Driving fast corners 4 pot.

[SUMPCRACKER]

I may well have the driving style of the 325 all wrong, but i have always enterd a tight corner with bags of understeer and used the power to push it into oversteer to make the turn,(that sounds like it works every time )

Well i drove a 318 today, and nearly bashed it
Err- no understeer? which is good as Err no midrange punch for oversteer either..

I have always read about the 4 pot handling different but i wasn't expecting it to be a different car!

Im sure its capable of a cleaner/faster turn in but the lack of ability to break traction would be dodgy for me, can see the attraction of the IS though.
I should think some 4 pot deviants have had a nasty suprise when they have entered their first fast corner in a 6pot!

[Jhonno]

M20 cars feel nose heavy to drive to me..

My turd with S50 up front feels less nose heavy than the 325i I am driving atm, but then the lump is basically up against the bulkhead

[Felix79]

The m20's cast iron lump not really going to help.

It's been so long since I driven a 318i I can't remember how it use to feel when pushing it.

[SUMPCRACKER]

Im suprised by this Dan, would have thought the S50 hevier and the M20s are nearly touching the bulkhead..

You have some nice wide rubber on the front though which must help, looks like you have a bit of camber going on too, and im sure it wont be too hard to get it to oversteer if it doesnt turn

But i agree after driving a 4pot that the M20 feels a bit heavy.

[harry_p]

having to break traction to make something turn isnt going to be the fastest way around a corner, you're using driving technique to overcome poor handling. if you have confidence in the entry and mid corner you can carry speed all the way through and not need to unsettle the back to get the car to go where it's supposed to.

surely the understeer / power oversteer method is only going to work at reletively low speeds (unless its raining) while something that 'handles' better will still be balanced at 80mph plus.

horses for courses and all that, handling is always going to be a subjective thing. one persons perfect setup could be another persons nightmare.

[SUMPCRACKER]

I think its usually about 60ish mph , i live in milton keynes which is mainly roundabouts and carrigways.

[maxfield]

If the cars understeering then surely you're hitting the corner too fast. That's how I see it.

Slow in, fast out.

[SUMPCRACKER]

Im aware of the speed issue, but its not exactly hard to make an M20 car understeer is it

[Felix79]

Funny when I use to live in Bedford I would go through MK all the time and my 318 use to be able to do the round about shed loads quicker.

In my Alpina it's not to nose heavy but feels very twitchy on the back regardless.

[Ilkorin]

First time I hit a corner at speed in the 6 pot it felt really strange! the little 4 pots would be quite easy to sort of 'flick' back into line... the driving technique is totally different when it comes to handling the understeer....the 6 just wouldn't stop understeering! Then I realised what the right foot is for

of course now with a suspension upgrade its totally changed again!

[Simon13]

get the right suspension on a 325i and none of this is an issue. Some neg camber on the front helps alot as do some M3 TCA bushes

[andyp]

get the right suspension on a 325i and none of this is an issue. Some neg camber on the front helps alot as do some M3 TCA bushes

o really sorry we thought yours were 4 pots.

[mrLEE30]

sometimes people think that understeer is too little grip from the front end, but it can also be caused by too much grip at the rear end. as simon correctly points out any car badly set up will not corner well. a nose heavy car will require slightly different driving style, but if the car is set up correctly it should handle neutrally. understeer into a corner is also a fault of the driver, and the temptation is to steer more, this only has the same effect as braking harder once the wheel are locked up. the solution is to come off the steering and power, lesseneing the understeer, its also a good time if you are skilled enough to left foot brake.

as can be seen quite well from the touring photo cornering above, the front wheel is loaded up so well the tyre is coming away from the rim, hte inside tyre are just in contact, the front wheels are not scrubbing or understeering, the rear is displaying similar characteristics, this is probably the optimum speed for this corner with this car.

mrlee

[Simon13]

Ask Henry (bozzo) if PYF had understeer, nice and neutral. It went where you pointed it!

[iDreamBeemer]

I know what you mean, I do notice the nose being that much heavier than my old iS. Same suspension on both cars, bilstein and H&R combo. I found the iS generally easier to drive hard (which is relative because its got no grunt!)

Still working on changing my driving style to suit the 325. Maybe once I stick a sub in the boot it should help balance out the weight a little!

[Rosc0PColtrane]

Buy some Nanking ditchfinders!

[bss325i]

M20 cars feel nose heavy to drive to me..

My turd with S50 up front feels less nose heavy than the 325i I am driving atm, but then the lump is basically up against the bulkhead

I find it the other way round. The S50 always felt heavy to me, going back to the sport felt like when i first drove a 4 pot E30.

Mine was/is right against the bulkhead.

[bss325i]

get the right suspension on a 325i and none of this is an issue. Some neg camber on the front helps alot as do some M3 TCA bushes

+1!

It changed the way the car handled in the S50 when i changed the possition of the top mounts to max neg(BMW camber correction top mounts), much less understeer.

[ShakeyC]

If the cars understeering then surely you're hitting the corner too fast. That's how I see it.

Slow in, fast out.

learn to drive folks

[Simon13]

fully cranked coming through Bridshiede @ the ring in pyf RIP! No understeer, although the tyres are almost off the rim!

This is with progressive rate H&R springs, which i like as you can feel the car load up to its mechanical grip limit. I find with standard wound springs inc eibachs this is masked more and harder to "feel" when cornering with speed. I never know where i am with them. But as said some people love them and thats fine just not how i like it. It took 4 trips to the ring to get a 325i to handle how i thought best. Everytrip changing springs, bushes roll bar settings etc till i found something i liked. To be honest now the setup was too low and rode too hard on the road.

This trip coming up i've transfered this setup to the alpina touring but whats it going to be like with a pokey 2.7 and bigger brakes? I'm hoping the same but we shall see, the only difference this time is alpina top mounts which have loads more negative camber and more castor dialled than before. I might like it even more! I doubt it will corner quicker though as i'm going on road tyres and they limit your corner speeds, braking zones alot compared to track tyres. Having said that i'm going to try goodyear eagle F1's instead of toyo proxies this trip see if that helps a little

Its all in the setup and driving style everything will understeer if you want it to to some degree imo

[Jhonno]

M20 cars feel nose heavy to drive to me..

My turd with S50 up front feels less nose heavy than the 325i I am driving atm, but then the lump is basically up against the bulkhead

I find it the other way round. The S50 always felt heavy to me, going back to the sport felt like when i first drove a 4 pot E30.

Mine was/is right against the bulkhead.

Mine feels loads more nimble than the 325i.. Might be partly down to the e36 rack making turn in sharper.

I also have the carbon bonnet and lightened flywheel, both of which reduce nose weight, although wider rears which would encourage understeer.. Just bought the same size for the rears as the fronts so we'll see how it handles like that

[Jhonno]

I would actually be really interested to try a well set up 4 pot to compare to my S50'd turd..

[ian332isport]

i'm going to try goodyear eagle F1's instead of toyo proxies this trip see if that helps a little

Simon,

I know everyone raves about them, but I hated the way they felt on my car. I found the sidewalls way too soft, and never felt happy driving quickly with them. They never actually let go, but they felt awful.

I always seem to go back to Bridgestones. My current RE050a hoops are kin brilliant.

Ian.

[Jhonno]

F1's depend on where they are made...

Try some RS-2's

Or as Ian says, the Bridgestones are very highly rated

[magpie]

I should think some 4 pot deviants have had a nasty suprise when they have entered their first fast corner in a 6pot![/quote]

a 318 m10,try a chipped up healthy m42.

never gonna be as good as an alcho pop though.

[Simon13]

Thats interesting Ian, i've used them on the road but not the ring. Proxies are a very good tyre but the sidewalls i found are soft also as you can see in the pic! And they go off after about 2/3rds of a lap.

I expect all roads tyres will go off round the ring, it is a long lap

I don't think i've seen the bridgestones in 16 inch size to possible try them

[ian332isport]

I would actually be really interested to try a well set up 4 pot to compare to my S50'd turd..

No contest really

You'll have got to the corner, oversteered round it, and booted it off down the next straight before the 4 pot gets to the corner & nimbly drives around it

[d6dph]

First thing I noticed when I swapped to 16s was how much softer the ride was, The toyos do seem have a lot softer sidewalls compared to the dunlops I had on the 17s.

[bss325i]

M20 cars feel nose heavy to drive to me..

My turd with S50 up front feels less nose heavy than the 325i I am driving atm, but then the lump is basically up against the bulkhead

I find it the other way round. The S50 always felt heavy to me, going back to the sport felt like when i first drove a 4 pot E30.

Mine was/is right against the bulkhead.

Mine feels loads more nimble than the 325i.. Might be partly down to the e36 rack making turn in sharper.

I also have the carbon bonnet and lightened flywheel, both of which reduce nose weight, although wider rears which would encourage understeer.. Just bought the same size for the rears as the fronts so we'll see how it handles like that

Yes the E36 rack certainly transforms the steering feel. Its certainly one thing i realy miss and having a btb2 on the sport prevents me having one.

[SUMPCRACKER]

Im using the toyo proxies, they do like to grip but ive got r888's on my mazda and they are amazing in the dry (you need a baffled sump) but a tad dangerous in the wet.


If i get some decent wheels for the E30 i will try 888's and some camber, but no stiff front roll bar.

Edit- just noticed ive got Falkens on the front?
htf did that happen? they should be on the back
Looks like they swapped them when i got the wheels balanced

[d6dph]

Dan, The 325 is soooo different to you S50, You're on M3 suspension with ACS bouncy stuff and very wide 17s & the 325 is on a relatively cheap suspension kit with 7.5" 16s.

[ian332isport]

I don't think i've seen the bridgestones in 16 inch size to possible try them

Have a look here:

http://www.bridgestone.eu/bfe/lineup-pr ... me=Potenza RE050A&sitestring=Bridgestone Europe&rq=com.vignette.ext.templating.util.RequestContext@9d35e8

For some reason, the link doesn't work, but cut 'n' paste it into your browser.

Ian.

[Simon13]

I was just on the site looking for this! alas not available in the right size according to the link. Hey ho

16's are a pain. Avon ZZ3's any good? SP9000 dunlops? Vredestein? i've heard good things about them

Maybe just stick with a proven tyre!

[SUMPCRACKER]

NEVER BEEN ON THE RING but ive done some tracks and doubt there is a better legal tyre.

[Jhonno]

Dan, The 325 is soooo different to you S50, You're on M3 suspension with ACS bouncy stuff and very wide 17s & the 325 is on a relatively cheap suspension kit with 7.5" 16s.

Yeah I know.. It still feels nose heavier, which isn't all down to chassis..

It sounds like I am hooning your turd about