E30 Zone

which one m10 m20 m40 (if i have missed any please say so)



i have read that the m10 is better as it is more tuneable

M 20 any day of the week - That is of course my opinion (thank fcuk you changed the subject from rear lights)

M42 318is, i am thinking hard about this engine swap from the M40

and theres the m60, 2.0 and 2.5

And there's the S14 - 320is & M3

and finally the m21 2.4 d and td

If we stick to E30 engines I believe either the M20 or S14 engines are by far the best. Its all down to whether or not you want 4 or 6 cylinders (forgetting the lovely M3 body here)

Also the S14 engine is pretty well fettled where the M20 has (if cash available) a lot of potential for good HP. Look @ some of the 2.7 conversions Bexley's have done.

The problem is anyone with a M3 wont want to put a M20 engine in and to be honest I dont blame them. It wouldn't be an M3 if they did.

I'll stop banging on now!!

Depends what you mean by better.

4 cyl engines are inherently shit becasue they can't be balanced and have massive holes in the power strokage.

Inline 6 engines on the other hand can be perfectly balanced (it's the smallest balancable configuration) and have overlaping torque pulses so it's prectically impossible to stall them and they generalte prodigious torque from idle

jamesroools wrote:and finally the m21 2.4 d and td

dont talkabout diesels on the e30zone mate

24 valve is the way to go mate

rowemeister wrote: Also the S14 engine is pretty well fettled where the M20 has (if cash available) a lot of potential for good HP. Look @ some of the 2.7 conversions Bexley's have done.

Umm you can get a lot more out of an s14 if you want...

Turbo-Brown wrote:Depends what you mean by better.

4 cyl engines are inherently sh*t becasue they can't be balanced and have massive holes in the power strokage.

Inline 6 engines on the other hand can be perfectly balanced (it's the smallest balancable configuration) and have overlaping torque pulses so it's prectically impossible to stall them and they generalte prodigious torque from idle

But a car with a 4pot will handle much better...

anyway my vote goes for the s14 and m10

jamesroools wrote:and theres the m60, 2.0 and 2.5

All the 2.0 and 2.5 engines were either S14 (320is and M3 Evo Sport) or M20 (320i and 325i) weren't they?

aw mate, any one as long as it dosnt clunk and rattle

i wouldnt mind a bullet proof 2.7 m20 with a maf though

jamesroools wrote:and theres the m60, 2.0 and 2.5

M60 is a V8 as I suspected.......don't think any E30s had these as standard unfortunately!

i have a 4 and 6 pot e30. i going for the practical vote as the m40 is so easy and a 'nice' engine to work on.

Lordschleife wrote: But a car with a 4pot will handle much better...

This is actually a myth spread around by people lacking in cylinders In virtually all situations, there is no noticable difference between the handling of a 4 pot and a 6 pot.

A friend of mine has recently fitted an E36 M3 Evo lump in the front of an E30 M3, and finds the car drives just the same as it did with the S14 fitted. The car has also been driven by a number of quite accomplished drivers who also commented that it handles as well as any M3 (road and track).

Ian.

Zayyan wrote:

jamesroools wrote:and theres the m60, 2.0 and 2.5

M60 is a V8 as I suspected.......don't think any E30s had these as standard unfortunately!

The M20 was originally coded M60, but was later changed. BMW then used the M60 code for the later V8's.

Ian.

ian332isport wrote:

Lordschleife wrote: But a car with a 4pot will handle much better...

This is actually a myth spread around by people lacking in cylinders In virtually all situations, there is no noticable difference between the handling of a 4 pot and a 6 pot.

A friend of mine has recently fitted an E36 M3 Evo lump in the front of an E30 M3, and finds the car drives just the same as it did with the S14 fitted. The car has also been driven by a number of quite accomplished drivers who also commented that it handles as well as any M3 (road and track).

Ian.

Sorry but I have to disagree, To say its a myth is clearly bollox, you cant ignore the physics of having all that extra weight in front of the front suspension struts

I've owned both 4 and 6 pot e30's and found the 6 pot ponderous on turn in where as the 4 pot is very sharp
BMW chose a 4 pot in the E30 m3 for a reason, as did Porsche in the 944/968 and those cars are considered some of the best handling ever made

I'm sure if you do a decent conversion you can eliminate some of this, depending on weight of engine used/positioning/suspension setup and of course if you used a flat 6 or v6 instead of a straight 6 then that would bring some weight backwards

But as I say you cant break the laws of physics
On the same lines have you notice the latest trend in car design where they're trying to bring the engines further back in the engine bay?

the only differnce i notice between 6 and 4 pots is in high speed 3rd gear drifting.... which lets face it u dont do everyday...

4 pots are more twitchy also.... 6 pots more stable at speed, but as i said... the neutral balance when in a 4 wheel slide isnt there in an m20 engined car like it would be in something like an m3..... thats all i can say from my limited experience, there is only that one issue!

Karan

there is definatley a difference in how the 318 is and a 325 sport turns in on the bends.bigger engines will always feel a bit more slugish.
the test. pick a nice round about. drive at it in both doing about 50/60 keep the power steady and the 4 pot turns so readyly. i'm not saying the 6 pots are shazbat i love the 6 pot and will always go for 6 pot rightness over a 4 pot. but less wieght means it will turn better.

Karan wrote:the only differnce i notice between 6 and 4 pots is in high speed 3rd gear drifting.... which lets face it u dont do everyday...

4 pots are more twitchy also.... 6 pots more stable at speed, but as i said... the neutral balance when in a 4 wheel slide isnt there in an m20 engined car like it would be in something like an m3..... thats all i can say from my limited experience, there is only that one issue!

Karan

Try throwing the car sharply into a tight roundabout, or doing a quick left/right switch and you should notice the difference.

I'm not saying the 6pots are bad - far from it, just the 4 pots are better from a handling point of view.
Obviously the 6pots have advantages in other areas

Oh and if people still do't believe me then:

325i
Skidpad, lateral g: 0.77
Slalom: 63.7 mph

318is
Skidpad, lateral g: 0.83
Slalom: 64.0 mph

M3
Skidpad, lateral g: 0.82
Slalom, 64.7 mph

Yes the differences are small, but still there and would soon add up through a series of difficult bends

4pot definately feels less fat up front and much prefer the turn in on a good old 4 pot. mind you 6 cylinders sounds good.

at the end of the day all i can afford is four pot

getting back to the original question...

I have read the M10 responds very nicely to turbo charging and is supposed to be pretty bullet proof

its nothing to do with bein 6 pot or 4 pot re handling - its a weight thing you can get heavy 4 pots

but the s14 is actually a pretty heavy 4 pot......

all the E30 engines are good really apart from the M40 which isn't that bad

before u start i've had an M40

the m20 only weighs 11kgs more than the s14... i dont think it'll make that much difference to the handling...

I've actually found now i can drive a bit better that with some good springs and shocks the 6 pot can handle very nicely not as agile but for what it lacks in 1mph corner speed it makes up for on the straights!

E30BeemerLad wrote:getting back to the original question...

I have read the M10 responds very nicely to turbo charging and is supposed to be pretty bullet proof

Am I right in thinking it was the M10 blocks that BMW used in the old F1 cars? Think thiey got about 1500 BHP out of them!!!!!

Also heard that they used to leave them outside to "weather" for a time

S14 has an M10 block too, it was apparently developed off it!

Andy325i wrote:

E30BeemerLad wrote:getting back to the original question...

I have read the M10 responds very nicely to turbo charging and is supposed to be pretty bullet proof

Am I right in thinking it was the M10 blocks that BMW used in the old F1 cars? Think thiey got about 1500 BHP out of them!!!!!

Also heard that they used to leave them outside to "weather" for a time

That's the basic blocks. Think they did one or two mods to them though, and they weren't quite so bulletproof at that sort of power!
Thought the blocks were always used ones, so that they've been relieved of stresses.

so m10 sounds like the better engine what sort of bhp can be acheived from a standard m10?