E30 Zone

Reading all the "vs" threads I wonder what people think of this comparison, cos I've always thought there is a very close comparison between the two...

Prices are sort of on a par...
944 2.7s start at around £1k and the 16v S2s from around £2k

Both of same sort of vintage
Both RWD
Both about the same power and power to weight ratio
Both quality German built cars
Both "drivers" cars

I too, am thinking about this one at the moment. I would only get a standard 2.7, I would like to note that you can actually get insurance much cheaper for the porsche

Good comparison. I went from a 944 Turbo to my first E30.

944 actually feels heavier. It's just sort of more 'solid'. You sit in a more reclined position and it feels like a sports car rather than the family saloon that the E30 is.

If you get the back swinging in the 944 it's much more likely to catch you out. You've got the transaxle hanging out the back. For what it's worth I crashed mine into a tunnel on the Leeds ring road and there's still a red stripe along the concrete 7 years later.

Fushion_Julz wrote: Both quality German built cars

are you sure?

after reading lots of PPC mag i dont know if the porsche is.

I've driven a 944 Turbo at a trackday at Croft twice, did feel a solid car, slow steering though.

I managed a full 360 in the wet on the exit at Tower Bend, it just went without any real provocation or boost, was like a pendulum.

Would love to have one, but as Ric has said, I also read about a lot of expensive breakdowns with 944's in various mags, usually engine related and the other bits are pricey too.

I'd be quite happy with a nice 924 which is proper driveway mechanic stuff and nice cheap VW parts from GSF to keep it running

E30BeemerLad wrote: I'd be quite happy with a nice 924 which is proper driveway mechanic stuff and nice cheap VW parts from GSF to keep it running

some van engine goodness

they are good fun, my mate had one at 18! lucky punk.

i need to get my hands on a 325i again. driving this 1979 volvo 343 is getting to now, the novelty has worn off.

I've had a 944 and and two E30s.

The only thing making me hesitant about the 944 is the "he couldn't afford a new Porsche so he's bought an old one for the just for the name" assumptions people make (and they do) where as the people see my E30 cabbies as a classic or a banger, either way: not a car for pr**ks.

My 944 was only a 2.5, not a Turbo but I didn't have any problem with unexpected oversteer, just the same as I don't in the 325. Mine was quite alot slower than a 325i and didn't have the oomph to kick out the tail in the dry, unlike my 325.

The most sublime part of the Porsche was the way all the controls felt balanced and equally weighted. In that way it felt better engineered than the E30.

Parts were bloody expensive. The rear window cost the insurance company £1200 and the parts for a brake overhall (disks and pads, they don't have wear senders) was over £500.

The Porsche was surprisingly practiacal for 2 people and very comfortable over long distance feeling "planted" and stable at constant high speed. More so than an E30. On the back roads its responses were always very linear but they were not quick - probably slower than the 325.

My 325 is currently being repaired (thanks GoosieGander). If I don't fall back in love with it I'll be selling it, probably to replace it with a 944 Turbo.

HTH!

ps I think you are undervaluing 944s. I don't think you'll find an S2 for £2k. S2s have the turbo style front and 3L engine. An 'S' is a 16 valve 2.5 or 2.7 (depending on age) with the original front. There is some debate in 944 circles as to which is best - turbo (250bhp) or S2 (211?bhp) but both cost £4k upwards for something decent.

I have a 944s 16v waitng for me! Will be round with the pennies as soon as my car sells,would rather have a 968 clubsport but I will save that for next year!

ChrisBarns wrote:ps I think you are undervaluing 944s. I don't think you'll find an S2 for £2k. S2s have the turbo style front and 3L engine. An 'S' is a 16 valve 2.5 or 2.7 (depending on age) with the original front. There is some debate in 944 circles as to which is best - turbo (250bhp) or S2 (211?bhp) but both cost £4k upwards for something decent.

How true! I've only came across a £2k S2 once and it would have needed another £3k thrown at it to get it anywhere near decent.


Taylor.

ChrisBarns wrote:ps I think you are undervaluing 944s. I don't think you'll find an S2 for £2k. S2s have the turbo style front and 3L engine. An 'S' is a 16 valve 2.5 or 2.7 (depending on age) with the original front. There is some debate in 944 circles as to which is best - turbo (250bhp) or S2 (211?bhp) but both cost £4k upwards for something decent.

quick look on autotrader

http://search.autotrader.co.uk/es-uk/ww ... x_mileage=

There are indeed an incredible amount of utterly crap 944s about.

I looked at about 30 over 6 months before I bought mine. I paid £5.5k in 2000 - prices have stayed strong and the same car would be worth at least that now.

Fushion_Julz wrote:

ChrisBarns wrote:ps I think you are undervaluing 944s. I don't think you'll find an S2 for £2k. S2s have the turbo style front and 3L engine. An 'S' is a 16 valve 2.5 or 2.7 (depending on age) with the original front. There is some debate in 944 circles as to which is best - turbo (250bhp) or S2 (211?bhp) but both cost £4k upwards for something decent.

quick look on autotrader

http://search.autotrader.co.uk/es-uk/ww ... x_mileage=

That link that you posted is the exact car that I'm talking about. It looks fine in the ad but the guy neglects to say in the ad that it is for spares or repair! I went to see it with a mate who was interested in buying it. It needs bodywork doing, a complete respray, has holes on some interior trim and it also has an engine problem.



Taylor.

Fair enough, chap, you've seen it, but I do know that there are other S2s around at <£3K...I went to see one a few months ago priced at 2600...It wasn't bad, perfectly usable if high mileage...

Decided not to go for it on the basis that the seller looked and sounded a bit "dubious" and had almost no knowledge of what he was selling!

What was the engine problem on that one?

I've owned a 944 2.5 recently, and it was a very nice car indeed. Mine's a series II, with power steering and front aluminium suspension, that gave a very light gentle feeling.
I was a drivers car handling wise, bet the engine lacked punch. Performance was a bad point. Plus it wasnt that reliable, and I sold it when I realised I was facing a cambelt change because of front crankshaft seal failure.

Unlike 924, you get proper Porsche engineering, but you get proper Porsche prices too!
Labor and parts are bloody expensive, and the car itself isnt as rewarding as the prices suggest.
Maybe the Turbo or the S2 is another story.

I sold it and bought the IS, and not one minute of regrets!!!

EDIT: 944's rust proof is very very good for a car from early nineties!!!

Oversteer wrote: EDIT: 944's rust proof is very very good for a car from early nineties!!!

yeah, I know galvanising isn't for life but i've never seen a rusty 944.

Pity about the early dash cracks, the crappy seat material and the dodgy plastics.
My pld 1978 924 is being thrashed on a track in the south somewhere by its new owner. 924S ain't too bad.

Apparently some 924 suspension parts were shared with the VW Beetle 1302S

Speedtouch wrote:Apparently some 924 suspension parts were shared with the VW Beetle 1302S

That's the beauty of the 924. There's always a crappy VW usefull for parts!

924S has the Porsche 2.5 engine, with L-jet, so no VW to help if things go wrong!

I've considered purchasing a 944 for a while, having had 5 325i E30's in various shells and a track slag. I have also had an E36 325i (bit quicker but too subtle), and an old skool M535i (E28) with high light cams and powerflow exhaust 240 BHP, fast for 10 miles before you pulled into the next petrol station to fill her up. And a chimera.

The 944 is supposedly better balanced than the 325 having it's gearbox near the arse until the e30 where all the weight is up front. They must handle well as they use them to teach novices at the Nurbergring, along with Alfa 75's (3 litre V6).

You cannot get an s2 for £2k, if you did it would need another £2k spending on it. The s2 is a 3 litre 16 valuve 4 pot will 211 BHP. Obviously with better handling and an extra 40 bhp on tap it's going to be quicker than a 325, although the 944 is approx 200 klios heavier than the E30. Eben so the 40 extra ponies would make a big difference I imagine.

The 944 s is a the 2.5 4 pot with a 16 valve head producing 190 BHP. However I have looked into these and the engine is generally considered to be the weakest in the range and lost's of expensive belts and bits need to be changed unless good bye engine, hello £2K for a new one.

The standard 2.5 and later 2.7 8 valves are robust to a point, put with only 163 bhp (2.5) and an extra 200 kilos they must surely be slower than a good 325 which is considerably lighter and slightly more powerful.

The major thing that put's me off if the price if the Porche goes wrong, and if your spending sup £2K it will. Probably best to stick with the E30 unless you have deep pockets.

very interesting thread. I thought about various 944s. I think in the end the cost put me off. You can get a pretty nice e30 for half-decent 944 money. I hadn't thought about parts costs either.

im bmw to the core. 325 all the way.

well, while I was looking for an E30 M3, I considered a Porsche 924 Carrera GT...

Although they are (or were) a bit dearer than an M3, they offer similar performance and even more rarity value...

I just knew that buying one would have me still wanting an M3 and I would have ended up with both!

I've had a 2.5 944 (1986 car)...
It was a good bit heavier than an e30 and that meant slower accelerating and the feeling was of a bigger, heavier car...But *drive* it at the limit and it handled better than a 325...It was also a much better motorway mile-muncher...

I collected it from Frankfurt in Germany and drove to Stuttgart at an average speed of over 100mph! Stepped out and felt like I'd just been to the shops...
Felt fantastic at high speed...something my 325 doesn't, really...Over 120ish it starts to feel "skittery" (the M3 is better in this respect) and doesn't inspire much confidence...The Porsche also had much better brakes!

Thinking 924,how does the body dimensions compare to an E30? I am thinking length and width and 'er indoors parking skills here....