As title ive cracked my sump.. how hard is it to remove etc..?
i was going to get it welded has to be aluminimum i heard any recomendations folks...
Looks straight forward enough but i heard can be an A*se ache!!
Cracked Sump!
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handpaper
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Replacement is precisely zero fun 
You will need :
Jack and axle stands
Engine hoist
8mm, 10mm, 13mm, 17mm six sided sockets
E10 Torx socket
Gasket scraper
Raise the car on axle stands.
Remove the plastic undertray at the front of the engine bay (10mm & 8mm sockets) and the aluminum oil catcher/air duct that hangs from the front subframe and chassis rails.
Remove the earth strap (13mm) and oil level sender (10mm) from the left 'wing' of the sump.
Loosen all four engine mount nuts (17mm)and wind the upper pair near to the top of their threads.
Free the radiator by removing the plastic holder on its top (10mm)
Free the airbox by loosening its two mounting nuts (10mm)
Remove the bellhousing extension at the rear of the engine (13mm & E10 Torx). A universal joint is useful for the rightmost Torx bolt, if you don't have one it can be done with a long extension bar. Don't lose the thin stainless steel washers from the Torx bolts, refitting without them can make it near-impossible to dismantle again.
Crack off as many sump mounting bolts as you can get to. The only really hard ones are on the left behind the front subframe; a spanner can just about get at these. If you can loosen all the bolts, remove them; if not wait until you have raised the engine.
Raise the engine as far as possible with the hoist. The radiator and airbox should rise with it to avoid excessive strain on hoses.
Remove the sump mounting bolts if you haven't already done so, if the sump doesn't drop off gently tapping with a soft-faced mallet should loosen it.
If the engine has been raised high enough, it should now be possible to remove the sump. This will require a little careful manoevering to get it around the oil pump.
Clean the engine mating surfaces with a sharp gasket scraper. The front and rear engine covers are aluminum - be careful not to scratch or score them.
Turn the engine over by hand until #6 (the rear) piston is at TDC.
Stick a new gasket to the replacement sump with gasket compound or grease.
Place the new sump into position, being careful not to dislodge or damage the gasket.
Refit four corner bolts 'finger tight' first to hold the sump in position before refitting the other twenty
Tighten gently from the centre outward (to the front and rear). Not too tight, 'just nipped up' is enough.
Lower the engine back into place, ensuring the bottoms of the engine mounts go back properly if they were disturbed. They have a small, round locating bump that fits into a hole in the subframe. Retighten the engine mount nuts.
Secure the airbox and radiator.
Replace the bellhousing extension (don't forget the washers!)
Replace the oil level sender and earth lead.
Ensure the sump plug is in place and refill the engine with oil. You could take this opportunity to change the filter as well.
Replace the undertrays and lower the car back onto the ground.
Go and have a bath. And another bath. Spend at least ten minutes with Swarfega and a nailbrush trying to make your hands presentable again. Resign yourself to 'not coming near [your SO] with hands like that!'
Tell yourself you just saved at least £100 in garage labour. Set that off against the nookie ban.
Reassure yourself that it was a valuable learning experience.
Realise that what you learnt was that you don't want to do that again, ever
You will need :
Jack and axle stands
Engine hoist
8mm, 10mm, 13mm, 17mm six sided sockets
E10 Torx socket
Gasket scraper
Raise the car on axle stands.
Remove the plastic undertray at the front of the engine bay (10mm & 8mm sockets) and the aluminum oil catcher/air duct that hangs from the front subframe and chassis rails.
Remove the earth strap (13mm) and oil level sender (10mm) from the left 'wing' of the sump.
Loosen all four engine mount nuts (17mm)and wind the upper pair near to the top of their threads.
Free the radiator by removing the plastic holder on its top (10mm)
Free the airbox by loosening its two mounting nuts (10mm)
Remove the bellhousing extension at the rear of the engine (13mm & E10 Torx). A universal joint is useful for the rightmost Torx bolt, if you don't have one it can be done with a long extension bar. Don't lose the thin stainless steel washers from the Torx bolts, refitting without them can make it near-impossible to dismantle again.
Crack off as many sump mounting bolts as you can get to. The only really hard ones are on the left behind the front subframe; a spanner can just about get at these. If you can loosen all the bolts, remove them; if not wait until you have raised the engine.
Raise the engine as far as possible with the hoist. The radiator and airbox should rise with it to avoid excessive strain on hoses.
Remove the sump mounting bolts if you haven't already done so, if the sump doesn't drop off gently tapping with a soft-faced mallet should loosen it.
If the engine has been raised high enough, it should now be possible to remove the sump. This will require a little careful manoevering to get it around the oil pump.
Clean the engine mating surfaces with a sharp gasket scraper. The front and rear engine covers are aluminum - be careful not to scratch or score them.
Turn the engine over by hand until #6 (the rear) piston is at TDC.
Stick a new gasket to the replacement sump with gasket compound or grease.
Place the new sump into position, being careful not to dislodge or damage the gasket.
Refit four corner bolts 'finger tight' first to hold the sump in position before refitting the other twenty
Tighten gently from the centre outward (to the front and rear). Not too tight, 'just nipped up' is enough.
Lower the engine back into place, ensuring the bottoms of the engine mounts go back properly if they were disturbed. They have a small, round locating bump that fits into a hole in the subframe. Retighten the engine mount nuts.
Secure the airbox and radiator.
Replace the bellhousing extension (don't forget the washers!)
Replace the oil level sender and earth lead.
Ensure the sump plug is in place and refill the engine with oil. You could take this opportunity to change the filter as well.
Replace the undertrays and lower the car back onto the ground.
Go and have a bath. And another bath. Spend at least ten minutes with Swarfega and a nailbrush trying to make your hands presentable again. Resign yourself to 'not coming near [your SO] with hands like that!'
Tell yourself you just saved at least £100 in garage labour. Set that off against the nookie ban.
Reassure yourself that it was a valuable learning experience.
Realise that what you learnt was that you don't want to do that again, ever
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Brianmoooore
- E30 Zone Team Member
- Posts: 49353
- Joined: Mon Jan 10, 2005 11:00 pm
Can be done without the engine hoist if you:
Remove all four nuts from the engine mount rubbers.
Place a wide block of wood under the sump.
Jack the engine right up.
Remove the mounts, and replace them with the largest blocks of wood you can get in.
Remove all four nuts from the engine mount rubbers.
Place a wide block of wood under the sump.
Jack the engine right up.
Remove the mounts, and replace them with the largest blocks of wood you can get in.
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march109
- Engaged to the E30 Zone
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- Contact:
This is the easiest way IMO.Brianmoooore wrote:Can be done without the engine hoist if you:
Remove all four nuts from the engine mount rubbers.
Place a wide block of wood under the sump.
Jack the engine right up.
Remove the mounts, and replace them with the largest blocks of wood you can get in.
325i Tech 1 Touring, breaking.
2.5 high comp. M20, 3.64 LSD, Fully undersealed, Spax springs & Bilstein shocks, s/s exhaust, Alpina rep wheels and more.
2.5 high comp. M20, 3.64 LSD, Fully undersealed, Spax springs & Bilstein shocks, s/s exhaust, Alpina rep wheels and more.
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Brianmoooore
- E30 Zone Team Member
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- Joined: Mon Jan 10, 2005 11:00 pm
There's also an alternative way of jacking up the car body, and unscrewing the four bolts for the front subframe, then lowering the frame.
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murran
- E30 Zone Squatter
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- Joined: Sat Jul 28, 2007 11:00 pm
- Location: sheffield, good old sheffield!
got a steam cleaned sump here too! £20 posted??
or collect from sheffield? £12?
or collect from sheffield? £12?
e21 killing tyres with e30 325 powerzzz
drifting on the cheap......... www.trampdrift.com
e21zone........ www.bmwe21.net
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pacerpete
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The moral of the story is a lowered car, as well as riding badly and looking council costs lots of money when you wipe the sump off and ruins your sex life as women /men /boys don't like being pawed by someone covered in 20 years of crud and smeg ! (with the exception of Maxfield !). Don't do it ! 
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murran
- E30 Zone Squatter
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- Joined: Sat Jul 28, 2007 11:00 pm
- Location: sheffield, good old sheffield!
mines not lowered, so I dont need a spare sump!pacerpete wrote:The moral of the story is a lowered car, as well as riding badly and looking council costs lots of money when you wipe the sump off and ruins your sex life as women /men /boys don't like being pawed by someone covered in 20 years of crud and smeg ! (with the exception of Maxfield !). Don't do it !
hands up everyone else that doesnt need to slow down for speed humps!?
e21 killing tyres with e30 325 powerzzz
drifting on the cheap......... www.trampdrift.com
e21zone........ www.bmwe21.net
I was searching rear subframe mount and came across this cracked sump post.
Just for future reference, it is very easy to drain the oil clean up the crack and seal it with aluminium epoxy.
It works great until you scrape the stuff off again in which case you probably would have cracked your sump again if you'd had it welded or replaced.
Just for future reference, it is very easy to drain the oil clean up the crack and seal it with aluminium epoxy.
It works great until you scrape the stuff off again in which case you probably would have cracked your sump again if you'd had it welded or replaced.
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town325i
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thats as bodged as you can get next you will be say your wheels are held on with only one boltdonR wrote:I was searching rear subframe mount and came across this cracked sump post.
Just for future reference, it is very easy to drain the oil clean up the crack and seal it with aluminium epoxy.
It works great until you scrape the stuff off again in which case you probably would have cracked your sump again if you'd had it welded or replaced.
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Brianmoooore
- E30 Zone Team Member
- Posts: 49353
- Joined: Mon Jan 10, 2005 11:00 pm
Few more names for my list of members "never to buy a car from!"
I have had my car for about 12 years and have had to perform this fix on three occassions due to the sump scraping. Otherwise it is a very reliable fix and as I said as good as new until you scrape the sump again. As long as you drain the oil and make sure the site is clean and the surface rough then the aluminium epoxy will provide a strong bond and a perfect seal.
I don't see the point of going to the trouble of lifting the motor, etc, taking the sump off, replacing or rewelding, just when you are probably going to scrape it again, certainly if you're car is lowered like mine and the roads are rough with deep gutters.
Of course if you get a bash plate fitted then problem solved, but then if you have an old E30 without an oil cooler, then you wont really want to be covering it up with another metal plate as the oil will not cool as well.
Aluminium epoxies are designed to provide permanent repairs to most Aluminium surfaces can be purchased from most auto shops.
I don't see the point of going to the trouble of lifting the motor, etc, taking the sump off, replacing or rewelding, just when you are probably going to scrape it again, certainly if you're car is lowered like mine and the roads are rough with deep gutters.
Of course if you get a bash plate fitted then problem solved, but then if you have an old E30 without an oil cooler, then you wont really want to be covering it up with another metal plate as the oil will not cool as well.
Aluminium epoxies are designed to provide permanent repairs to most Aluminium surfaces can be purchased from most auto shops.
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town325i
- E30 Zone Team Member
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donR wrote:I have had my car for about 12 years and have had to perform this fix on three occassions due to the sump scraping. Otherwise it is a very reliable fix and as I said as good as new until you scrape the sump again. As long as you drain the oil and make sure the site is clean and the surface rough then the aluminium epoxy will provide a strong bond and a perfect seal.
I don't see the point of going to the trouble of lifting the motor, etc, taking the sump off, replacing or rewelding, just when you are probably going to scrape it again, certainly if you're car is lowered like mine and the roads are rough with deep gutters.
Of course if you get a bash plate fitted then problem solved, but then if you have an old E30 without an oil cooler, then you wont really want to be covering it up with another metal plate as the oil will not cool as well.
thats ok di=oing that but what happens if it fails on the motorway you dump all your oil on the motor way and you kill you engine
Aluminium epoxies are designed to provide permanent repairs to most Aluminium surfaces can be purchased from most auto shops.
Remember we are only talking about a very fine crack/scrape here where the oil seeps out over a number of days to weeks not in a catastrophic momment and simply topping it up is enough to get you going safely.
Only a git would try to patch a gaping whole. I don't think we are referring to that.
My experience on my E30 323 is that the sump gets a fairly light scraped on the front under side near the drain plug due to the natural slope producing one or two fine hair like cracks.
We're also talking about an aluminium sump which is to a certain extent malleable and does not suddenly explode and dump the oil, but rather dents. I think you have to be doing something pritty stupid or unlucky to knock a gaping whole in the sump and in any case it would probably tear from the block. Either way you would be stuffed and a pritty stupid git to keep driving the car like that.
The aluminium epoxy is a good and reliable fix in certain situations (minor cracks) but of course you have to be a bit intelligent about when to use it or when not to.
Only a git would try to patch a gaping whole. I don't think we are referring to that.
My experience on my E30 323 is that the sump gets a fairly light scraped on the front under side near the drain plug due to the natural slope producing one or two fine hair like cracks.
We're also talking about an aluminium sump which is to a certain extent malleable and does not suddenly explode and dump the oil, but rather dents. I think you have to be doing something pritty stupid or unlucky to knock a gaping whole in the sump and in any case it would probably tear from the block. Either way you would be stuffed and a pritty stupid git to keep driving the car like that.
The aluminium epoxy is a good and reliable fix in certain situations (minor cracks) but of course you have to be a bit intelligent about when to use it or when not to.
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handpaper
- E30 Zone Regular
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Don, metal-loaded epoxy will stop a leak temporarily but should never be considered as a permanent repair. The biggest problem is the difference in thermal expansion rates between the aluminum sump and the epoxy resin (yes, the metal loading will help, no, it's not enough). Over time and repeated hot/cold cycles the epoxy will crack away from the sump until it eventually falls off in a lump.
My car gets used on the Nurburgring, where my dropped oil could mean someone's life - I can't afford to take that risk.
Here's what I did
My car gets used on the Nurburgring, where my dropped oil could mean someone's life - I can't afford to take that risk.
Here's what I did
I'm very jealous that you are able to drive on the Nurburgring. Also sounds like we all have degrees in industrial chemistry ;)
Personally I don't track my car and the aluminium epoxy fix has never leaked in approx five years. The last time the fix failed was when I scraped the sump again.
The Al epoxy depending on brand (e.g., Pyro-Weld) has Shear strengths in excess of 3000 psi and maintains integrity in temperature ranges from -50 to 400ºF. Much colder or hotter than the bottom of the sump.
You now carbon disc rotors and some pads are made with epoxy resins and work at approx 400ºC. Some epoxys will withstand up to 1000ºF (540ºC).
With that said, I agree the Al-epoxy repair should be considered as a temporary fix particulary if you drive on rough roads. However the fix can last many years until one has time to fix it properly.
Ultimately the only way to fix the problem is to install a bash plate in which there is an air gap between the plate and the sump.
By the way, there is a lot of cars out there leaking oil without cracked sumps. I hope you can sleep at night.
Personally I don't track my car and the aluminium epoxy fix has never leaked in approx five years. The last time the fix failed was when I scraped the sump again.
The Al epoxy depending on brand (e.g., Pyro-Weld) has Shear strengths in excess of 3000 psi and maintains integrity in temperature ranges from -50 to 400ºF. Much colder or hotter than the bottom of the sump.
You now carbon disc rotors and some pads are made with epoxy resins and work at approx 400ºC. Some epoxys will withstand up to 1000ºF (540ºC).
With that said, I agree the Al-epoxy repair should be considered as a temporary fix particulary if you drive on rough roads. However the fix can last many years until one has time to fix it properly.
Ultimately the only way to fix the problem is to install a bash plate in which there is an air gap between the plate and the sump.
By the way, there is a lot of cars out there leaking oil without cracked sumps. I hope you can sleep at night.
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town325i
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yes i can my engine dosnt leak any oil at all and when its back in the car it defintly wont leak how much the complete gasket set has cost me some do thing right the first time and then dont have to mess about again
no amount of Al epoxy resin is going to fix that 