E30 Zone

What's it like driving an M50'd e30?

A lot better than the theoretical 22 bhp increase would suggest!

Fun..

What kinds of cars can it out accelerate? Is it fast enough to force you back in your seat when accelerating hard?

look on you tube under e30 m50 heaps of stuff there

Seems pretty fat to me

what are the issues involved,ie steering linkage exhaust manny's etc.
what's vanos and none vanos [spelling?]

Think all the issues are covered in here:

http://www.e30zone.net/modules.php?name ... sc&start=0

VANOS is a variable CAM timing system, similar to VTEC but without the kick as it operates throughout the rev range is my understanding.

I was posting this as a "What's an M50'd e30 like to drive thread" instead of the usual "How do you do it" threads to get some opinions from people who have driven an M50'd e30. Don't want to cause offence like, was just wondering what they are like to drive once built and how they compare to other cars.

rossmc88 wrote:What kinds of cars can it out accelerate? Is it fast enough to force you back in your seat when accelerating hard?

Well they run high/mid 14 1/4's to give you an idea..

Cool makes it as fast/faster as/than all these cars, sounds definately worth while anyway.

Audi S4 Cabriolet 14.5s 97mph
Mini Cooper S Works GP 14.5s 98mph
Porsche Cayenne Turbo 14.5s 103mph
Subaru Impreza Turbo 14.5s 95mph
Audi Coupe S2 14.5s 95mph
Mitsubishi 3000 GT 14.5s 93mph
Mazda 3 MPS 14.5s 99mph
BMW 535d E60 14.5s 98mph
Honda Civic Type R JDM 14.6s 98mph
Honda Civic Type R JDM 14.6s 98mph
Alfa Romeo GT 3.2 V6 Lusso 14.6s 98mph
Alfa Romeo 147 GTA 14.6s 99mph
Audi 3.2 Quattro 14.6s 98mph
Dodge Magnum RT 14.6s 97mph
Cadillac CTS 14.6s 97mph
Rolls-Royce Phantom 14.6s 99mph
Fiat Coupe 20v Turbo 14.6s 100mph
Vauxhall Calibra Turbo 14.6s 94mph
Nissan Maxima 3.5 SV 14.6s 98mph
Honda Integra Type R DC5 14.6s 98mph
Renault Megane 230 (F1 R26) 14.6s 98mph
Audi A6 4.2 Quattro 14.6s 96mph
Audi Quattro 20v 14.7s 93mph
Jaguar S Type 4.2 V8 SE 14.7s 98mph
Audi TT 3.2 Quattro 14.7s 94mph
Volkswagen Golf R32 14.7s 97mph
Renault Megane 225 Sport 14.7s 97mph
Porsche 968 14.7s 95mph
Alfa Romeo 156 GTA 14.7s 98mph
Porsche 968 Club Sport 14.7s 98mph
Volvo C30 T5 SE Sport 14.7s 98mph
Subaru Impreza Turbo 14.7s 92mph
Audi S3 14.7s 94mph
Toyota MR2 Turbo Mk2 Rev 1 14.7s 94mph
Mazda RX-8 R3 14.7s 94mph
Audi S5 Cabriolet 14.7s 96mph
Saab 9-3 V6 Aero 14.8s 97mph
Honda Integra Type R DC2 14.8s 95mph
Renault Clio 182 Cup 14.8s 95mph
Chevrolet Cobalt SS 14.8s 97mph
Porsche Boxster 2.5 14.8s 99mph
Ford Focus RS 14.8s 98mph
Acura RDX 14.8s 93mph
Lexus GS430 14.8s 96mph
Renault Renaultsport Megane Trophy 14.8s 96mph
Mini Cooper S John Cooper Works 14.9s 95mph
Bentley Azure 14.9s 102mph
Honda Civic Type R EK9 14.9s 94mph
BMW 540i M Sport E39 14.9s 96mph
Volvo S40 T5 AWD 14.9s 94mph
MG ZT 260 14.9s 94mph
Volvo S60R 14.9s 97mph
Volvo S80 V8 14.9s 96mph
Rover 220 Coupe Turbo 14.9s 95mph
Nissan Maxima SE 14.9s 96mph
Ford Escort RS Cosworth 14.9s 98mph
Seat Leon Cupra R 225 14.9s 96mph
Alfa Romeo Brera 3.2 Q4 JTS 14.9s 95mph
Honda Civic Type R EDM 15.0s 95mph
BMW 740i E37 15.0s 96mph
Ford Focus ST 15.0s 95mph
BMW 750i E38 15.0s 95mph
Pontiac G6 GTP 15.0s 96mp

no better than a good cammed 2.5 M20

rossmc88 wrote:Think all the issues are covered in here:

http://www.e30zone.net/modules.php?name ... sc&start=0

VANOS is a variable CAM timing system, similar to VTEC but without the kick as it operates throughout the rev range is my understanding.

I was posting this as a "What's an M50'd e30 like to drive thread" instead of the usual "How do you do it" threads to get some opinions from people who have driven an M50'd e30. Don't want to cause offence like, was just wondering what they are like to drive once built and how they compare to other cars.

none taken baz,just interested.

my m50 was a good giggle with some schrick sticks and a lairy limiter.. 142in 4th on the autobahn and 350z baiting pace made it a slight bit of a weapon.

As for an M52.. all I will say is, when you think your about to suffer a wheezing twin cam the vanos wakes up and you can feel it really hauling in the horizon.

As for noise? just not the same as an s14!

Simon13 wrote:a bit better than a good cammed 2.5 M20

It took your 2.7 Alpina to get into M50 1/4 miles times..

Some of those cars were fkd, badly driven or it was very wet.

Performance will be governed to some extent by the gearing chosen by the builder.An M50 with a 'short'diff,say a 3.91,will accelerate like a cat on speed but be noisy on the motorway with poor fuel economy.At the other extreme,using a 3.25 or even a 3.09 will give more modest acceleration but benifit from higher 'in gear' speeds and quieter motorway running with better economy.I have noticed already with my conversion that I need to make more use of the gearbox than I do with my 2.7.So Simon13 has a valid point that a tuned M20 is no slower.£ for £,an M50 is possably better value for money when you take into account the true cost of building a quick 2.7 or 2.8 motor.A number of zoners have admitted to spending £3000 building a 2.8 M20,for this sort of money you can not only buy a decent 130/150000 mile M50 and install it,but also refurb the rest of the chassis to cope with it.

SUMPCRACKER wrote:Some of those cars were fkd, badly driven or it was very wet.

Those are times run by new cars in magazines..

Simon13 wrote:no better than a good cammed 2.5 M20

Agreed..


M30 is the way forward.

zaust wrote:

Simon13 wrote:no better than a good cammed 2.5 M20

disagree..


M30 is the way backward.

Mod power to the rescue

I'll bite:
What is a realistic cost to put an M52 into a touring? Engine conversion only, I realise that suspension/brakes etc would add more. This would be dependant on persuading a mate with a garage/lots of tools to do it for beer....

zaust wrote:

Simon13 wrote:no better than a good cammed 2.5 M20

Agreed..


M30 is the way forward.

Old technology.. Heavier, probably running same power.. Still a good conversion, but M50 is the new skool cool

4v/cyl FTW

ITB's FTMF

Morat wrote:I'll bite:
What is a realistic cost to put an M52 into a touring? Engine conversion only, I realise that suspension/brakes etc would add more. This would be dependant on persuading a mate with a garage/lots of tools to do it for beer....

With no labour costs, circa 1/1.5k dependant on your exhaust/manifold solution as good engines still make strong money

What actual times did a 2.5 m50 actually do then?

Off topic: Dan, isn't your s50 in need of some pre ring training, abingdon is at the end of this month... 205 v s50.

Jon_Bmw wrote:What actual times did a 2.5 m50 actually do then?

My personal best with standard non vanos 2.5 was 14.8

An M50B25 has approx 190 bhp/180 lb-ft compared to the M20B25 approx 170 bhp/165lb-ft so there is approx 12% more power and torque and thats it.
The only way it can feel more than this is if the original was shagged or it is geared different................. Look at it another way the E36 325i mass is 1350kg and the E30 325i is 1250kg so its not going to be a lightening quick car. For a 24V swap a B28 as a minimum IMO

m50? is that what's in my e36 318is?

TheHeap wrote:m50? is that what's in my e36 318is?

No,
M50 is the 2.5 (ie,325i/525i)E36/E34)

so what's mine called?

M42

TheHeap wrote:so what's mine called?

M42

TheHeap wrote:so what's mine called?

depends how old it is it could be an m44 1.9 1v engine

ive been a passenger in an m50'ed e30 and i will say they go really well and you can tell the difference from a m20b25 e30

I'd like to add that the 2.5L steel block M50 is 20kg heavier than the M20.
I've driven an M50 with similar BHP to mine on the same dyno, nothing in it speed wise, although better throtttle response and better fuel economy apparantly.
As stated before not really worth swapping to M50 B25 from M20 B25, go M52 B28 with an M50 inlet manifold and chipped to suit, circa 220BHP with the same weight of engine as the M20. Nikasil issues here though, swings and roundabouts. . .

It is less than 20kgs esp once you consider ancillaries..

I have driven a variety of M20B25/27 engined cars and the M50 is much better! Noticeably quicker

An M50 running as it should will plss all over an old boat anchor any day of the week.

As Jhonno said, there is less than 20kg's in it, the web based engine weights are for bare engines which is where the 20kg comes from, plastic inlet Vs cast alloy inlet, tubular exhaust Vs cast iron exhaust etc

I dont recall any M20 coming close to my times at Santa Pod!