E30 Zone

Ah, winter is back, cold is biting and it is hopefully going to start snowing again. At last, we cannot be blamed for going sideways. For once, circling a freshly powdered roundabout on full lock can hardly be subject to controversy.

I thought it would be interesting to share a bit of knowledge here regarding driving in such circumstances before it really goes all white out there. The more weary can feel a little more confident and people unfamiliar with rear wheel drive can learn about the physics of it all.

Most of the people I know tell me 'you have rear wheel drive! it must be hell driving in snow!' I can only reply 'yo have no idea, care to go for a spin?' Only then do they understand why they have to yank on the hand brake of their mum's Fiesta only to go knocking curbs all over the place...

When it comes to choosing the right winter shoes for your beloved beemer, I do believe that thinner is better. I remember wafting along in the snow on stock tires with my first E30, while all the other recent cars including beemers and mercs were stuck in the middle of the road on their fat rubbers, acting more like skis than anything else.

Think of it this way, a wider tire covers more surface, so supports the weight it is carrying on a larger area, thus avoiding it to 'dig' into the surface.

A thinner tire on the other hand, supports the same weight over a smaller area, making it dig deeper into snow, squashing it down and giving better traction.

Of course, the way you drive (especially with RWD configuration) is essential. The trick is to drive on torque, give it as much as it can take without losing too much grip or revving like an idiot. Keeping revs low in 2nd or even 3rd should keep you going, even sideways, keeping a sensitive right foot to ease off or give it some power as soon as adjustments are required to either keep going sideways or avoid spinning off.

It came naturally for me, I am sure it did for most of you too.

Also, when you are in movement, keeping momentum is very important. If you have to stop, there is a fair chance you'll get stuck, especially when climbing a hill. A trick of mine to get rolling is to steer widely from right to left in a swift manner, clearing snow away from the front tires while starting off in second under 2k rpm. This works with front or rear wheel drive, and is an excellent technique to tackle slopes. You won't be moving fast, but you'll be moving anyway.

Do bear in mind that your trajectory can suddenly be modified by potholes or damaged road surfaces, worse even: ice. In such an event, the only thing you can positively do is try to aim for something that doesn't look too expensive and wait for the thump. With cars who don't have ABS, pumping the brake pedal lightly but quickly is better than locking the wheels, which will only make you pick up speed and hit things harder. You can sometimes make corrections to the slide with brief handbrake bursts to control solely the rear wheels. This has saved me many times from going uncontrollably wrong. I did hit a kerb or two I must admit, but nothing to write home about.

Remember, take it easy and don't be overconfident because once you have lost control, you are definitely going to damage your car, someone else's or knock somebody over if all comes to the worst.

Common sense, wits and good judgement are the key to driving responsibly while having fun and not putting other people's integrity at stake. If you must go drifting in the snow, do it in the evening when all these scaredy cats are sitting snugly in front of the fire place warming their toes, and not during the school run.

Enough from me, now let's hear how you do it!

Snow tyres 195/55/14 on my bbs's and a LSD. Im ready.

195? Chubby coont. I've got 185/70s on mine. They do feel very floaty though...

I do need more practice when the back kicks out - I panic and ease off the throttle when I really ought to be giving it a bit more. But the -20 winters over here have really taught me how to use the 2.5's torque. I don't even bother with first gear between November and April.

This is quite a reassuring read as I have bought my 320i touring especially for winter skids and in the hope that it snows! I think I'll hold off on the welding the diff until winter passes though!

325ix is my solution of choice. Add winter tyres if it gets extreme.

OEM bag of cement in the boot?

bab-91 wrote:OEM bag of cement in the boot?

sack or 3 of spuds !!!

1st time i drove my e30 in the snow, it was a job to get out of my road, and needed a push off as no traction/weight in the back to get going , side ways down the streets until main roads thinking "wtf am i doing this is crazy" ..the arches etc full of snow/ice when i got to work, its no way to be abusing an e30

im glad theres no e30 snow driving for me and mines tucked up in the garage whilst i spit out the snow in a 4x4

Nice one Regiment9ine!

You will notice that with a touring, or any estate in general, the back will slide out a lot easier than a coupé because of the much longer chassis.

Be careful because when it goes, it will go wide. You'll really have to 'throw' the wheel into counter locking when her back goes sideways.

Concerning welding a diff, I would highly recommend you to just bin the idea. It is the worst thing you could do because it will render the car undrivable unless sideways, you can't manoeuvre at all and you are facing the risk that it breaks. When it does it just blows, scattering debris allover the road, and you can call the AA who will probably bring you home but laugh at you.

Unless of course your car is destined to track use and you are on a limited budget.

In fact, a differential is never fully locked, hence the 'limited slip' ones, which are of course useful to optimise the way power output is transferred to the tarmac by giving to both your driven wheels a reasonable amount of power.

If you don't have an LSD, the inner wheel will lose traction during a sharp bend because the weight of the car is being shifted outwards by centrifugal force. As the car rolls outwards there is less pressure pushing the inner wheel down, and more so on the outer wheel, giving this one some extra grip. Since the diff is open it is understandably easier for the engine to transfer its power to a wheel with less grip, so the inner ones spins.

You would then need to clutch in and give the hand brake a blast to encourage the tail out, wile doing this revving the engine up and then release the clutch to do some brutal sliding, but it is harsh on all drive train components, be it engine, gearbox, diff, wheel bearings, rubbers bushes and so on. I wouldn't recommend you do so unless you know your car well and plan on taking good care of it on a long term basis.

If you lock a diff fully to 100%, your inner wheel is obliged to spin at the same speed as the outer in a sharp bend (think of a hairpin turn), and it definitely can't do that without ripping and starting to skid, just to maintain the same rotation speed.

There are quite a few posts about diffs, especially in the wiki section. It is truly fascinating, I suggest you take a look right away!

The touring is still laid up resting, so Transit it'll be again this winter.

My preparations extended to buying a set of snow chains today from lidl for £20

lidl £20 snow chains, got disaster written all over it

do they have different sizes ?

polsta wrote:

bab-91 wrote:OEM bag of cement in the boot?

sack or 3 of spuds !!!

1st time i drove my e30 in the snow, it was a job to get out of my road, and needed a push off as no traction/weight in the back to get going , side ways down the streets until main roads thinking "wtf am i doing this is crazy" ..the arches etc full of snow/ice when i got to work, its no way to be abusing an e30

im glad theres no e30 snow driving for me and mines tucked up in the garage whilst i spit out the snow in a 4x4

Heaven forbid, if everyone put 3 sack of spuds in there boot there would be a famine!

Yeaaa lol, I'll not be driving the '30 in the snow... although snow socks are some job!

i have no idea how much weight is needed, but f**k cement its a bit powdery messy...and a split would be disaster

Leave it in the garage, if a spotty teenager slides a golf into the e30 we will be hearing about it on the news!

polsta wrote:lidl £20 snow chains, got disaster written all over it

do they have different sizes ?

They seem to be pretty good quality to be fair,we'll see I guess,and yes, all sizes were available in my local one.

Grrrmachine wrote:195? Chubby coont. I've got 185/70s on mine.

I've got 175/70s on my touring!!!!

LSD & coilys and almost 100kg of weight in the boot, (big sub & amp!!!) - was a huge amount of fun last year!!!

This year I'm hoping to get my heater blower working so I can stay warm and see out of the windows.
Heated mirrors being fitted too so I can see what I've passed!!!
Might even get around to fitting the heated front screen I've had in my lock-up for a few years!!!

driving on snow depends on what type of roads you're on. on residential streets just be really sensible, minimise wheelspin as much as you can by having a sensitive right foot, do everything slowly and smoothly.
where i live we are blessed with some lovely lanes that are deserted and in the middle of nowhere. when it snows these are ideal for practicing car control at very low speeds, you can have the car on the lockstops at 10mph
if you should find yourself on one of these lanes and you are positive that you are not going to come across another road user, or disturb anyone, or damage anyone's property, then these tips may come in handy:

momentum is king - you need as much speed as possible to climb even slight inclines if it's icy, so don't be afraid of giving it a bootfull. conversely, if the road goes downhill scrub off as much speed as you can, as early as you can.
kill understeer by shift-locking the rear wheels - i find it extremely effective at getting the car to turn into a corner.
use the banks - the lanes round near me tend to have large banks an hedges either side. once they are coated with snow they are very forgiving and you can get away with everything from a nudge to a wallop!
be prepared - shovels, grit, tow rope, torches, warm clothing and a mate with a landy to follow you round are all vital.

i've found the best car for the snow was my E34 518i with an lpg tank in the boot, it could go anywhere!
just remember to be safe and have fun.



(i do have some in-car vids, but i'm not going to post them as this is the E30zone and someone will definately go tits over it.)

Ecxellent write up Alan 1272

I definitely adhere to the gentleman driver style, it is definitely the one and only way to go for the real enthusiast...

What do you mean by shift-locking the wheels?

downshifting without heel and toe to send a "shock" through the drive-train, momentarily causing the rear wheels to lock.
i use the same technique in my m42 touring since mt handbrake isnt working at the moment

welded 4.27 diff makes winter driving "interesting" but dont drive like a c0ck and its fine.
extra lock spacers in the rack come in handy for when the back tries to overtake the front

Grrrmachine wrote:What do you mean by shift-locking the wheels?

as age said above, but on snow/ice it's not a violent action. changing down from 3rd to 2nd at about 20mph without braking and off the throttle is normally more than enough to do it; the rear wheels will be spinning slower than the road speed of the car and will give a similar effect to pulling the handbrake, but it is more controlable as it can be adjusted with the throttle. once the back end is out just steer with small throttle inputs.

CarbTuner wrote: You will notice that with a touring, or any estate in general, the back will slide out a lot easier than a coupé because of the much longer chassis.

Touring chassis has exactly the same dimensions as that of any other E30.

Brianmoooore wrote:

CarbTuner wrote: You will notice that with a touring, or any estate in general, the back will slide out a lot easier than a coupé because of the much longer chassis.

Touring chassis has exactly the same dimensions as that of any other E30.

I was about to jump on that too!

More weight over the rear does help, so the touring is ideally suited. A full tank of fuel is an easy and safe way to add weight where you need it, without filling the boot with projectiles.

Oh and if you get stuck, drop the tyre pressures down, you'd be amazed how much more grip a summer tyre will give you in the snow at 10-15 psi. Once unstuck, get the pressures back up pronto. That said, i do tend to run 20-25 psi in the snow in most cars but i'm only going around town at relatively low speeds.

gareth wrote:

Brianmoooore wrote:

CarbTuner wrote: You will notice that with a touring, or any estate in general, the back will slide out a lot easier than a coupé because of the much longer chassis.

Touring chassis has exactly the same dimensions as that of any other E30.

I was about to jump on that too!

My bad. Is the proper term 'over hang'? I can't remember. Cantilever maybe?
Anyway, an estate does carry more weight around the back because it isn't a coupé, generally speaking, am I right?
I was sure the chassis was longer, but it is an optical effect then I suppose. Surely the platform is the same, but aren't there any structural modifications other than four doors and a bigger boot?
Thanks for the enlightment!

Bumpers are exactly the same distance from each other, and all four wheels are in exactly the same place.
E30 saloons come in two door and four door versions - no coupe.
Boot is considerably smaller on a touring than on a saloon. 370 litres to 425 litres.
Only structural mod. is the removal of the saloon's rear bulkhead and some framing to replace it, plus the obvious bodywork.

age wrote:downshifting without heel and toe to send a "shock" through the drive-train, momentarily causing the rear wheels to lock.

Oh right - that's what I'm doing already then

I think I need to visit a Tesco car park one snowy evening...

My e30 was one of the best cars I've ever driven in snow.

Tool kit (30kg ish) in the boot and away you go. Even on 225 45 summer tyres, which are still quite narrow by today's standards, and likewise an e30 is relatively light.

Gentle understeer on entry so you know how much grip you have, easily tamed with a gentle squeeze of the throttle.

They even have brilliant heaters so you're still nice and snug inside whilst having your fun.

Sadly, as values have risen so much I don't fancy exposing it to that nasty salt, nor risk binning it in a ditch

flat,flat,flat

I was a simple-minded young man back in 1990 when me and my old pa went down to Sandal BMW in Wakefield, West Yorks one fine none-snowy day to purchase our now 27yr old 320i.

After much discussion I piped-up " its rear-wheel drive, whats it like in snow", salesmans reply " couple of bags of sand over the rear axle will help. Working on a farm part-time I responded " can I use spuds .. "yes, course you can, its all weight, but try shoveling f### spuds under the wheels for traction when the weight doesnt work".

Nuff said...

pud1 wrote:I was a simple-minded young man back in 1990 when me and my old pa went down to Sandal BMW in Wakefield, West Yorks one fine none-snowy day to purchase our now 27yr old 320i.

After much discussion I piped-up " its rear-wheel drive, whats it like in snow", salesmans reply " couple of bags of sand over the rear axle will help. Working on a farm part-time I responded " can I use spuds .. "yes, course you can, its all weight, but try shoveling f### spuds under the wheels for traction when the weight doesnt work".

Nuff said...

Will be my first winter in the 316, not looking forward to it! specially as i live out in the country so roads take a while to clear..

they go fine in the snow - just be aware that applying the brakes in an emergency is almost useless - just try and turn around the obstacle

Or if you're driving a FWD Audi A3, give up all hope and let the car do as it pleases, it'll do this anyway.
Ask my son who grassed me up to mummy when I spun it in the snow on the way to playgroup!

How does the advice here differ for those of us not blessed with an LSD? Last year I parked the e30 up and didn't use it at all through the snow. I live at the highest point of Sheffield, so getting anywhere involves going up or down bloody steep hills!