E30 Zone

Hey guys, this is mainly for the guys with forced induction or running high power or even someone with common sense...

Whats the backend like under power? does it let go and you got to fight to get it back or isit controlable? especially in the wet?

what about when you get boost, do you lose traction? even with an lsd?

Cheers,
Raj

Depends on what modifications the chassis has. I mean, an E30 with 185 tyres on a 6J rim with standard shocks and springs is going to struggle but nice wide 8J rim and 225 tyres with coilovers is going to help alot.

Fact of the matter though is that the semi trailing arm rear supension design is pretty basic and flawed in some respects which means its a struggle to put serious power down effectively.

In my oppionon circa 300-350bhp is about the limit for an E30's chassis regardless of modifications.

to be honest I'd say 250bhp especially if it's got a decent amount of torque and the arse end is everywhere unless you are very gradual with the throttle, something that kicks in with boost is a straight line weapon IMO

I dont take mine out in the wet unless I have to, pointless really as its impossible to drive 'properly'

A decent 325i is imposible to to drive properly in the wet!

I agree about the FI thing, f*ck coming on boost mid bend with 400lbft!

i've seen many rear wheel drive cars light up in the dry on boost.

ive seen none turbo 325i's do it

it just got me thinking today, as i lost the backend on the 964 this morning, and thought, wonder what the e30s are like with boost....

i bet its fun when you want it to be though....

must get my E30 turboed

I have to be careful with my 325i in the wet even on 205 Bridgestones.

E30's are like any rear drive sports car. They are well balanced though, and quite controllable.
As far as controlling the car while its dancing, the main problem is the slow steering. Your arms will be flailing about like a mad man going lock to lock etc.
There is a mod (which i'm going to do to my car) to use the E36 steering rack that improves things considerably. Aside from that, E30's are pretty stable.
One other thing that can cause a bit of loosness on the back, is if the car is lowered, it can give the back wheels too much camber, which can cause grip issues. Again, there is a modified bush to sort this.

I think E30's are very controlable, wet or dry. If the car was setup correctly and you know how to drive a car, I don't think you would struggle driving a powerful turbocharged E30 around a track.

345 pounds of torque on mine.
Slides and spins in the dry let alone the wet.
Just got to be careful goin around a bend with the boost kicking in.
I run 9.5j rims aswell!

I'm running 2 turbo's with 13 j rear rims, coil-overs, ARB, polly bushes and all the rest and i would never dream of chucking my car round corners. Like Beemerlad said it's more a straight line speed thing for me. Maybe it's partly because my driving skills is not the best, but i remember losing the back end of my old cab once in the wet after going round a round about and putting my foot down too hard before i had completly exited the corner and lets just changed my pants changed colour

I only have moderate power so not to sure about the op's question.

I am amazed at how many dislike the wet, with practice its great fun and and extremely rewarding!

mattrs wrote:I only have moderate power so not to sure about the op's question.

I am amazed at how many dislike the wet, with practice its great fun and and extremely rewarding!

Practise?! I was "practising", then my car decided to involve itself with Pong style antics, one curb to the other... didn't end well.

No, what happened really was I lost traction coming off a roundabout in really wet conditions, only have a 318is as well, and I was in third, albeit accelerating... not much I could do, felt like I was on ice! That's about when the Pong simulation happened...

mattrs wrote: I am amazed at how many dislike the wet, with practice its great fun and and extremely rewarding!

Who said they dislike the wet? Its fine if you want to spin the wheels on a roundabout at 10mph but thats not exactly driving properly is it. To drive properly (fast) in the wet is dangerous which is why I dont do it.

DanThe wrote:

mattrs wrote: I am amazed at how many dislike the wet, with practice its great fun and and extremely rewarding!

Who said they dislike the wet? Its fine if you want to spin the wheels on a roundabout at 10mph but thats not exactly driving properly is it. To drive properly (fast) in the wet is dangerous which is why I dont do it.

Agreed

When you have 80-90 bhp more than an standard 325 it's harder to control the car in the wet.

DJL1987 wrote:

mattrs wrote:I only have moderate power so not to sure about the op's question.

I am amazed at how many dislike the wet, with practice its great fun and and extremely rewarding!

Practise?! I was "practising", then my car decided to involve itself with Pong style antics, one curb to the other... didn't end well.

No, what happened really was I lost traction coming off a roundabout in really wet conditions, only have a 318is as well, and I was in third, albeit accelerating... not much I could do, felt like I was on ice! That's about when the Pong simulation happened...

If you can practice controling oversteer safely then if and when it happens under normal circumstances then you will be far better equiped to deal with it.

Dezzy wrote:

DanThe wrote:

mattrs wrote: I am amazed at how many dislike the wet, with practice its great fun and and extremely rewarding!

Who said they dislike the wet? Its fine if you want to spin the wheels on a roundabout at 10mph but thats not exactly driving properly is it. To drive properly (fast) in the wet is dangerous which is why I dont do it.

Agreed

When you have 80-90 bhp more than an standard 325 it's harder to control the car in the wet.

Granted but far from impossible.

DanThe wrote:

mattrs wrote: I am amazed at how many dislike the wet, with practice its great fun and and extremely rewarding!

Who said they dislike the wet? Its fine if you want to spin the wheels on a roundabout at 10mph but thats not exactly driving properly is it. To drive properly (fast) in the wet is dangerous which is why I dont do it.

Booty man.

Who said 10 mph?

mattrs wrote:I only have moderate power so not to sure about the op's question.

I am amazed at how many dislike the wet, with practice its great fun and and extremely rewarding!

the wet its only fun in a cheap standard snotter! when you have a bit more power and ex amount of money/time invested and your sideways for no real reason its bloody scary!!

in the dry is a different story, i can make good progress without to much drama.

Nobody said impossible.
Practicing oversteer on public roads isn't safe. Drift days and the likes are good if that's what your into. Driving E30's properly (fast) is always better in the dry IMO

Slow speed rounderbout antics can be fun in the right place but soon get boring

What about the extra weight a touring has? I've not felt the rear on mine going once, maybe the m42 can't cut it? Cheap tires as well, open diff if it makes a difference. I struggled to get any sort of arse out action in the wet when I tried ages ago. Maybe I don't drive it hard enough...

I dunno, I've never driven anything other than a touring, but even a 316i is 'chuckable' in the wet... from what I can gather it acts differently in that you have to imagine it's like a hammer and you have to 'swing' it...once the weight is out the deed is done :p

I've done some stupid things in my 325i touring in the wet before but mercifully haven't been greeted with any serious change in direction except for once on a roundabout when my 'oh cool it's slightly sideways' turned into a frenzy of steering corrections...

Dezzy wrote:Nobody said impossible.
Practicing oversteer on public roads isn't safe. Drift days and the likes are good if that's what your into. Driving E30's properly (fast) is always better in the dry IMO

Slow speed rounderbout antics can be fun in the right place but soon get boring

I know, what i am getting at is if its "harder" then surely its more rewarding!?

It only begins to get slightly boring once you have masterd it imho! Then its time to up the power/speed and safety.

I am not a drifter not interested in watching or doing it.
I am not saying I don't like a play when the time is right.
I have far to much money and effort in my car to risk it it that way.
I have nothing against it apart from young doils risking there lives and others on public roads.

penton08 wrote:

mattrs wrote:I only have moderate power so not to sure about the op's question.

I am amazed at how many dislike the wet, with practice its great fun and and extremely rewarding!

the wet its only fun in a cheap standard snotter! when you have a bit more power and ex amount of money/time invested and your sideways for no real reason its bloody scary!!

in the dry is a different story, i can make good progress without to much drama.

Well I still find it fun and whilst I only have around 200 ponies I also have lightened panels, cage, nice suspension, race brakes etc etc. So I too have plenty of money invested.

I still maintain it’s a lot of fun and well worth practising!


My Dad, my mate and i did a track day recently at brands, had a go of my old 540i manual that I sold to my mate, other than red stuff pads and bigger wheels its bog standard and as such like bambi around there! Any way I had a moment, I was a little over enthusiastic into Paddock hill bend It went majorly sideways (90 odd) and whilst it was scary I managed to save it reasonably comfortably and I put that down to the fun I have had and skills I have learnt in the wet!

Dezzy wrote:I am not a drifter not interested in watching or doing it.
I am not saying I don't like a play when the time is right.
I have far to much money and effort in my car to risk it it that way.
I have nothing against it apart from young doils risking there lives and others on public roads.

Nor me really, I much prefer track days and racing, i also really like rally cross where some of the skills are transferrable!

I say that the euro drift was at time attack at Brands last year and that was pretty exciting!

3-4 months to the first snow fall..

mattrs wrote:

DanThe wrote:

mattrs wrote: I am amazed at how many dislike the wet, with practice its great fun and and extremely rewarding!

Who said they dislike the wet? Its fine if you want to spin the wheels on a roundabout at 10mph but thats not exactly driving properly is it. To drive properly (fast) in the wet is dangerous which is why I dont do it.

Booty man.

Who said 10 mph?

I think it comes down more to knowing my driving limits! Whilst i think i'm a decent day to day driver, i certainly know my limits when it comes to chucking a E30 about and i wont ever risk it. I crashed my Motorsport cab at Heathrow in the wet and with some aviation fuel thrown in and it was not a pleaseant experience. Everything was like in slow motion and my rims looked like crushed coke cans by the time i came to a rest so i leave the larking about to the people who know what they are doing!

cecotto_singh wrote:345 pounds of torque on mine.
Slides and spins in the dry let alone the wet.
Just got to be careful goin around a bend with the boost kicking in.
I run 9.5j rims aswell!

4 'slicks' and a 'welder' don't help !

My recollection of driving my E30 twin turbo in the wet was that if you used the optional "not full throttle" facility, it was absolutely fine.

If you're really worried about it, have a second map for wet driving which softens boost delivery / lowers max boost.

Only few brown trouser moments I had were when the back end broke traction just coming up to 70mph in a straight line!

Turbo-Brown wrote:My recollection of driving my E30 twin turbo in the wet was that if you used the optional "not full throttle" facility, it was absolutely fine.

If you're really worried about it, have a second map for wet driving which softens boost delivery / lowers max boost.

Only few brown trouser moments I had were when the back end broke traction just coming up to 70mph in a straight line!

Or fit a boost controller like i have so you can switch the turbo's off completley or at least be able to control them

Your Emerald can do that can't it Ben?

Turbo-Brown wrote:Your Emerald can do that can't it Ben?

I have a controller on the dash which can swtich them off completly or 2 buttons to deliver low or high boost, plus a knob to turn things up or down! To be honest i drive mine in low boost 99% of the time because i get 150 miles to a tank if i'm good, plus for isurance purposes i have it set at around 250bhp and that is pleanty for me. After all i'm not a speed freak i'm more of a poser and i prefer show to go

I honestly think my E30 needs any more power than it has. It's very useable because the torque curve of the S50 engine, and the throttle response that comes from the bodies and the light flywheel mean you can steer with the throttle very subtly and just take it easy and shift early in the wet. The engine can be tractable but you can rev the tits out of it to make big power. My 325i with a 4.1 LSD was a much more sideways car in many respects. There's more torque in the S50 but it builds predictably.

That's an S50B32 (300+ bhp and 265ft/lb of torque) normally aspirated, and I do think that's the difference. I really like the engine of Appletree's supercharged iS. I bet thats easily as quick as mine and more nimble around the corners. The torque curve of that would make it awesome with no surprise torque mid-corner when you're not expecting it!

Jai