find out that the inlet is a tad long to fit in the E30 bay if you keep the original airbox. It fits, but it's not ideal.
HTH
Seb
Reason I asked: Always keen to know if I can get any more power! Getting far too used to 280ish bhp. So Seb, if I put on K&N, zaust and a fluffy dice I will b pushin' 360 brake?
More seriously, any proper ways of extracting more power?
Interestingly, I have just found out something which you lot probably already know, but it is probably worth removing before fitting the whole 'shi-bang.'
The e39 vintage gearbox/clutch mechanism has a clutch delay valve, which means that when you change gear you look akin to a invalid! Certainly worth checking to see if the m60 boxes had them. I think I will remove mine before the Pod!
m60 don't.
IIRC the mechanism is in the line to the slave, looks like a brake pressure limiter.
A sure way on these to extract more power "easily" is to get rid of the cats -> mine is quite silent with only them and a backbox on, so they do slow the flow. But there again, I don't think you kept them.
Making/Buying a leightweight flywheel helps as well, as the factory dual mass one is a real anchor. I think that around 10kg can be saved.
Remap would certainly do something as the standard maps were not written with performance in mind (and with a very light flywheel, you might encounter issues with the normal map as well)
Finally, for big power, the cams are only 240° duration, so much more power is available if you fancy a serious engine build.
HTH
Séb
IIRC the mechanism is in the line to the slave, looks like a brake pressure limiter.
A sure way on these to extract more power "easily" is to get rid of the cats -> mine is quite silent with only them and a backbox on, so they do slow the flow. But there again, I don't think you kept them.
Making/Buying a leightweight flywheel helps as well, as the factory dual mass one is a real anchor. I think that around 10kg can be saved.
Remap would certainly do something as the standard maps were not written with performance in mind (and with a very light flywheel, you might encounter issues with the normal map as well)
Finally, for big power, the cams are only 240° duration, so much more power is available if you fancy a serious engine build.
HTH
Séb
Thanks Seb. Alas I can't remove the cats or it won't pass the emissions test (98 model). I am too lazy to remove the gearbox unless the clutch goes at some point in the future... I knew about the massively tame cams but again, that is fairly serious money once you cost up 2 (or possibly 4-not sure if you can get away with just changing the inlet cams) cams, remap and potential emission issues come MOT time. Looks like 280 will have to do, heck at least the manual box isn't sapping 'autobox' amount of power!
For reference, anyone who comes across this post in the future:
CDV ( Clutch delay valve) :
http://www.zeckhausen.com/CDV.htm
For reference, anyone who comes across this post in the future:
CDV ( Clutch delay valve) :
http://www.zeckhausen.com/CDV.htm
Just realised I had all these reply's, thank you very much. Coincedently the only reason I found this thread is because I've pulled my m60 out of the e34 and removed the box today to find the bloody dual mass. Bit gutted as I hate them. Any easy way I can get rid of it?
Seb (assuming thats your name?) You seem to know your stuff with this engine, so hope you dont mind if I pick your brains a little. Firstly, I am after an uprated clutch, havent had much luck, any ideas?
Secondly I will be running with no cats and a lightened flywheel (providing I can find a decent place to lighten it for me or a decent aftermarket one) I gather from what I have found that the standard map struggles with these modifications? Any off the shelf eprom or 'chip' I can use to save the massive cost of a rolling road session and re-map?
Cheers
Seb (assuming thats your name?) You seem to know your stuff with this engine, so hope you dont mind if I pick your brains a little. Firstly, I am after an uprated clutch, havent had much luck, any ideas?
Secondly I will be running with no cats and a lightened flywheel (providing I can find a decent place to lighten it for me or a decent aftermarket one) I gather from what I have found that the standard map struggles with these modifications? Any off the shelf eprom or 'chip' I can use to save the massive cost of a rolling road session and re-map?
Cheers
Hi
Sorry, short on time to fish out information berried in a broken computer tonight. However, there is one american company (the one for which I have to dig out links) that does uprated clutches on a single mass flywheel, and it is quite good value for money - which doesn't mean cheap. IIRC using BMW 850 clutch plates.
From what I saw on mine, you can't really efficiently machine the standard dual mass one. If you've got your own machines and time to play with, then why not. But if you need to outsource the work, you're better off to buy a single mass one.
It might be worth mentionning that a lot of people running a single mass flywheel report massive backlash noises from the gearbox in neutral - not that it is bad, but it may be annoying if you have to stand it daily.
No worries afaik with decat, but as stated before I read from a few people in germany tinkering with these engines in E30's that when the driveline weight is massively reduced, the electronics struggle to keep up a smooth operation.
There are a few chips for these engines in the US, with added difficulty if you've got EWS ('95 and later on e34) but still possible. How good they are, I don't know. A few members on here also have rolling road facilities and have a very good name, but I don't know what the prices might be.
When I salvage the broken drive from the broken computer, I'll post a link to this american company if you haven't found them in the mean time.
HTH
Séb
Sorry, short on time to fish out information berried in a broken computer tonight. However, there is one american company (the one for which I have to dig out links) that does uprated clutches on a single mass flywheel, and it is quite good value for money - which doesn't mean cheap. IIRC using BMW 850 clutch plates.
From what I saw on mine, you can't really efficiently machine the standard dual mass one. If you've got your own machines and time to play with, then why not. But if you need to outsource the work, you're better off to buy a single mass one.
It might be worth mentionning that a lot of people running a single mass flywheel report massive backlash noises from the gearbox in neutral - not that it is bad, but it may be annoying if you have to stand it daily.
No worries afaik with decat, but as stated before I read from a few people in germany tinkering with these engines in E30's that when the driveline weight is massively reduced, the electronics struggle to keep up a smooth operation.
There are a few chips for these engines in the US, with added difficulty if you've got EWS ('95 and later on e34) but still possible. How good they are, I don't know. A few members on here also have rolling road facilities and have a very good name, but I don't know what the prices might be.
When I salvage the broken drive from the broken computer, I'll post a link to this american company if you haven't found them in the mean time.
HTH
Séb
Thanks for the update. I shall have a look about, Dinan is the first company that is springing to mind. However, I am trying to build my car on a big of a budget so may skip it if it's going to cost lots and lots.
Any ideas about the standard clutches on the M60 boxes? My cars only going to be used for track days etc so will be having a hard time, so I'd ideally like to uprate it now rather than down the line.
Cheers guys
Any ideas about the standard clutches on the M60 boxes? My cars only going to be used for track days etc so will be having a hard time, so I'd ideally like to uprate it now rather than down the line.
Cheers guys