E30 Zone

My car is a poverty spec 318i and I'm currently tarting up a rear disc conversion, vented front brakes and 51mm struts to be fitted to it.
Whilst I'm not adverse to declaring the mods, I wondered that as some of the mods were options if ABS was specified from the factory, do i need to?

Big grey area here, strictly yes, however few would and even fewer would notice in the first place.

There is always the worry that you are involved in a write off or worse, a fatality incident, then the car being inspected with a fine toothed comb.
I guess if I think that way in the first place I've pretty much answered my own question...

things such as engines must be declared obv! as above though if its wilwoods and something serious it woudn't really get clocked, as its just standard bmw calipers, most wont know the difference, i got pulled in a check zone with a 40mil lowering kit on its the only mod on the car, they looked over the car properly, checked everything and said all good!

I expect a lot of the non standard cars on here would void the policy for non declared mods. Car stickers can be classed as a non standard mod and in theory be enough for the insurance company to refuse a payout.
Even interior mods can cause issue with theft claims etc, as it could be argued the mods made the car more desirable to theives etc etc

As above though, although it is a modification and should be declared, its standard BMW brakes available on any other E30, so personally I wouldn't bother to declare.
I also wouldn't start my days worrying about being in an accident, that's kind of defeatist from the beginning.

jmc330i wrote: I also wouldn't start my days worrying about being in an accident, that's kind of defeatist from the beginning.

We all think about the possibilty of having an accident, putting on a seatbelt, NCAP rating, insurance, etc. It's not something that only happens to others. Thinking or not thinking about it doesn't influence somebody walking right in front of your car, or some twat on a Borris bike who has never ridden in London, let alone around Hyde Park Corner doing something stupid... it just happens!

I just want to weigh up where I stand come the worst possible scenario.

strictly, anything that improves handling / performance should be declared in that category, even something that increases braking performance..

such that, if you slam on, and you stop like an F1 car, it's an unfair advantage to the guy who whumps you from behind.. Not that this will ever be seen as a problem. Similarly, if you drive in such a way that causes other drivers to alter their velocity, course or anything of that nature is deemed as careless.. In this right, if you stop much quicker than they expect, in a round about way it's careless - the law is an ass, insurance companies are the flies that land on that ass looking for a free lunch

very few would bother .

magpie wrote:very few would bother .

indeed..

Barx325i wrote:

magpie wrote:very few would bother .

indeed..

Would you?

only if its after market wheels i.e BBS dont count as they were an option anything thats BMW is not classed as mods just option extra. was as i bought it lol!!!! but enigne upgarde is aYES!!!

as rich says, not all insurance companies know the difference. I had some eejut thinking my an iS was a standard 318i. In truth if you tell them what you've added, it won't affect your premium anyway. Just don't weld your diff

The plan is to M50 it once I've sorted the handling and braking, will just need to swap the spring for 6 pot items when I'm ready. I'm guessing they'll want to hear me say that the brakes aren't poverty spec at that point anyway.... Or by the sounds of it they wouldn't know what fit it did come with out of the factory.

suedenim wrote:

Barx325i wrote:

magpie wrote:very few would bother .

indeed..

Would you?

no.

suedenim wrote: We all think about the possibilty of having an accident, putting on a seatbelt, NCAP rating, insurance, etc. It's not something that only happens to others. Thinking or not thinking about it doesn't influence somebody walking right in front of your car, or some **** on a Borris bike who has never ridden in London, let alone around Hyde Park Corner doing something stupid... it just happens!

I just want to weigh up where I stand come the worst possible scenario.

Weighing up worse case is fair enough, chances are a rear disc conversion on an E30 won't even be noticed. It's not like you're fitting 300mm+ discs with 4 pots and custom caliper mounts...

My point about thinking about the possibility of having an accident, was that if you always thought like that, you wouldn't get out of bed in the morning, let alone drive an E30 if you think about ncap ratings!
I think I misunderstood your point in any case - reading it back now, I think it was more a case of worrying about the car being inspected rather than actually having an accident.

suedenim wrote:The plan is to M50 it once I've sorted the handling and braking, will just need to swap the spring for 6 pot items when I'm ready. I'm guessing they'll want to hear me say that the brakes aren't poverty spec at that point anyway....

Don't bet on it. When I first fitted the S50 to mine, it was still running standard 260mm brakes, the insurance company didn't ask what other mods had been done to cope with near 300bhp!
They only cared about the brakes 2 months later, when I told them I had upgraded them to cope with the extra power/weight - and then they charged me more money.

suedenim wrote:The plan is to M50 it once I've sorted the handling and braking, will just need to swap the spring for 6 pot items when I'm ready. I'm guessing they'll want to hear me say that the brakes aren't poverty spec at that point anyway.... Or by the sounds of it they wouldn't know what fit it did come with out of the factory.

Thats when what we consider standard spec for a touring/325 suddenly becomes uprated 325/mtech spec added to the 318 to cope with the power increase.

HairyScreech wrote:

suedenim wrote:The plan is to M50 it once I've sorted the handling and braking, will just need to swap the spring for 6 pot items when I'm ready. I'm guessing they'll want to hear me say that the brakes aren't poverty spec at that point anyway.... Or by the sounds of it they wouldn't know what fit it did come with out of the factory.

Thats when what we consider standard spec for a touring/325 suddenly becomes uprated 325/mtech spec added to the 318 to cope with the power increase.

I wouldn't want to do the conversion and then not to be able to drive the feckin thing! Just got to get the last few bits - M3 lollypops, E46 cab rear topmounts, new oem bushes allround. Don't know how much benefit I'll get from trailing arm camber adjusters for a 35mm drop?

If you have a fault accident and your car is inspected they will know your brakes have been uprated, end of.

In the day and age of 'the blame game', only a total moron wouldn't declare everything to the insurance company

Duke137 wrote:In the day and age of 'the blame game', only a total moron wouldn't declare everything to the insurance company

On the other hand, you can't be expected to acquire the original build sheet, and go right through the car to check that everything is to original spec.
Most E30s are on something like their tenth owner, and you are not to know what factory options been fitted retrospectively before you bought the car.

suedenim wrote:My car is a poverty spec 318i and I'm currently tarting up a rear disc conversion, vented front brakes and 51mm struts to be fitted to it.
Whilst I'm not adverse to declaring the mods, I wondered that as some of the mods were options if ABS was specified from the factory, do i need to?

Declare all mod's and it usually isn't that expensive. It was £23 quid to declare my coilovers.

Just keep yourself right. Don't give the insurance company a reason not to honour your cover in the event of an accident.

On the other hand , I can fully understand why an insurer would consider the original untouched car a lesser risk than the 'modified' turd that has had lots of bits changed in pursuit of 'better' handling/ stopping.

Brianmoooore wrote:

Duke137 wrote:In the day and age of 'the blame game', only a total moron wouldn't declare everything to the insurance company

On the other hand, you can't be expected to acquire the original build sheet, and go right through the car to check that everything is to original spec.
Most E30s are on something like their tenth owner, and you are not to know what factory options been fitted retrospectively before you bought the car.

#
indeed .

pacerpete wrote:On the other hand , I can fully understand why an insurer would consider the original untouched car a lesser risk than the 'modified' turd that has had lots of bits changed in pursuit of 'better' handling/ stopping.

So can I, it's the money they charge for the mods I have trouble with.

Brianmoooore wrote:

Duke137 wrote:In the day and age of 'the blame game', only a total moron wouldn't declare everything to the insurance company

On the other hand, you can't be expected to acquire the original build sheet, and go right through the car to check that everything is to original spec.
Most E30s are on something like their tenth owner, and you are not to know what factory options been fitted retrospectively before you bought the car.

Hmmm true. But you can guarantee that an insurance company wouldn't care who/when/where if push came to shove.

@nick, whilst they accept you're less likely to leave the road with handling/braking improvements etc. It all goes back into their 'deep thought' risk evaluation super computer.

a) why you're modifying it in the first place and they summise that you'll going to be driving it harder..

b) on the other hand you're adding valuable bits to your car, so you're less likely to want to ditch it.

c) the hike in premium is calculated to covering the cost of replacing said mods

declare the mods & then discuss an agreed value so they won't just pay you for the car if your coilovers & other pricey bits are bent.

The thing that got me was adding a cage back in the day virtually doubled premiums, but ffs, you're protecting yourself against having to be cut out of a burning wreck - but it does mean you can go a bit crazy..

Maybe they think you'll do more damage to other cars with a cage added.

It is a safe assumption to make that most who modify their car mechanically are going to use it harder = greater risk = higher premium


It is also a safe assumption to make that many people who modify their cars mechanically are beasts who consider a pair of vise grips a precision instrument. How many people when fitting disc brake trailing arms change the master cylinder or even understand why it should be changed ?
This = greater risk = higher premiums

pacerpete wrote:It is a safe assumption to make that most who modify their car mechanically are going to use it harder = greater risk = higher premium


It is also a safe assumption to make that many people who modify their cars mechanically are beasts who consider a pair of vise grips a precision instrument. How many people when fitting disc brake trailing arms change the master cylinder or even understand why it should be changed ?
This = greater risk = higher premiums

Nicely put

pacerpete wrote:How many people when fitting disc brake trailing arms change the master cylinder or even understand why it should be changed ?
This = greater risk = higher premiums

I take it there is a diference between the MC for the two brake types, something I haven't picked up on.
I want to do this right first time so would appreciate a little guidance on this.

Whenever I have insured a modified car (always with Flux - don't like them anymore though), only the engine mods have increased the premium. The guy asked what else had been done after he'd given me an estimate quote - the price did not change with the addition of kit, suspension, brakes, LSD diff, interior trinkets etc.

I guess it's different if you have an agreed value cover including the bits? If you mashed the kit, bent some tidy suspension, gave your lsd input bearing a shunt & bled all over your lotus white leathers in the process, I guess they wouldn't cover those bits?

Barx325i wrote:I guess it's different if you have an agreed value cover including the bits? If you mashed the kit, bent some tidy suspension, gave your lsd input bearing a shunt & bled all over your lotus white leathers in the process, I guess they wouldn't cover those bits?

No that was the strange thing - all declared parts were insured on a like-for-like basis. Which I took to mean they'd be trawling ebay.de for complete Hartge kit!

well there you go.. I find it hard to imagine they'd be insuring almost double the cars value in trinkets for the same price. I always found flux to be expensive so haven't had any experience with claim woes.. Sounds like the place to go though

Barx325i wrote:well there you go.. I find it hard to imagine they'd be insuring almost double the cars value in trinkets for the same price. I always found flux to be expensive so haven't had any experience with claim woes.. Sounds like the place to go though

It's all moot in my experience. Everybody has a recommended specialist insurer - Flux, C Nash, RH Classic etc, etc but in reality they are just brokers and the premiums are decided by a very small number of institutions all re-insured against losses. The whole industry is bent and when the big boys actually got their sums wrong, the taxpayer bailed them out.

Basically, declare your rear disc conversion OP, then prepare for a reaming once the M50/2 goes in.

Master cylinders are the same regardless of brakes