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4 Stud to 5 Stud conversion
Posted: Sun Jan 29, 2012 11:02 pm
by Gurmz
Hi all,
Im thinking of doing a 5 sud conversion to my E30.
From what i know i need E36 M3 EVO front set up (hubs, break, calipers, struts and wishbones) and the 318 TI trailing arm.
I just wanted to know if anyone has done this? or if anyone has any information on this topic?
Thanks in advance.
G
Re: 4 Stud to 5 Stud conversion
Posted: Sun Jan 29, 2012 11:46 pm
by ImysE30
Re: 4 Stud to 5 Stud conversion
Posted: Mon Jan 30, 2012 1:04 am
by Rav335uk
I have a complete rear setup here if you need one.
Re: 4 Stud to 5 Stud conversion
Posted: Mon Jan 30, 2012 1:33 pm
by Gurmz
get help, thanks.
however, after reading up on this i found that not a lot of people are happy with it.
just wanted to know if anyone has done it and how it has effected the car?
Thanks again
Re: 4 Stud to 5 Stud conversion
Posted: Mon Jan 30, 2012 2:26 pm
by Phill172
I did E36 M3 Evo fronts and e36 ti rears
What suspension are you planning on using? Whats the purpose of the change? Wheel fitment/brakes/suspension??
Very happy with my set up the car feels great and with the e36 m3 brakes its fantastic
I found the ti driveshafts are slightly smaller (I think), the ones i had were like toffee and snapped very quickly. So swap them out for your e30 ones
Re: 4 Stud to 5 Stud conversion
Posted: Tue Jan 31, 2012 12:53 am
by Gurmz
great, thanks for the info.
i have not decided what suspension to go for, what have you used?
i want to do the swap for wheel fitment and breaks.
Re: 4 Stud to 5 Stud conversion
Posted: Tue Jan 31, 2012 10:55 am
by Jozi
What is peoples opinion on using a slieve on the e30 stub so a e36 hub and bearing fit?
Re: 4 Stud to 5 Stud conversion
Posted: Tue Jan 31, 2012 10:57 am
by Jhonno
No way imo..
Also, try finding brakes to fit after...
Re: 4 Stud to 5 Stud conversion
Posted: Tue Jan 31, 2012 10:58 am
by Jozi
Any particular reason, besides brakes? Only asking because I've seen it done on another forum.
Re: 4 Stud to 5 Stud conversion
Posted: Tue Jan 31, 2012 11:05 am
by Jhonno
Sounds like a driftcock solution.. People on other forums have heated and bent control arms to offer the extra castor also. Sound safe?
Relying on a machined interference fit part, that might wear/loosen. Not a chance imo. I am sure it *could* be ok, as much as it could go very wrong.
Re: 4 Stud to 5 Stud conversion
Posted: Tue Jan 31, 2012 11:13 am
by harry_p
doesnt it leave very few threads for the hub nut to tighten onto as the e36 bearing is thicker, with no way to strake the nut into place
Re: 4 Stud to 5 Stud conversion
Posted: Tue Jan 31, 2012 11:13 am
by Jozi
Appreciate your response, I'm no expert on this or do I have any experience. Above is what someone made up, does the locking nut not keep all in check?
I don't think I'd be to keen on bending the arms either! I'm happy enough with the 4stud setup, have nice wheels and Keri offers a nice braking solution and so no real reason to try it.
Re: 4 Stud to 5 Stud conversion
Posted: Tue Jan 31, 2012 11:26 am
by Jos
Turbo-Brown was the one that suggested it, I actually think it's quite a neat solution. Brakes are an issue but either caliper brackets or there are bound to be 5x120 brakes at 260mm (ish) off something that will fit?
http://e30tech.com/forum/showthread.php?t=48607
The other thought I had although I haven't dismantled one yet would be to find a bearing with e30 ID and e36 hub OD? Will probably be more expensive that the Evo arms though?
Re: 4 Stud to 5 Stud conversion
Posted: Tue Jan 31, 2012 11:28 am
by Jhonno
Jos wrote:Turbo-Brown was the one that suggested it, I actually think it's quite a neat solution. Brakes are an issue but either caliper brackets or there are bound to be 5x120 brakes at 260mm (ish) off something that will fit?
http://e30tech.com/forum/showthread.php?t=48607
The other thought I had although I haven't dismantled one yet would be to find a bearing with e30 ID and e36 hub OD? Will probably be more expensive that the Evo arms though?
Turbo-Brown also abandoned it, as he wasn't happy with it as a solution..
Re: 4 Stud to 5 Stud conversion
Posted: Tue Jan 31, 2012 11:29 am
by Jhonno
harry_p wrote:doesnt it leave very few threads for the hub nut to tighten onto as the e36 bearing is thicker, with no way to strake the nut into place
Something like this yes!
Driftcock + Darwin theory FTW
Re: 4 Stud to 5 Stud conversion
Posted: Tue Jan 31, 2012 11:40 am
by Phill172
Its so easy and cheap to convert to five stud with the 36 evo bits so dont see why you would want to fanny about with a solution that 'might' not work
Re: 4 Stud to 5 Stud conversion
Posted: Tue Jan 31, 2012 11:42 am
by Jos
So what about a different bearing or are they not removable? Still leaves caliper and rotor issues regardless..
Re: 4 Stud to 5 Stud conversion
Posted: Tue Jan 31, 2012 11:49 am
by Jozi
Jos wrote:Turbo-Brown was the one that suggested it, I actually think it's quite a neat solution. Brakes are an issue but either caliper brackets or there are bound to be 5x120 brakes at 260mm (ish) off something that will fit?
Didn't know about him looking into it, this was on a Dutch forum, same idea I gather.
As far as I know using Evo bits your left with your geometry being way out.
Re: 4 Stud to 5 Stud conversion
Posted: Tue Jan 31, 2012 11:51 am
by Jhonno
Jozi wrote:Jos wrote:Turbo-Brown was the one that suggested it, I actually think it's quite a neat solution. Brakes are an issue but either caliper brackets or there are bound to be 5x120 brakes at 260mm (ish) off something that will fit?
Didn't know about him looking into it, this was on a Dutch forum, same idea I gather.
As far as I know using Evo bits your left with your geometry being way out.
No.. The Evo bits are to bring your geo back into where it should be!
Re: 4 Stud to 5 Stud conversion
Posted: Tue Jan 31, 2012 11:57 am
by Jozi
Oh right, I thought you couldnt get it all spot on regardless of what you used. I'll stick to not giving advice on the subject
Re: 4 Stud to 5 Stud conversion
Posted: Tue Jan 31, 2012 12:56 pm
by e21Jason
I have done using both evo and stock e36 fronts, with evo stuff you can get the geomery the same as stock, with stock e36 hubs and adjustable top mounts you can get the camber and wheel position right but run a few deg's extra castor which is okay for a trackcar bit much on the road.
Jason
Re: 4 Stud to 5 Stud conversion
Posted: Tue Jan 31, 2012 10:25 pm
by HairyScreech
I have also been suggesting for a while that a bearing may exist for the e36 hub that will fit the internal of the e30.
I asked a while back for the diameter of the e36 hub internal but noone on here knew and i didnt have one to hand to work on.
If someone can provide the two diameters and the depth of bearing required then i would be happy to put in some of the leg work.
A sleeve could work but would require proper engineering and would have to use a larger nut that would hold both the bearing and the sleeve correctly.
It can be done but would need to be done right.
Re: 4 Stud to 5 Stud conversion
Posted: Thu Feb 23, 2012 4:31 pm
by anothere21323i
This might be a daft question, but surely the use of E36 M3 Evo front brakes with the Ti rear arms would create a braking force imbalance? Why not use the M3's rear brakes too? Also does the use of the Evo hubs mean that you have to fit 17 inch wheels?
Re: 4 Stud to 5 Stud conversion
Posted: Thu Feb 23, 2012 5:00 pm
by Jhonno
The rear brakes don't fit is why.. The arse of an E30 is light anyway, so it actually works ok.
You can fit a few select 16" wheels to clear the M3 brakes.
Re: 4 Stud to 5 Stud conversion
Posted: Thu Feb 23, 2012 7:10 pm
by kilrone
I have used the sleeve method and original struts with e36 front hubs and I am very happy with the result. there are no bearings to mate an e36 hub to an e30 strut, all BMW front hubs are the bearing they are a one piece unit. my hub nut engages on all of its thread but the hub does stand further out and it is a more difficult mod than using m3 parts.i will post some pics when i get a chance to sort through them.
Re: 4 Stud to 5 Stud conversion
Posted: Thu Feb 23, 2012 10:04 pm
by e30topless
kilrone wrote:I have used the sleeve method and original struts with e36 front hubs and I am very happy with the result. there are no bearings to mate an e36 hub to an e30 strut, all BMW front hubs are the bearing they are a one piece unit. my hub nut engages on all of its thread but the hub does stand further out and it is a more difficult mod than using m3 parts.i will post some pics when i get a chance to sort through them.
what size nut did you use on the strut ? IIRC the M3 E30 is 46mm and bigger than the 36mm E30 nut,
Re: 4 Stud to 5 Stud conversion
Posted: Fri Feb 24, 2012 9:36 am
by Jhonno
e30topless wrote:kilrone wrote:I have used the sleeve method and original struts with e36 front hubs and I am very happy with the result. there are no bearings to mate an e36 hub to an e30 strut, all BMW front hubs are the bearing they are a one piece unit. my hub nut engages on all of its thread but the hub does stand further out and it is a more difficult mod than using m3 parts.i will post some pics when i get a chance to sort through them.
what size nut did you use on the strut ? IIRC the M3 E30 is 46mm and bigger than the 36mm E30 nut,
It is bigger.
Re: 4 Stud to 5 Stud conversion
Posted: Fri Feb 24, 2012 10:11 am
by anothere21323i
Jhonno wrote:The rear brakes don't fit is why.. The arse of an E30 is light anyway, so it actually works ok.
You can fit a few select 16" wheels to clear the M3 brakes.
That's a very good reason! I don't suppose that these would fit would they:
http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/16-BMW-Alloys ... _500wt_922
Re: 4 Stud to 5 Stud conversion
Posted: Fri Feb 24, 2012 10:20 am
by Jesus
Gurmz wrote:Hi all,
Im thinking of doing a 5 sud conversion to my E30.
From what i know i need E36 M3 EVO front set up (hubs, break, calipers, struts and wishbones) and the 318 TI trailing arm.
I just wanted to know if anyone has done this? or if anyone has any information on this topic?
Thanks in advance.
G
Sorry for stating the obvious:
What about E30 M3 stuff. Then there are no ABS issues either
Re: 4 Stud to 5 Stud conversion
Posted: Fri Feb 24, 2012 10:22 am
by mick_318is
Jesus wrote:Gurmz wrote:Hi all,
Im thinking of doing a 5 sud conversion to my E30.
From what i know i need E36 M3 EVO front set up (hubs, break, calipers, struts and wishbones) and the 318 TI trailing arm.
I just wanted to know if anyone has done this? or if anyone has any information on this topic?
Thanks in advance.
G
Sorry for stating the obvious:
What about E30 M3 stuff. Then there are no ABS issues either
M3 stuff is expensive
Re: 4 Stud to 5 Stud conversion
Posted: Fri Feb 24, 2012 10:23 am
by Jhonno
mick_318is wrote:Jesus wrote:Gurmz wrote:Hi all,
Im thinking of doing a 5 sud conversion to my E30.
From what i know i need E36 M3 EVO front set up (hubs, break, calipers, struts and wishbones) and the 318 TI trailing arm.
I just wanted to know if anyone has done this? or if anyone has any information on this topic?
Thanks in advance.
G
Sorry for stating the obvious:
What about E30 M3 stuff. Then there are no ABS issues either
M3 stuff is proper, but I wont have enough pennies left for sick rimz
Re: 4 Stud to 5 Stud conversion
Posted: Fri Feb 24, 2012 1:49 pm
by Emm3
Cant you just use the 5 stud hub sections from the e30 m3 on the e30 struts af the layout is the same i.e pressed bearings at the rear and bolted on the front. Unless the bearings are a different size then i suppose it wont work
Re: 4 Stud to 5 Stud conversion
Posted: Fri Feb 24, 2012 1:50 pm
by Jhonno
Bearings are different sizes. If it were that easy it'd be done.
Re: 4 Stud to 5 Stud conversion
Posted: Fri Feb 24, 2012 2:00 pm
by harry_p
i'm pretty sure you can use e30 m3 rear hubs and bearings on normal e30 arms i think?
i always thought rear arms were the same on all disk brake cars, but now i'm wondering if the m3s are different as i think the brakes were too
even if they did work at the fron, have you seen how much m3 front bearings are? e28 ones can fit, but you need to swap the abs rings, so unless you can find some cheap it's not going to save you much, and i doubt anyone would sell a secondhand e30 m3 front hub without the leg attached to it!
and again, if it did bolt on i doubt the disk would sit in the right place for the calliper.
again, nothing that can't be made to work, but yet more ballache and money.
Re: 4 Stud to 5 Stud conversion
Posted: Fri Feb 24, 2012 2:07 pm
by Jhonno
All rear arms are identical, as in the actual trailing arm itself. (Disc arms even, drum arms are different).
Caliper mount would be all wrong as you say Harry.