E30 Zone

zoners like the subject states which one is better

both stock cars no personal mods done on them what so ever just a nice stock m3 e30 and a astra vxr

in addition if anyone could say which is beter relating to the list below:

-Track preformance
-Stright line
-Top end screemin its nuts out lol
-The handling and reliability
-0 to 60

im wanting to know the diffrence from the m3 because everyone has told me thats the best e30 yet around so if anyone knows of a better standart stock e30 which is better then the one i mentioned also stock m3 then please do note it.

any help much apppreciated

cheers Guys

Jazz

your only going to get one answer to that on here. what power is in the astra? whats the big car in the vxr range? i had a guy in the estate version try to outrun me and although i overtook him there wasnt that much in it

I have no time for pauxhalls (especially the disastra and corsa) since i had to replace my timing chain after 20k miles on a near brand near car...

I sold my old E34 525i Sport (M50) that had nearly 150k on the original timing chain and not a rattle. Enough said

No contest in my eyes.

Go and park up in your local tescos. You will most likely see 3 or 4 VXR's minimum. Will you see an E30 M3.....prob not. I know thats not the point but still. They are common as shite.

I think they are very similar 0-60. But i would think the M3 would out handle it.

The m3 is an icon but the VXR is just another hot hatch.

hammoj28 wrote:No contest in my eyes.

Go and park up in your local tescos. You will most likely see 3 or 4 VXR's minimum. Will you see an E30 M3.....prob not. I know thats not the point but still. They are common as shite.

I think they are very similar 0-60. But i would think the M3 would out handle it.

The m3 is an icon but the VXR is just another hot hatch.

could the vxr be an icon in the making?

I doubt it.lol But you never know tho eh.......

cheers guys for the help and yes i found a site that shows the stats for the astra vxr 2007 i belive its a 2.0lter not to sure tho but again can anyone find one site close to this for the m3

http://www.fasthatchbacks.com/cardetails.php?carlist=((743))

fuzzy the power in the astra well i mentioned stock astra vxr assuming it just drives out the showroom full of cars again no mods done to it no nutting just the way vauxhall made it and named it the vxr

people don tget e wrong im not looking to get one i love my e30's itsjust that my close friend got ont and now clames hes got better handliing then alll e30 m3's i knw a weirdo but hey that him lol.......

appreciate all help given and yet to be given

Jazz

Pretty sure the astra vxr is pretty swift, 60 comes in 6.4 seconds according to Parkers. But its all through the front wheels so it torque steers like a dog and handles like a shopping trolley. E30 M3 may not be as quick but it's in a different league handling wise and although I haven't driven either I'd put money on the bm being more fun as well. Plus you've got the whole rarity thing to consider.

i would never buy a front wheel drive car,

no offence, but whats the point?

e30 m3's are classics a drivers car!

dare i say it the vxr is quicker and has the m3 kicked in all but 1 of those catagories - handling and reliabiity

handling the e30 m3 is just "right" nothing special to make it right over a normal e30 it's just very proper and very driver friendly I've got crossed up in mine and when my talent has run out the m3 steps in holds my hand and shows me the way out.. I doubt a snappy, fwd, on-off power delivery and hard as bollocks suspension would do that.. it grips it grips then your off into a tree.. marvellous.

reliability... well the e30 M3 being the most sucessful touring car using a weedy 2.3/5 4 pot 16v which tbh think it quite an achievement! You see them turbo'd to high heaven tuned to the nut sack screaming at 9k and I've seen some with over 200k on the clock...now tell me a 2ltr turbo made in ellesmere port - council capital of the world is going to be as good as M powers finest hour

The M3 was built when quality was considered regarless of expense. I have a 2006 Astra (not through choice) and it has NO quality regardless of what it would have cost to build any into it.

The E30 is an Icon especially the M3.

The Astra (+ vauxhalls in general) is sh*t. Having been around cars since the year dot Vauxhalls have never (in my eyes) cut it. The Cortina was always a better car than the Victor. The Granada was always a better car than the Senator or Royal before it (yes I had both), The Escort was always a better car than the Chevette. And then the 3, 5 and 7 series BMW's came along and brought quality and reliability to the masses.

Handling wise. The Astra is all torque steer and understeer (which is ridiculous by the way) It's so bad that I'm surprised they ever got away with selling any. The BMW is all controlable over steer and set the benchmark that many still can't match.

End of.

B7 wrote:The M3 was built when quality was considered regarless of expense. I have a 2006 Astra (not through choice) and it has NO quality regardless of what it would have cost to build any into it.

The E30 is an Icon especially the M3.

The Astra (+ vauxhalls in general) is sh*t. Having been around cars since the year dot Vauxhalls have never (in my eyes) cut it. The Cortina was always a better car than the Victor. The Granada was always a better car than the Senator or Royal before it (yes I had both), The Escort was always a better car than the Chevette. And then the 3, 5 and 7 series BMW's came along and brought quality and reliability to the masses.

Handling wise. The Astra is all torque steer and understeer (which is ridiculous by the way) It's so bad that I'm surprised they ever got away with selling any. The BMW is all controlable over steer and set the benchmark that many still can't match.

End of.

sounds good to me x2

pfff.....who wants FWD

Arstra - coming to a council estate near you. I'm sure it makes a nice hire car (as do most Poxhalls) but you only have to examine the 'Boy Band hair' owners replete with spray tan Mrs in the passenger seat to sum up the VXR. Same with Civics plus those ghastly orange Focus RS things along with all that other tedious modern crap.
The VXR will go the same way as all the rest of the shite GM have made. Showroom - Ist owner - scratter/Yes Car Finance - Council Estate - scrapyard.

Vauxhall puuuu!
All Vauxhalls are held together with self tap screws and they dont even bother to try and hide it.
Like was said before E30 M3, Motoring and motorsport legend, Vauxhall Astra cheap and chearfull hire car at best!!!
Dont really know why vauxhall are going down the route of sticking a big fook off engine in a normall car and calling it a VXR.
Its all wrong.
Vauxhall Astra, front wheel drive wrongness, BMW rear wheel drive rightness.

EASY CHOICE!!!

no1_jazz wrote:BMW E30 M3 OR VAUXHALL ASTRA VXR

Do you really need to ask?

I do like the VXR's very much but being front wheel drive would put me off. There quite rare as not many are being sold. i'm about to get a VX220 turbo.

IMHO, The VXR is to compete in this hot hatch scene as did the 205 gti, R5GTturbo, fiesta xr2i , RS turbo's etc
many moons ago. but you have to say they all became icon's to some people
I believe these cars to abosloute tat after driving one it was like driving a high powered shed with no feel on the steering. The brakes felt like a couple 2p's overall not a nice piece of kit .
to compare it with a bavairan touring car its just senseless. M3 all the way for me oh yes and starp a massive turbo to it then you can really have some fun.
regards
Mr M Fowler..

There have only ever been two FWD hot hatches worth a toss. A Mark 1/2 Golf GTi is one, the Clio Williams was another and as a car the Clio was better than a Golf but not as well put together. XR2's, Astra GTE's and Renault 5's (turbo on a carburettor 1.4 OHV FFS!)were all crap. The 205GTi was good but are vicious little bastards on the limit. The Clio Williams can (just about) be mentioned in the same breath as an M3 because it was such a fantastic car to drive and looked great. A heavy, airbagged Vauxhall shed doesn't. I hate GM stuff with a passion. The only good thing to come out of Vauxhall was the 16v engine and even that was designed by someone else.

An M3 will be an investment but a vxr will drop like a rock in value.

BMW M Divison, or 'VXR' Marketing division?

Exactly...

One genuinely tells you the car is going to be great, the other just tells you they thought of some letters.

There have only ever been two FWD hot hatches worth a toss. A Mark 1/2 Golf GTi is one, the Clio Williams was another and as a car the Clio was better than a Golf but not as well put together. XR2's, Astra GTE's and Renault 5's (turbo on a carburettor 1.4 OHV FFS!)were all crap. The 205GTi was good but are vicious little bastards on the limit. The Clio Williams can (just about) be mentioned in the same breath as an M3 because it was such a fantastic car to drive and looked great. A heavy, airbagged Vauxhall shed doesn't. I hate GM stuff with a passion. The only good thing to come out of Vauxhall was the 16v engine and even that was designed by someone else.

Totally agreed
Mr everett

andyboy my sentiments exactly.. my regard of GM seems about as high!

Going fast in a straight line is pretty pants anyway...

Going round corners is where it's at.

Torque steer anyone?

Totally agree about the torque steer. There's so much torque steer in a VXR I thought the wheels were falling off. When I was temping at a Vauxhall garage last year I was amazed how cheaply made everything was, which is especially disturbing if you are going fast in any of their widget production scale bloody cars.

Andyboy wrote:There have only ever been two FWD hot hatches worth a toss. A Mark 1/2 Golf GTi is one, the Clio Williams was another and as a car the Clio was better than a Golf but not as well put together. XR2's, Astra GTE's and Renault 5's (turbo on a carburettor 1.4 OHV FFS!)were all crap. The 205GTi was good but are vicious little bastards on the limit. The Clio Williams can (just about) be mentioned in the same breath as an M3 because it was such a fantastic car to drive and looked great. A heavy, airbagged Vauxhall shed doesn't. I hate GM stuff with a passion. The only good thing to come out of Vauxhall was the 16v engine and even that was designed by someone else.

Agreed /\/\

VXR Classic in the making??? I think not. Obsolete within a few years just like all the rest of them.


M3 all the way and would never dream of comparing it against the above.
Second hand E30 M3's fetching more than some of the M3 E36 versions. That says it all.

come on guys get real the astra vxr was never made to compete with the likes of ANY bmw never mind the m3. it was built to run against the same fwd offerings from ford , citreon , renault , volkswagen ect. and as far as im aware vauxhall dont have a rwd four/three door in there range other than monaro vxr/vxr8 (which is supposed to be a very good drive), and the only other vauxhall thats rwd is the vx220 turbo (not sure if its still in production)

maybe a better comparison would be the bmw e30 m3 and the lotus carlton?


(oh and the GM 1.9cdti is a mighty fine engine)

c18xe wrote: maybe a better comparison would be the bmw e30 m3 and the lotus carlton?

Surely the carlton was pitched against the M5? Have to admit not even the mighty lotus carlton lit my fire even when new. I grew up with Lotus's (Elans, Europas, Elites etc) and still have a soft spot for them but not even that famous badge could not hide the fact it was a Vauxhall.

B7 wrote:

c18xe wrote: maybe a better comparison would be the bmw e30 m3 and the lotus carlton?

Surely the carlton was pitched against the M5? Have to admit not even the mighty lotus carlton lit my fire even when new. I grew up with Lotus's (Elans, Europas, Elites etc) and still have a soft spot for them but not even that famous badge could not hide the fact it was a Vauxhall.

well then the only comparison would be the monaro vxr?

The only thing from vauxhall I like is the 10/40 semi synth at traders special price

c18xe wrote:
maybe a better comparison would be the bmw e30 m3 and the lotus carlton?

not at all. that would be like a heavyweight elephant getting mildly annoyed at the small fly buzzing around him.

Wouldn't be annoyed for long though, as it'd easily p*ss off into the distance The Lotus was a raw animal, if I remember one of the test drivers was killed at the time it was being developed, but that may have been urban myth. I was riding a ZZR1100 (which is no slouch) from Warminster down to the south coast a few years back, one of the few Lotus Carltons I've seen on the road was on the same route, and was able to overtake on short straights and get back into the traffic just as easily as I could on the bike. And I mean from 50 or so up to silly speeds then back to merge with the traffic like no other car I've ever seen. And I've either owned or driven a lot of the modern quick stuff like scoobies and Mitsi Evos and had a lot of quick bikes, have raced cars and bikes, so I'm not easily impressed.

Sure the Lotus was quick, VERY quick and you are right, the brakes were incredible but to me, it's a vauxhall.....full stop.

B7 wrote:Sure the Lotus was quick, VERY quick and you are right, the brakes were incredible but to me, it's a vauxhall.....full stop.

The Lotus Carlton/Omega (it's name in Germany) is a legend. Probably every bit as good as the B10 BiTurbo and properly handled it would walk away from a standardish M3. It was GM's two finger salute to Ford and it did make the Sierra Cosworth look a bit tame.

maybe a better comparison would be the bmw e30 m3 and the lotus carlton?

No comparison can be made between these two,as completely different machines.

The Lotus Carlton/Omega (it's name in Germany) is a legend.

Agreed.

it's a vauxhall.....full stop.

Thing is,although it has a carlton bodyshell,it was still issued with a lotus chassis number (type 104).
I would have one ASAP but the running costs can be excessive!
The VXR will go the same way that the GTE did.