E30 Zone

As per the title, however much i love my e30 i am still heavily drawn back to the mark 2 Golf, particularly the 16v.
Am i right in thinking most of us on here like them too?
There are some similarities and some obvious differences but both are future classics with similar histories.
The one pictured below is identical to my old Golf barring the BBS (mine had Borbets), and mine was a really dark metallic blue, looked black to most people. Personally i think the BMW has a more solid, safer feel, but lacks the go-kart feel of sharp handling the Golf had. Without a doubt the gearbox in the BMW is vastly superior and this was the real let down on the Golf for me.

&

Discuss!

(mods please don't move to pub chat, i don't drink. )

Had a mk2 8v 5dr with 198k on it- faster than a certain 318iS..

Mk2's rock- love the close ratio gearbox- something that only the 325i sport ever really got close to (ie always in the powerband 1st, 2nd and 3rd)

5dr hatchback is a practical weapon, and build quality is a sgood as a BMW in my opinion.

they're let down by 2 things

gearbox-clunky and selectors easily broken

FWD!

Its a fat Mk1...

nasty nasty nasty. The only mk2 worth its salt is the g60.

I have a hankering for mk2 8v small bumper and love the mk1, but i'm a BMW man and thats the way i'm staying! (for now anyway)
Raul fellow non drinker

I like both, hard a hard choice of what to get as a first car but E30's RWD wins it.

I had a really clean late MK2 GTi 16V 3 door about 6 years ago. It has to be one of the most driveable and enjoyable cars I have ever owned.

As for performance vs the 325i - myself and E30Pilot did went head to head many many times!

The 325i is ultimately quicker over 100mph but there is not alot in it upto that. In some places the GTi went better.

The GTi definately went round bends alot better and with more confidence.

I would definately buy a super clean GTi again.

Evo-S

we've argued about this already ....

I've had 2x 8V and the 16V mk2, all 3-doors - and done alot of miles in them (never had a gearbox problem).

Superb cars - significantly lighter than the E30, faster A-B, and I bet it would be faster round any track. The only reason I don't have a mk2 16V now is that I already have a mk1, and I wanted a decent convertible (and VW have never done a good convertible )

Let's not forget that the 318iS and the 325 Sport were BMWs attempts to get close to the hot hatches of the time, but that's all they did - get close. EVO magazine gives the mk2 16V a 5 star rating - the only E30 they rate is the M3.

GTI vs e30... hmm let me think... Carmen Electra vs Beyonce Knowles? I'll take both, please.

Ive had various examples of both, and having thought about it, it is a very difficult choice. I have in the past been a bit of a rwd snob but the reality is (as someone has mentioned) that around a track or a tasty b road I would bet on the valver - they are an absolute hoot when you are screaming the nuts off them. But Ive had more E30s than mk2s, so maybe my heart is still with the BM.

If you trade cars part time like I do then you can have both... Ive had a small bumper valver, a tech2 touring and a tech1 sport in the last 12 months

Good call

The BMW (325) feels a slightly more meaty car than a MK2 to me, but I'd be more imspired to "give it some" and maybe test my limits in the MK2 than the E30 through some twisties.

Here's the 16V I got the missus a few months back, we're slowly going through the car and replacing the worn out bits and I've got some H&R springs ready to go on and give it a 40mm drop, just got a PAS kit for it (heavy as fook at the mo) got some 280mm front discs and bigger calipers waiting also.
love the momo wheel it came with

It came with these 16" Mims on, but it drove a bit crap with them and one was bent

so whilst I was encouraging her to hold out for some BBS, the missus couldn't wait and some ripspeed wrongness went on


just got to get 90 spec or G60 arches and the small side strips to complete the big bumper look as it started life as a small bumper 16V

Still feels rough as arseholes after getting out the soararse

Ive never really liked the golf mk2.....

My sister had a 16v gti back in 1999(when they had a value). She let me borrow it, this is not long after i passed my test. Even though it could murder any e30 bar an m3 on a twisty b road I would much prefer the bm.

The interior is poor imo, very plasticy. The driving position is ape like. I think they are overated.

I had a 1.9 peugeot gti not long after, and that was far more of a weapon.

I wouldnt mind a late big bumper as per the picture i guess, but i dont think it has the appeal or looks as a nice e30 2 door.

The E30 defo feels better quality inside.

Without PS the MK2 is horrible to drive. Luckily mine has PS and amazingly electric windows!

Evo-S

jonb wrote: I had a 1.9 peugeot gti not long after, and that was far more of a weapon.

Got to agree with that one, a decent 1.9 pug that hasn't fallen to bits is a proper driver's tool, far more poise than the golf

ive been into dubs since i can remember still own a mk1 sportline cab. the mk2 16v is a totally different to an E30, both very good cars no dispute about that and i guess its a matter of prefrence at the end of the day, very hard choice though!!

I had a MK 2 8v and it was ok but not nearly as much fun as the MK1 I had when a wee lad, fookin loved it but being a young un at the time all my cash went on beer and chasing women and finally had to get rid.

Sold it for £400 quid and it was then written off in a police chase a couple of weeks later.

As a styling tool I'd love a golf, but as said a 205 gti is a far superior drive. I miss mine

E30BeemerLad wrote:

jonb wrote: I had a 1.9 peugeot gti not long after, and that was far more of a weapon.

Got to agree with that one, a decent 1.9 pug that hasn't fallen to bits is a proper driver's tool, far more poise than the golf

weapon, yes - more poise? naaaah

A mate had a 1.9 the same time I had the 16v; the 1.9 is lighter and so it is quicker, but the handling is on a knife-edge. It's not just the build quality of VW over Pug that has resulted in many more 16v surviving; it's the fact that the Pug ends up in the scenery much more often - you could say that it needs a better driver, but I think a car that bites-back so often when you take it to the limit is NOT as much fun.

doughboy wrote:As a styling tool I'd love a golf, but as said a 205 gti is a far superior drive. I miss mine

Fast but ultimately in a much lower class, i throw this in with the renault 19 16v, a disposable animal,

dont see many of these around now, i guess the French metal has pretty much completely oxidized.

The Golf GTI mk 2 was never really a serious hot hatch, it just looked and felt better, and had more potential as a classic, due to its better build quality (imo). Thats why i like to draw e30 comparisons, as someone pointed out up there ^ the e30 was never really a serious contender to the hot hatch crown. Just a bloody good car with a large slice of cool thrown at it.

On a treacherous note my Missus thinks the BMW looks like a turd compared to the Golf. Women eh.

MK1 golf = hell yeah. MK2 just doesn't really do as much for me... Nice to drive, but ultimately limited by the fact that it's FWD in terms of fun too.

I like mk2 golfs, I think it was mainly due to it being the first car I had. After lowering it, it handled like it was on rails, but that was probably more to do with the fact it couldn't pull the skin off a rice pudding being the lowly carbed 1.6 which incidently froze all the time. Interior trim was mank tbh, dials crap the e30 is very solid inside as Jon said. The e30 also has an ideal driving position, I think it is lower down, or it feels lower down but its a much nicer seating and driving position.

The 205gti is a little weapon, unfortunatly prices are starting to rise for them now that I want one, well the shell anyway. Interior condition is truely shocking, you know it is bad when a good glovebox fetches upwards of £50 They have mostly been owned by undesirables, like me, and suffer poor maintenance and hence everything seems to fall off them. All part of the fun I suppose.

Currently trying to source a 205 shell and an mi16 engine for a little fun project. Best of both worlds, good light fwd shell with good handling characteristics and a proper engine

jonb wrote:Ive never really liked the golf mk2.....

My sister had a 16v gti back in 1999(when they had a value). She let me borrow it, this is not long after i passed my test. Even though it could murder any e30 bar an m3 on a twisty b road I would much prefer the bm.

The interior is poor imo, very plasticy. The driving position is ape like. I think they are overated.

I had a 1.9 peugeot gti not long after, and that was far more of a weapon.

I wouldnt mind a late big bumper as per the picture i guess, but i dont think it has the appeal or looks as a nice e30 2 door.

I have to agree with blacklaws the butcher here. Fiar enough they look quite nice with a few touches. However they are common as much now and are big with the rudeboy crew. I also agree about the interiors; absolutely shite; my mate has had three 16valve mk2 golfs; all with electric windows; however none worked; one window even jammed half open. the electrics inside arent too good either.

Granted they are faster than most e30s but that doesnt make it a good car. Still FWD also. But if i was offered a mint 16v yes i would take it

There are a few E30 M3 owners who also own Golf GTi's and the like for 2nd cars.

Personally I do like them....But the 8v and 16v are totally different in how they deliver thier performance. Its a shame they couldn't get the low down grunt of the 8v in the 16v. That would have been a rude bit of kit

The VW are structually better built, the metal seems to me to be a thicker grade of steel than the E30.

Other good thing about the Golf, they have the same wheel stud pattern as the E30 (NOT M3) so all can't be bad can it?

Did any one say onion bhaji !

pacerpete wrote:Did any one say onion bhaji !

you found what i need yet ?? oh and how's the zebra chaser !!

Ziggy wrote:MK1 golf = hell yeah. MK2 just doesn't really do as much for me... Nice to drive, but ultimately limited by the fact that it's FWD in terms of fun too.

Agreed.

Mk1 was by far the superior. Even a lowly 4 door 1.6 driver was great fun to hoon about in being young and fearless. P-slot's rule!

Mk 2 is just fat, and crap.

E30 over a mk2, mk1 over an e30. But they go for stupid money and aren't worth what people pay. (mint cotton wool'd mk1 gti with about 20k on the clock recently sold for 10k iirc)

For bang for your buck, the rwd-ness and affordability of an e30 beats them all hands down.

cant beat a e30 over the mk2 gti

Mk2 pisses all over a MK 1 in original guise. Better handling for starters. Much more refined car. People view mk1's through rose tinted glasses. Mk2 was deinately an improvement. IIRC the braking was also vastly improved.

I drove a mk2 with the 150bhp engine conevrsion. Fooking rapid car, a real torque monster happily out pulling a brand new turdy diseasal Audi a4 up hill. The handling on the mk2 is superb. Get great economy out of the 1.8 engine too. I had an Audi 80 sport 1982 mk1 with the same engine in as the golf. Not sure if the gearing was different or if the longitudinal mounting helped, but that really put the power down better than the golf did. Proper rapid sleeper, loved that car, annoyed a lot of Chicken Paxo drivers.

Like for like, 1.8 golf gti 16v v's 318is, I'd have the golf every time. If it was a 325 v's the golf, I'd have the 325i.

munky30 wrote:

Ziggy wrote:MK1 golf = hell yeah. MK2 just doesn't really do as much for me... Nice to drive, but ultimately limited by the fact that it's FWD in terms of fun too.

Agreed.

Mk1 was by far the superior. Even a lowly 4 door 1.6 driver was great fun to hoon about in being young and fearless. P-slot's rule!

Mk 2 is just fat, and crap.

E30 over a mk2, mk1 over an e30. But they go for stupid money and aren't worth what people pay. (mint cotton wool'd mk1 gti with about 20k on the clock recently sold for 10k iirc)

For bang for your buck, the rwd-ness and affordability of an e30 beats them all hands down.

Mk2 fat and crap? only good Mk2 is a G60??

You don't really know much about dubs do you, is this 'internet fact'?

I've been into dubs for years and owned all the GTI's, the Mk2 is a far better car than a Mk1, better handling, more rigid shell, MUCH better brakes, I could go on...

Yes, the Mk1 is amazing on its own but without any bias (and Mk1'are my favourite) then in objective terms the Mk2 beats it in every department.

As for the G60 engine, even VW itself realised the limitations of this engine and it was short lived and ultimately unsuccessful in it's original intention, motorsport success. Ok, so tuners can get more out of them but we're talking standard here no?

As for RWD, can't deny it, golf is FWD but without an LSD, I really don't get much RWDness out of my E30, 95% of the time, it makes no difference - although, I accept, this last bit is my opinion...

As for the original question, only one answer, both.

pictonroad wrote:

munky30 wrote:

Ziggy wrote:MK1 golf = hell yeah. MK2 just doesn't really do as much for me... Nice to drive, but ultimately limited by the fact that it's FWD in terms of fun too.

Agreed.

Mk1 was by far the superior. Even a lowly 4 door 1.6 driver was great fun to hoon about in being young and fearless. P-slot's rule!

Mk 2 is just fat, and crap.

E30 over a mk2, mk1 over an e30. But they go for stupid money and aren't worth what people pay. (mint cotton wool'd mk1 gti with about 20k on the clock recently sold for 10k iirc)

For bang for your buck, the rwd-ness and affordability of an e30 beats them all hands down.

Mk2 fat and crap? only good Mk2 is a G60??

You don't really know much about dubs do you, is this 'internet fact'?

I've been into dubs for years and owned all the GTI's, the Mk2 is a far better car than a Mk1, better handling, more rigid shell, MUCH better brakes, I could go on...

Yes, the Mk1 is amazing on its own but without any bias (and Mk1'are my favourite) then in objective terms the Mk2 beats it in every department.

As for the G60 engine, even VW itself realised the limitations of this engine and it was short lived and ultimately unsuccessful in it's original intention, motorsport success. Ok, so tuners can get more out of them but we're talking standard here no?

As for RWD, can't deny it, golf is FWD but without an LSD, I really don't get much RWDness out of my E30, 95% of the time, it makes no difference - although, I accept, this last bit is my opinion...

As for the original question, only one answer, both.

WHo said this was an unbiased fact based discussion?

IN MY OPINION the mk1 is a better car.

And yes, the g60 is the best engine to tune.

I must have missed the rules of this post, could you point them out to me so I dont annoy anyone else with my opinions and conjecture.

munky30 wrote: Mk1 was by far the superior. Even a lowly 4 door 1.6 driver was great fun to hoon about in being young and fearless. P-slot's rule!

Mk 2 is just fat, and crap.

now you see here you are just plain wrong - I've owned an unmodified mk1 for 12 years, and I owned a mk2 16v for 3 years during those 12 years... the mk1 was a lucky experiment by 6 engineers in their spare time, that happened to work; the mk2 was the full might of VW R&D doing their best to beat the opposition. As said above everything was improved, and the actual weights (not the 'my-mate-saw-one-once' weights) are approx 800-odd kg vs 900-odd kg...

munky30 wrote: E30 over a mk2, mk1 over an e30. But they go for stupid money and aren't worth what people pay. (mint cotton wool'd mk1 gti with about 20k on the clock recently sold for 10k iirc)

that's because it's rare - even you would be worth something if we preserved you in vinegar for 1,000 years

did you say P-slots rule? You're correct there.

I agree with you munky. Mk1s are gorgeous cars and I would NEVER buy a mk2 if I had the choice between the 2. But if I had the choice of a mk1/mk2 golf or a 325i I would go for the 325i. As fast, and with a few suspension tweaks, IMO, handles as well as, if not better than a mk2 gti.

the mk2 didnt beat the opposition though did it? In the mags at the time the renault Gt and the pug gti recieved better write-ups all round.

orangecurry wrote:

munky30 wrote: Mk1 was by far the superior. Even a lowly 4 door 1.6 driver was great fun to hoon about in being young and fearless. P-slot's rule!

Mk 2 is just fat, and crap.

now you see here you are just plain wrong - I've owned an unmodified mk1 for 12 years, and I owned a mk2 16v for 3 years during those 12 years... the mk1 was a lucky experiment by 6 engineers in their spare time, that happened to work; the mk2 was the full might of VW R&D doing their best to beat the opposition. As said above everything was improved, and the actual weights (not the 'my-mate-saw-one-once' weights) are approx 800-odd kg vs 900-odd kg...

Oooh here we go again.... Or not.

As I have said, MY OPINION (not fact, or figures, or anything but the thoughts I have in my tiny little simian brain) is that the mk2 is fat and crap. This is based on ownership of a mk1 driver, and having driven a fair few mk2's in varying form.

The mk1 gti was 'the original hot hatch' ('s are there for a reason as it technically wasnt) so its not just the looks and performance that make it desirable (TO ME), its the history and significance of the model.

Everything may have been improved (except the looks) but by that same token, would you rather have an e36 or an e30?

munky30 wrote: E30 over a mk2, mk1 over an e30. But they go for stupid money and aren't worth what people pay. (mint cotton wool'd mk1 gti with about 20k on the clock recently sold for 10k iirc)

that's because it's rare - even you would be worth something if we preserved you in vinegar for 1,000 years

did you say P-slots rule? You're correct there.

[/quote]

P-Slots do indeed rule... gay black bonnets don't though.

(oh and I am already priceless, no need to break out the vinegar. I know you want me in a jar on your mantlepiece but I have plans for the next 60 years... )

as an ownership proposition the Golf is the better choice than the french scrap, but brand new on the forecourt, I'd take the 5GT. My old man bought one brand new on a C reg, Pearl White, felt like a proper little missile

munky30 wrote:

pictonroad wrote:

munky30 wrote: Agreed.

Mk1 was by far the superior. Even a lowly 4 door 1.6 driver was great fun to hoon about in being young and fearless. P-slot's rule!

Mk 2 is just fat, and crap.

E30 over a mk2, mk1 over an e30. But they go for stupid money and aren't worth what people pay. (mint cotton wool'd mk1 gti with about 20k on the clock recently sold for 10k iirc)

For bang for your buck, the rwd-ness and affordability of an e30 beats them all hands down.

Mk2 fat and crap? only good Mk2 is a G60??

You don't really know much about dubs do you, is this 'internet fact'?

I've been into dubs for years and owned all the GTI's, the Mk2 is a far better car than a Mk1, better handling, more rigid shell, MUCH better brakes, I could go on...

Yes, the Mk1 is amazing on its own but without any bias (and Mk1'are my favourite) then in objective terms the Mk2 beats it in every department.

As for the G60 engine, even VW itself realised the limitations of this engine and it was short lived and ultimately unsuccessful in it's original intention, motorsport success. Ok, so tuners can get more out of them but we're talking standard here no?

As for RWD, can't deny it, golf is FWD but without an LSD, I really don't get much RWDness out of my E30, 95% of the time, it makes no difference - although, I accept, this last bit is my opinion...

As for the original question, only one answer, both.

WHo said this was an unbiased fact based discussion?

IN MY OPINION the mk1 is a better car.

And yes, the g60 is the best engine to tune.

I must have missed the rules of this post, could you point them out to me so I dont annoy anyone else with my opinions and conjecture.

point taken, but the Mk2 golf 16v is not fat and crap, it just isn't, opinion or not, it's under a metric ton, handles fantastically and goes like stink, that is not fat and crap and you can't possbily justify it...

oh, and G60 8v's are an automotive hiccup, G60 limited however.......