E30 Zone

NOW!

i missed most of that

did they say the m3 was shit? i just heard them saying it wasn't much faster than a transit van and it was behind a mitsubishi colt....

excuses please!

That seemed slow and the m3 lost

yeah i really find that all hard to believe, the m3 was about a second behind the lancia but the point was that they both slot in 27/29th or something in Tiff's list of cars around that track, being beaten by a Mitsubishi Colt. The transit was last, about 40th or something. I am sure that the m3 in such good condition would have more than 160bhp, much nearer 190 surely!! I really dont see how a 190bhp m3 can be beaten by a 150bhp FWD Colt!!!:mad:

it's all fixed buddy, don't believe a word of it

lol my spies tell me that the m3 was only 0.3 second faster than a ford ka? is this true??

yeah im afraid so..........

lol! my spy has just told me that the ford ka used was a mere 90bhp

dang the m3 got bent over and shafted like a whore in amsterdam!

The Lancia looked so messy going around that track, i thought the M3 looked good

yeah to be fair m3's look good, who'd ever have taken an e30 m3 for a car with looks but no balls though tis a pity cos it's a great looking car!

Right guys, whats going on..........i didnt see it.

Has the M3 been shafted.

wtf - think something is amiss here.. 190bhp m3 barely quicker than a Kak?!

5th Gear have been known to fix stuff before - M5 vs. F1

Jhonno wrote:wtf - think something is amiss here.. 190bhp m3 barely quicker than a Kak?!

5th Gear have been known to fix stuff before - M5 vs. F1

it *is* strange the m3 was so slow...maybe it just isn't as much of a driver's car as the others?

were 5th gear caught out and proven to have fixed something? i don't watch it so don't really concentrate if people talk about it...

it lost guys ...face up to it like the man said its 20 years old, modern smaller cars are faster, thats progress what would be the point in fixing it?

yeah tbh life would really suck if 20-yr-old technology was the best the world had to offer...progress is pretty inevitable (and good may i add!)

hehe this cracked me up (from my anonymous spy):

"i bet the puma must anhilate the m3 on that same track lol"

were the cars tested standard without modes at all??

Moofles wrote:

Jhonno wrote:wtf - think something is amiss here.. 190bhp m3 barely quicker than a Kak?!

5th Gear have been known to fix stuff before - M5 vs. F1

it *is* strange the m3 was so slow...maybe it just isn't as much of a driver's car as the others?

were 5th gear caught out and proven to have fixed something? i don't watch it so don't really concentrate if people talk about it...

they were - the f1 vs. m5 race where the f1 car appears to do 3 laps quicker than the m5 did 2... i was there and the m5 did 2 quicker, so they did a retake and fixed the result

20yr old technology or not 190 bhp vs. 80bhp.. the m3 isnt that outdated in terms of suspension setup imo..

oh right i didn't know that, so the m5 had done 2 laps, how many had the f1 car done? are we saying it never lapped the m5?

yeah 190hp vs 90hp it should have done better, i know what you're saying about the suspension but i thought the semi-trailing arm set up was actually *pretty* outdated...?

Jhonno wrote:

Moofles wrote:

Jhonno wrote:wtf - think something is amiss here.. 190bhp m3 barely quicker than a Kak?!

5th Gear have been known to fix stuff before - M5 vs. F1

it *is* strange the m3 was so slow...maybe it just isn't as much of a driver's car as the others?

were 5th gear caught out and proven to have fixed something? i don't watch it so don't really concentrate if people talk about it...

they were - the f1 vs. m5 race where the f1 car appears to do 3 laps quicker than the m5 did 2... i was there and the m5 did 2 quicker, so they did a retake and fixed the result

20yr old technology or not 190 bhp vs. 80bhp.. the m3 isnt that outdated in terms of suspension setup imo..

190bhp vs. 80bhp?

If you're talking about the SportKa it's 96bhp IIRC.

And considering:
a) the Ford's engine would actually produce that figure due to being new and the E30's engine had done 170,000 miles so wouldn't be producing anywhere near 190bhp, and
b) The Ford is a coupla hundred kilos lighter,

it's not all that surprising really.

Moofles wrote:oh right i didn't know that, so the m5 had done 2 laps, how many had the f1 car done? are we saying it never lapped the m5?

yeah 190hp vs 90hp it should have done better, i know what you're saying about the suspension but i thought the semi-trailing arm set up was actually *pretty* outdated...?

no it never lapped the m5

front suspension is similar to the ford focus with the anti rollbar arrangement etc

ok the rear is not so modern, but it could be alot worse imo

Zayyan wrote:

Jhonno wrote:

Moofles wrote: it *is* strange the m3 was so slow...maybe it just isn't as much of a driver's car as the others?

were 5th gear caught out and proven to have fixed something? i don't watch it so don't really concentrate if people talk about it...

they were - the f1 vs. m5 race where the f1 car appears to do 3 laps quicker than the m5 did 2... i was there and the m5 did 2 quicker, so they did a retake and fixed the result

20yr old technology or not 190 bhp vs. 80bhp.. the m3 isnt that outdated in terms of suspension setup imo..

190bhp vs. 80bhp?

If you're talking about the SportKa it's 96bhp IIRC.

And considering:
a) the Ford's engine would actually produce that figure due to being new and the E30's engine had done 170,000 miles so wouldn't be producing anywhere near 190bhp, and
b) The Ford is a coupla hundred kilos lighter,

it's not all that surprising really.

sportka is no lightweight, it weighs near 1100kgs!! even with high miles its still gonna be making 160bhp or so..

ah that's interesting, as i actually did see a bit of that race and it looked like it did, that's pretty sneaky...still, i don't know why they would fix this particular test, there were 40 cars right?

yeah i meant the rear suspension, i heard it really affects it on track, but i'm not sure - people don't talk about it!

zayyan, are you saying the m3 is better or the sportka is better lol? i could read this as "m3 is better but tiff was shit" or "sportka is just better, admit it - it's progress"

small side note...i thought aaron kept his m3 in quite good nick...surely would be putting out close to its factory 195hp, 160hp is a bit low considering 325i's put out 160hp odd on 100k-200 engines when they get rolling-roaded and haven't been rebuilt...

shit meant 180bhp as a conservative guess also..

never noticed my rear suspension letting the car down.. altho not been on track yet.. it is independant etc

they would fix it to prove that new cars were great etc imo

Jhonno wrote:never noticed my rear suspension letting the car down.. altho not been on track yet.. it is independant etc

I think it was because if you change the angle of the arm along one-axis it changes it along other axis (i.e. not fully independent) - means that it can't be set up perfectly because you want to tune the suspension so it does "x" when cornering at some or other particular speed/angle/whatever, but instead it does "x and y" (adjustment of one affects the other). But like i said no-one talks about it, it's a feared subject lol

Anglesey is quite a small and short circuit, so times are not going to be huge distances apart i.e fastest car westfield managed 48 seconds, Seat Leon 56 seconds, E30 M3 almost 57 seconds, and a mercedes van 67 seconds.
Also, I suppose you have to take into account that the new cars that were tested were probably from manufacturers direct, where as the E30 and the Lancia were owned by enthusiasts, and Aaron said himself that he was easy on the car.

Also, I read this on another forum, it's the following these cars have that is the bonus, I mean, can you see Top gear doing a shootout on a sport ka and a shitroen C2 in 10-15 years time?

It's still dissapointing though, I suppose expectations were a lot higher.

The M3 looked much more stable, and under control than the Lancia though didn't it!

Jhonno wrote:they would fix it to prove that new cars were great etc imo

i don't think that's too far-fetched actually, i'm not sure car companies would like the idea of them promoting cars which the companies no longer sell would go down too well lol....

but it does bring up an interesting point why make the (new!) m5 lose by more to the F1 car? the m5 is the one that's gonna sell, being able to sell it as "couldn't even be lapped by an f1 car" would be pretty good i'd have thought?

Because an F1 car is going to be considerably faster than any road car this side of a veyron, thats why.....

Moofles wrote:

Jhonno wrote:they would fix it to prove that new cars were great etc imo

i don't think that's too far-fetched actually, i'm not sure car companies would like the idea of them promoting cars which the companies no longer sell would go down too well lol....

but it does bring up an interesting point why make the (new!) m5 lose by more to the F1 car? the m5 is the one that's gonna sell, being able to sell it as "couldn't even be lapped by an f1 car" would be pretty good i'd have thought?

i have no idea with this one.. its weird, i cant have seen bmw agreeing to it bein fixed to lose, but it definately was fixed!

OllieB wrote:Because an F1 car is going to be considerably faster than any road car this side of a veyron, thats why.....

but the point was that they might fix it to make new cars appear better, and i can only think that is because they are sold by companies who might have influence...hence an m5 would want to appear better than expectations, or what's the point of fixing...

i'm a bit confused, are you on the side that thinks 5th gear might have fixed it or on the side that thinks they didn't?

Heres a link to the guy who owns the M3(Aaran) quite a interesting read.

http://www.bmwcarclubforum.co.uk/forum_ ... 25044&PN=1

clackmac325 wrote:Heres a link to the guy who owns the M3(Aaran) quite a interesting read.

http://www.bmwcarclubforum.co.uk/forum_ ... 25044&PN=1

He's also a member here..

http://www.e30zone.co.uk/modules.php?na ... ic&t=15843

this is why top gear is better, the stig is a pro driver bet he would show you what an m3 can do


m5 vs f1 that was a laugh, you would think the m5 was on a gravel track the way VBH was sliding about the place.

interesting that a 325i gets round 2 secs quicker than those time.. says alot i think..

plus the fact that the new cars were blowing up

Dont forget the M3 is prob the cheapest car they have tested, and they used an early one, a later spec 215 or evo sport would have been a lot quicker.