E30 Zone

I'm going to drive to the Nurburgring in August in my iS. I've done a fair bit of research and booked the B and B.

Grateful for any tips from anyone who's been. I know it's not going to be cheap (I'm budgeting £400 just for petrol) but any tips - what to take, what to look out for on the way, what to be wary of on the track etc. - would be fab.

I'm going to take oil, coolant, European legal bits etc. and the car/tyres are pretty good.

Thanks

awsome man bet it will be suprb youl have agreat trip ! would like to do that myself somewhen, how long you going for and whats your rough total trip estimate ?

£400 in fuel anyone got an idea (with the diff prices) how much in fuel it costs to get from calais the ring and back ? as people mkake the trip dont they ? do you like do a couple of slow laps then pick up the pace or what ?

MAKE SURE YOUVE GOT PLENTY OF MONEY!you have to pay for any track time closure due to any accident you may have or if you drop oil etc,arm co barrier repair.The list goes on,other than that,have a great time.When I say money weir talking in the low Ks.

You might do calais to the ring and back on a tank of fuel, its going round the ring youll do a tank in just a few laps!

Im going monday, I have a day to get from lille to south germany, so were heading there. Shame itll be a fully loaded up van

This site is awesome:

http://www.nurburgring.org.uk/

Watch out for bikes, porsches, ring taxis and anything on cut slicks!!!!

Learn the track on GT4 or GT5 in car view, it will help a great deal.

Most of it is just common sense, but there are some things worth stating just in case;

Make sure the car is in mechanically tip top condition, good brakes, no leaks etc.

Watch your mirrors and let faster cars/bikes past.

Only overtake on the left.

Don't crash - your insurance wont cover it.

After doing a lap, don't park up and put the handbrake on.

If your car develops a problem, don't try and nurse it off the track. Pull up and wait for recovery.

Make sure your brakes are up to scratch. Not just good discs and pads but also good fluid. Worth spending extra on decent fluid too. Inspect all the lines as well.

Enjoy

you won't do loads in fuel, i doubt you'll do more than 10 laps and you can get 9 laps out of a tank in a 325i so the iS won't be anyworse than that

Like the Uk there are cheaper garages off of the main drags.

As some one said play simulator games preferabley in a slowish car also watch laps on you tube or the like.

Drive within your capabilities and watch your mirrors like a hawk.

Buy some raced up brake pads, also track tyres if you can afford them, toyo r888's are excellent.

You will love it its a 14 mile rollercoaster and the mecca for petrol heads!

e301988325i wrote:Watch out for bikes, porsches

Yeah, I had both of those get in the way

What the hell is armco? It's dearer then crack

Been a few times now and I still love it, off again in June.

Here's a check list.

1. Don't crash, drop oil on track or breakdown on the ring. Armco is 1500euros for a 5 metre section, track closure cost 500euro's per half hour!!!!!

2. Don't try to be Schumacher on your first lap. I went out all guns blazing until i got to the top of th hill just afte you get on the track, as you come over the crest the first 4 corners come into view, then i sh1t myself! Take it easy

3. Do take more money than you need, i did £1000 in a 5 day trip last year

4. Do play the trach constantly (everyday if you can) between now and when you go on either gt4 or gt5. It helps you learn whats rund the next corner if nothing else. I used a bmw 120 diesel with 170bhp so that its realistic speed wise.

5. Take tools, top ups for all fluids, spare bulbs, high viz jackets etc.

6. Have fun, it'll be the experience of a lifetime.

Just so you know my first ever lap was 13:45 so don't go out there to beat 911's and m5's, my best lap now is 8:48 and i average low nines. But its taken 40 oddlaps, a lot of practice on the computer and some cornering that was scary to say the least

Armco is the metal fence about a meter from the track edge, 100-125e per meter if my memory serves me right!

Some good tips Tom but most would strongly advise against lap timing!

lap timing is for d!ckheads and armco junkies. The heros don't time

ian332isport wrote:

e301988325i wrote:Watch out for bikes, porsches

Yeah, I had both of those get in the way

Bikes blast past you on the straights and get in the way in the corners. Try to get on when it's as bike free as possible.
I had a VERY close moment with a Porsche. I was just coming out of a right hand bend running from the apex to the outside of the corner, when a Porsche appeared in the mirror at an incredible closing speed. Just managed to hold it into the middle of the road, as he flashed by on the left and disappeared into the distance!
As several have said already, learn the track before you go. It's a very strange piece of road, full of blind corners, blind apexes, and all sorts of funny cambers.

Simon13 wrote:lap timing is for d!ckheads and armco junkies. The heros don't time

Surely lap times are key?

Take lots of money ! Last time I went in a borrowed s2000 , I did 25laps

ian332isport wrote:

e301988325i wrote:Watch out for bikes, porsches

Yeah, I had both of those get in the way

Bikes do get in the way once you know your way around.

I locked up both front wheels avoiding someone in a porsche with too much money as he created a new braking point, I reckon I was under two feet from crashing straight into the back of him at 100+.

I also rounded a corner to find an enlish registered lotus Evora with two chinese passegers spinning slowly on it's roof. Luckily, noone hurt and the ring taxis got there before and were dealing with the incident.

Talking of ring taxis, they nearly took my wing mirrors off overtaking me down into the fuchshore (foxhole) they had two wheels on the grass as I tried to get out of the way.

I think the lesson is watch out for everybody doing unexpected things.

So what happens if you crash Into somebody?
Is it the case,"well we are all on a race track,shit happens" knd of thing?
Because I presume your local friendly insurance company wouldn't want to know?!
I can't wait to go round,jar got to make my car reliable enough.

Best circuit ive ever been to, have fun!

macas wrote:So what happens if you crash Into somebody?
Is it the case,"well we are all on a race track,shit happens" knd of thing?
Because I presume your local friendly insurance company wouldn't want to know?!
I can't wait to go round,jar got to make my car reliable enough.

If you are not covered in your policy for the Ring SPECIFICALLY IN WRITING (i.e. the policy terms state "you are insured for TF days at the Nurburgring" you have to assume that you are NOT insured, and that any payments out made by your insurer will be recovered from you by them through the Courts. You might be lucky and get away with it, but insurers are not renowned as charitable organisations, are they?

That's taken from this rather long winded discussion on the matter: http://pistonheads.com/gassing/topic.as ... mid=248604

I will not be taking part in Touristenfahrten (tourist lapping) again, if there worst was to happen and, for instance, you took out a biker and he was killed then the repercussions really aren't worth thinking about.

Trackdays there are the way forward, expensive but with massively reduced risk and much more enjoyable lapping.

TheHeap wrote:

Simon13 wrote:lap timing is for d!ckheads and armco junkies. The heros don't time

Surely lap times are key?

key to f**king what? Your there on TF to have fun not try and be Hans Stuck or end up like Nikka Lauda

best tip which no one ever mentions? Drive within your limits.

When your on the ragged edge trying to go quicker than your talent allows, you end up crashing or dead. I've been queing to get on the track when fatal accidents have happened, not funny and all for what half the time? To be an extra 5 secs or whatever quicker.

8/10 never more on the ring on TF

Deffo drive within your limits.

Just have fun and enjoy it like it was a fast road on TF days because it can be just as busy!

I would love to do a track day there though in a suitable car.

In addition to the tips above... here's a few more:

- Weekday evenings can be the best times to get on track, it'll be a load quieter.
- take a helmet with you and see if you can get a passenger lap with someone experienced before you go out. Most people there are very friendly nerds like us and will happily show you round.
- take a passenger for your first few laps, their role is to watch out for the rapidly closing porsche / bike that you've missed in your mirrors.

After a few laps, when you have a basic understanding of where to go, you'll be smoother and faster which will in turn reduce the amount of traffic passing you, in turn allowing you to follow the best line for more of the lap.

It's a very steep learning curve so just go with it, start slow (when it's quiet) and work up in a relaxed manner.

Oh and never ever say "watch this" to a passenger...!

Best tip...... Hire a car and thrash that. Then drive home in your e30.

I went a number of years ago when both public laps and fuel were much cheaper! As people have said before give everyone lots of space as you will get unpredictable drivers. Always watch your mirrors, the last thing you need is a Dodge Viper or otherwise piling into the back of you at 100mph+ because you made an unpredictable move. If you move over, indicate and make make your movement very deliberate.

Learning on GT4, Forza or whatever is great for telling you which way the corners go but treat it as no more than that. Changes in road surface, bumps, camber changes etc arn't all in the game! The game also lets you use the kerbs. In real life, by and large, try this and you will be in trouble!

Remember there's very little run-off so if you do get it wrong, there's often nowhere to go before hitting the barriers.

On the plus side, drive with a safe margin of error and you can have the time of your life!! Give it a little more caution than a UK trackday and you will be fine

Simon13 wrote:

TheHeap wrote:

Simon13 wrote:lap timing is for d!ckheads and armco junkies. The heros don't time

Surely lap times are key?

key to f**king what? Your there on TF to have fun not try and be Hans Stuck or end up like Nikka Lauda

best tip which no one ever mentions? Drive within your limits.

When your on the ragged edge trying to go quicker than your talent allows, you end up crashing or dead. I've been queing to get on the track when fatal accidents have happened, not funny and all for what half the time? To be an extra 5 secs or whatever quicker.

8/10 never more on the ring on TF

Key to beating that 10mins (i'm guessing this is the average target?)

I can't see the point in going there for "a nice drive". That's what Wales is for.

You think those Porches and the like are there for a nice drive? I doubt it. They are there to beat the time they set last time?

I'm pretty sure i have read a thread on here with someone saying they got their laps down to 8:47 or something like that? Surely he/she done this by trying to better the last lap?

Oh and what's TF?

I forget the exact translation but it means tourist lap.

As for porches doing hot lap times you would be surprised, most of them are posers and are painfully slow everywhere bar the straights and will be holding up well driven hot hatches who's drivers have a bit of all important track knowledge.

As has already been said, GT4/5 will give you a rough idea of which corners come up but nothing more than that. Don't spend a week before you go playing GT4/5 and expect to be even close to prepared for what awaits!

Don't bother timing yourself, you can't brag about it if you're dead...and everyone who does lies about their time anyway (let's face it, if we could all drive around there faster than manufacturer test drivers then we'd all be one!)

Leave your ego at home. You will not be the fastest person driving around that circuit.

The stories about the costs of bending it when you're there are true. During one of our trips a friend of mine received a fine of €3,600 for recovery, armco and track closure (and €3,600 was cheaper back then too!).

Finally, don't drive on the motorway all the way there. If you're travelling from Calais then come off the E40 at Eupen and take the backroads for the rest of the way, it's almost as much fun as the 'Ring itself!

It's an amazing place and even if you only go once you'll never forget it but be prepared to start arranging the next trip as soon as you get back!

TheHeap wrote:

You think those Porches and the like are there for a nice drive? I doubt it. They are there to beat the time they set last time?

As far as I'm aware he's not taking a GT3RS or GT2RS which are designed to make rich people think they can drive like Schumacher...

I've lapped the 'Ring in 7:21...I haven't but my point is nobody can prove me wrong so what's the point in timing your lap?

TF = Touristenfahrten or Tourist Laps. Not the same as a trackday.

Everyone will have a 'target' in mind due to bloody Clarkson poncing round in that Jag and all the manufacturers hype about lap times.
Tackle the first few laps like a great bit of road you have found but don't know where it goes. As said before, console games will let you learn the circuits direction but you still need to be very wary regarding cambers/bumps and severe gradient changes. It's really easy to get sucked in after a few laps and think you've got it cracked until you have to concentrate on safely passing slower vehicles whilst letting the fast guys past. You need to be more aware of what's behind you rather than trying to overtake.

The first and last hour of TF will be the quietest and if you are going to have a watch running, don't time every lap an don't ever look at the time when you are on your way round the lap. Timing on TF is really frowned upon and often sighted as the cause of most off's/accidents.

The 'Ring is an awesome place steeped in the greatest motorsport history an is to be treated with respect. I can attest to the fact that one, small mistake can have potentially huge consequences . That said, there really is no other place in the world like it and I'm sure you will have loads of fun, it is petrolhead nirvana afterall.

Enjoy and let us know how you get on!

F4stjay - Eupen to the 'ring is an awesome drive except the bloody concrete tank road through the forest! Roughest piece of public, main road Tarmac I've ever driven! Agreed, no room for egos there either.

bullwinkle wrote:F4stjay - Eupen to the 'ring is an awesome drive except the bloody concrete tank road through the forest! Roughest piece of public, main road Tarmac I've ever driven! Agreed, no room for egos there either.

I don't know when you last went to the 'Ring but it's not nearly as bumpy as it used to be. They repaired a large section of that road in around 2007...but you're right, the first part of the road is horrendous! It's well worth driving over it to get to the 40-50km of twisties before you get to the track though

I also always take the route from Eupen, the tank road is rather unpleasant in my car which has 600lb/in springs!

600lbs! Bet that's 30mph across there then!

Last time I went I was in the Caterham - bloody bone shaking (and cold. And wet)

Not taken the IS yet, very tempted by the July trackday.