e30 fundamentally flawed?

[reggiegasket]

As a new member to e30zone, I'd like to say thanks to the people who set this site up.

I have a 318is, which I love, but am not happy with the handling. I'm wondering if there is a fundamental flaw in the balance or setup?

My main concerns are the steering, the feel of the car at speed (vague), and speed with which the back goes!!

I can live with the spins, that's fine, but I'd like to know if it's really possible to get the steering and poise of the car sorted out with modifications? At present everything is standard.

It's the steering which is my main bug bear. The car has power steering, which is disconnected at the moment (which helped a bit).

I'm sure this issue has been discussed at length somewhere on here, so sorry to bring it up again. It seems to be the main problem with the car from my perspective.

Cheers, G

[Brianmoooore]

Welcombe to the zone!
BMW adverises itself as "the ultimate driving machine" and that's not just a slogan. No fundamental flaws in the front suspension - the design has remained the same right up to the current model.
I would suggest that you fully check the front suspension for wear, then set the tracking, which I suspect is out.
Rear suspension works well enough, but requires a driver that can drive. DON'T LIFT OFF.
In these litigious days, BMW has to protect some of it's target customers (big wallet, no sense or driving skills) from themselves by producing cars with "fail safe" suspension so that too many don't kill themselves.
This is the reason that BMW have gone downhill since the E30.
Rear steer may be part of your problem of course. Again get everything checked out, especially the bushes that support the rear suspension beam.

[DanThe]

If you want to improve the steering then fit some eccentric TCA bushes, made mine feel a hell of a lot better

[Morat]

Even stock the E30 is a sweet handling machine, however any original suspension components on your car will be approaching 20 years old by now. Springs, shocks, shock mounts, arb links and bushes should all be checked and if original or tired - replaced.
I recently had the rear suspension top mounts and dampers replaced on my Touring and the difference was vast. The back now sticks where before it would slide. Ok, so I'm not as much a hero as I thought I was - but the car is far nicer to drive.

My previous E30 was a 318 touring which was pretty twitchy on the steering. Some would call it responsive and chuckable but I thought it was verging on unstable - rear subframe bushes were the culprit.

[pnd]

The steering is a flaw with the e30 the e36 rack conversion is the way to sort this although the manual steering rack does feel better. Otherwise the handling on the sports models is very good uprating the anti roll bars does make a big improvemnet though. It may not grip like some modern cars but in terms of being fun to drive and not in a scary way it outperforms many much more expensive modern cars. But bear in mind these cars are old now really they are almost all in need of a full suspension overhaul to perform at their best.

[Cava]

Welcome to the zone from a fellow 318is owner! Just a note from previous experience, the vague front end can also be a sympton of something as unlikely as rear axle bushes - may be worth getting the car checked over by a specialist to see if anything needs to be replaced.

[Brianmoooore]

The steering is a flaw with the e30 the e36 rack conversion .

This isn't a flaw, it's a preference. When BMW designed the E30 they spent hundreds of thousands, maybe millions, of marks deciding how many turns the steering should have lock to lock. The result of this research was that it should be four turns.
BMW could have designed the rack with any nunber of turns they liked, bearing in mind that the original rack was manual.
The current preference for most drivers is less turns lock to lock, and a way to "improve" this on an E30 is to fit an E36 rack.

[Brianmoooore]

It may not grip like some modern cars.

They "grip" as well as any modern car, with the added advantage over most stuff that the front tyres aren't being asked to do two different things at the same time.
Don't confuse lack of maintenance with poor design.

[hammoj28]

Welcome mate, 318 IS is a great motor but im biased.lol

I think mine handles great and i car really throw it into the corners prety hard and it wont loose grip in the dry. Wet....well that another story.lol.

I used to drive a mini too and i think the e30 handles ace.

Could be something wrong as above, i feel my IS will out handle a lot of modern cars, infact i know for a fact.lol

If your really not happy spend some money on getting all the running gear checked out, replacing things, then a good suspension kit and poly bushes.

I find my steering really good, maybe a bit heavier than most pwr steering but i like that. Its really positive and unlike most other cars, you feel more in touch with the road if you know what i mean.

What size wheels has it got? Bad quality big wheels make the steering extremely light and pretty rubbish.

[Morat]

heheh good point, I bet he's got 17" reps with plastic spacers

On a more helpful note: Why don't you take some photos of the suspension bits we've mentioned and bung them up for a "visual check"?

[pnd]

To be pedantic they do not grip as well as 'any' modern car Ive just been driving a a3 quattro and it grips way better; and i am not confusing lack of maintenance with design I made the point that an e30 needs to be properly maintained before its faults or otherwise can be assessed. I have been driving e30's for 12 years and love them that does not mean I am going to say they have no faults or that they are superior to every other motor on the road, they provide great fun practical motoring which still makes them worth driving twenty years on and even given the high maintenance costs involved in keeping a car absolutely A1.

[FBF]

id replace the bushes and maybe get the rack checked out. when mine had te og rims on it it was nice and tight. very good i thought and i have driven hundreds of cars over the years.

[Martinaston]

High maintenance costs ?

I've got a four year old fiesta and the equivalent parts are almost double what the BM costs.

[tomtomiS]

not being funny but u can't compare an a3 quattro with an e30

[Brianmoooore]

not being funny but u can't compare an a3 quattro with an e30

Agreed, the quattro isn't a run of the mill road car.
I drive a normal A3 from time to time (parents' car) and its not a patch on the E30 for driving pleasure. Irritating red lights on the switches for the interior lights which give multiple reflections in the rear view mirror, and scale rust on the rear suspension cross member

[Demlotcrew]

No way does as A3 quatro grip better than a e30

[M5pilot]

Every car has fundamental flaws in it. Especially comparing a car which was designed so many years ago against newer machines.

However, make a list of cars this old, this good looking and this much fun to drive which are better - your list will include cars which are much much more expensive.

The only car that I personally feel is a significant improvement over the E30's is the E34 M5 3.8 - but then it is about 4 times as big and doesnt suit everyones taste.

The E30 is purely and simply a brilliant car. I went through a period where I hated them, but then after owning 12 of the same cars one after the other you cant blame someone for getting a little bored. Enthusiasm is reborn after driving tech1 with good engine.

Sal

[Globulator]

Check your tyres too, if they are cheap death-sliders or economy ditch finders, not inflated to the correct pressures or ballooned out etc then you'll have handling problems.
Personally when my beemer tucks in round a bend it's going round it, on fairly newish Toyo Proxies rubber.
If it skips about and understeers - you'll know it is the shocks.
Give it an MOT - at a good place, they can be good for finding worn bushes.

[CraigG]

as that man said, if your running it on nankang ditchfinders, expect it to handle shit, end of the day, tyres are the only thing in contact with the road, so if they are shit, it dont matter how much cash to plow into everything else on the car, its still gonna handle shit...

[33lop]

I like my e30 tourer. Handling is great. My only gripe is the suspension. My country has a lot of pot holes. Bad roads really. + I'm running on 16s. What can i upgrade on?

[reggiegasket]

Thanks for the comments. I feel very comitted to the car and want to sort it out because it's nearly perfect in many ways for me (apart from needing 40 more horse power ).

I have a set of BBS 15" and 14" wheels; at present it's wearing the 14" ones with 4 new Bridgestone Potenzas (the size is 195/60, which is not exactly standard, but I though it would lower the gearing too, which is always more fun). I put the 14s on mainly to see if the steering would be a bit lighter (the power steering is disconnected and my wife uses the car too). Also the tyres were cheaper. The car feels very good on these wheels and tyres, although I've never had 4 new 15" tyres on the car. I'm not that bothered too much about out and out grip, I like to find the limits and I want better feel and poise really.

Regarding updating the suspension, I'm very keen to go down this route, but don't want to end up finding a fundamental flaw after spending a lot of cash. I guews one way would be to drive a well sorted one to see what the end point feels like - any offers? I need to look at the manual to understand all the bushes (at present I find it very confusing). I used to race motorbikes, so have experienced what decent suspension can do to a bike. If the change was the same on my 318is, I would stump up tomorrow and change everything!

Cheers, G

[doughboy]

It may not grip like some modern cars

Grip has nothing whatsoever to do with the car....

Why don't you fit factory E30 tires to your 2006 TT and see what happens:)

[Globulator]

My main concerns are the steering, the feel of the car at speed (vague), and speed with which the back goes!!

The car feels very good on these wheels and tyres, although I've never had 4 new 15" tyres on the car.

Sorry but you've got me now - you're saying that the car feels bad and that the car feels good??

[reggiegasket]

Yes, sorry, let me clarify. In general terms the car feels good - i.e. when compared to other cars I've driven - and I like it a lot. However, there are a few things I think could be improved - the steering lacks some feel, high speed poise is not great, and confidence on the limits (especially in the wet!) is not great. I think these may be features of the e30 318is in general, not MY car. So when I talk about a fundamental flaw, I'm talking about the e30 318is, not MY 318is. However, it's possible that with some modification, I can get mine feeling better (I hope so). It may be that changing the rack to an E36 rack might sort out the steering for me (I'd have to try it). I guess it's also very possible that various components in the suspension system are worn. I'd like to replace everything, but want to know it's going to work before I stump up the cash.

I love this car, but I don't want to commit big money to a car unless it really handles to my liking. I had an E36 318 which I though handled very well (the balance was excellent), but I much prefer the styling of the e30 and want to keep it. So I need to get it handling better. I guess I'm at the point of marriage - do I commit and look to the long term? Or do I try a different car?

G

[johnono]

but specifically, what are the handling problems, and can you offer an instance its happened, as to aid a diagnosis..

seems pointless saying "e30s are bad" - "no theyԚ´re not"

[Morat]

I'm bored of this thread now, you need to drive someone elses well maintained car then you can make your mind up

[Demlotcrew]

Me too.

[reggiegasket]

Firstly, there's nothing badly wrong with the handling; it's just I've experienced better in some respects.

Steering - it's pretty good, but not as good as a mini or a Rover metro. I just don't get as good a feel for what is going on at the front. Both those cars were small and not power steering though, so maybe I am being unfair?

Poise - above 60mph when the road gets a bit bumpy, the car doesn't feel well planted. This is probably the suspension and should be sorted out by decent shocks. Not many cars are good in this respect anyway. I remember that putting a good race shock on my old CBR600 completely eleminated this feeling. So I'm less worried about this feature.

Balance - I felt a lot more confident at speed on windy A roads in my old E36; it just felt very well balanced. However, the e30 feels more sporty, so I'm not too worried about this either.

So, it's the steering really

I need to get the steering how I like it. The car looks like it should steer well. I guess changing the suspension and lowering the car a little would help this. Also bushes - what bushes? Is it easy to get an E36 rack and fit it?

Cheers, G

[Andy335Touring]

For the steering feel, check the condition of your steering colum bush and replace if needed, replace your front wish bone bushs for some BMW M3 eccentric bushs or poly eccentric bushs.

If you can do the work your self this will be a fairly cheap step in the right direction.

I don't speak from experiance but i'm guessing that the E36/Z3 rack wont necessarily improve the feel just have less travel lock to lock, but i could be wrong ?

[reggiegasket]

Thanks for that. Will have a look.

G