E30 Zone

This is NOT a joke

Hi guys and girls.

Had this information given to me today by a work colleage, who has actually had this very problem...

Photo Driving Licences only last 10 years, then need renewing... and I - like everyone else - thought they just ran till we got old...

Thousands of motorists face £1,000 fines as photocard driving licences expire. They risk being fined up to £1,000 because they are unknowingly driving without a valid licence.

They risk prosecution after failing to spot the extremely small print on their photocard licence which says it automatically expires after 10 years and has to be renewed - even though drivers are licensed to drive until the age of 70.

The fiasco has come to light a decade after the first batch of photo licences was issued in July 1998, just as the they start to expire.
Motoring organisations blamed the Government for the fiasco and said 'most' drivers believed their licences were for life.



A mock-up driving licence from 1998 when the photocards were launched shows the imminent expiry date as item '4b'

They said officials had failed to publicise sufficiently the fact that new-style licences - unlike the old paper ones - expire after a set period and have to be renewed.

To rub salt into wounds, drivers will have to pay £17.50 to renew their card - a charge which critics have condemned as a 'stealth tax' and which will earn the Treasury an estimated £437million over 25 years.

Official DVLA figures reveal that while 16,136 expired this summer, so far only 11,566 drivers have renewed, leaving 4,570 outstanding.

With another 300,000 photocard licences due to expire over the coming year, experts fear the number of invalid licences will soar, putting thousands more drivers in breach of the law and at risk of a fine.

At the heart of the confusion is the small print on the tiny credit-card-size photo licence, which is used in conjunction with the paper version. Just below the driver name on the front of the photocard licence is a series of dates and details - each one numbered. Number 4b features a date in tiny writing, but no explicit explanation as to what it means.

The date's significance is only explained if the driver turns over the card and reads the key on the back which states that '4b' means 'licence valid to'.

Even more confusingly, an adjacent table on the rear of the card sets out how long the driver is registered to hold a licence - that is until his or her 70th birthday.

A total of 25million new-style licences have been issued but - motoring experts say - drivers were never sufficiently warned they would expire after 10 years.

Motorists who fail to renew their licences in time are allowed to continue driving . But the DVLA says they could be charged with 'failing to surrender their licence', an offence carrying a £1,000 fine.

AA president, Edmund King said: 'It is not generally known that photocard licences expire: there appears to be a lack of information that people will have to renew these licences. People think they have already paid them for once over and that is it. It will come as a surprise to motorists and a shock that they have to pay an extra £17.50.'

The AA called on the Government to use the annual £450million from traffic enforcement fines to offset the renewal charge.

Before photocard licences were introduced, old-style paper licences were valid until the age of 70. Many motorists still believe this to be the case with the new ones.

well i never knew that

they only have one photo on them now too

what did expect your face will change in 10 years wont it so its only to keep it upto date so you look like you say you are

I still have the old paper one and cant be arsed to pay for a new picture one, so they can fuk right off

@ Town, I think the main issue is the fact that this was never particularly made clear.

Had they sent out reminders, like they do for road tax, it probably would't have been so much of an issue

i cant say id payed much attention to my licence but on inspection i see it expires in jully this year. i needed a new one to get all my old expired points off anyway.

Gortour wrote: Before photocard licences were introduced, old-style paper licences were valid until the age of 70. Many motorists still believe this to be the case with the new ones.

I still have a paper licence, I take it there is nothing so say that I must change to a photo one.

So if you pass your test at 17, and continue driving till the age of 67, that,s a grand total of £105 at todays rated. Not too bad all things considered. Like Gordon say,s though, no reminders and not explained very clearly at the time of introduction is a bit off.

u

Cotty wrote:

Gortour wrote: Before photocard licences were introduced, old-style paper licences were valid until the age of 70. Many motorists still believe this to be the case with the new ones.

I still have a paper licence, I take it there is nothing so say that I must change to a photo one.

As do i, but think you will find that you have to have the plastic
version.

Ive still got a paper one too and I aint getting my pants pulled down even more by the DVLA.

Don't THINK there's anything to MAKE you change, but obviously if you send your licence away for any reason, like change of address or maybe points to be put on or taken off, you won't have a choice when it's returned.

Isn't the paper counterpart still valid though?

It's a bit of a bloody cheek if you want my 2 cents. Just another way to gouge the honest motorist.

You can bet this won't be spent on sorting the roads either.

On another note, before you change your paper license to a photo card one, get an
offical copy of it either from dvla or solicitors. There have been many cases where HGV or motorcycle entitlement has been removed. Im not sure if it defaults to standard catagories when they do a photo license, but just be careful...

Cotty wrote:

Gortour wrote: Before photocard licences were introduced, old-style paper licences were valid until the age of 70. Many motorists still believe this to be the case with the new ones.

I still have a paper licence, I take it there is nothing so say that I must change to a photo one.

I think as long as it's still accurate (shows your current address) then it will be fine. If any details change or if you lose it you will automatically be issued a new style one when you apply for a replacement.





I've just checked my license and I'm still valid till October 2010.



Taylor.

i thought there was a cut off date a few years ago where old papers licences had to be replaced with new photocards?

Dunno mate.

Anyone know?

You actually get a reminder approx 3 months before renewal is required, I did this last year as I passed in 98.

I know its £17.50 but its turned around quickly and to be honest pretty straight forward. I think its right to issue the photocards there are too many dodgey and illegal drivers on the roads these days. Think what a mess it would be in this day and age if we all had paper licenses!!!

You have to get the paper part up dated too, if you have to do it send it recorded take copies of old parts.

I am all for the photocard but agree that £17.50 renewal is to much though.

Ah, so there IS a renewal notification then? Didn't know this. The information suggested that there wasn't. Thanks for that GBE.

And agreed re the 10-yearly fine...

Gortour wrote:Ah, so there IS a renewal notification then? Didn't know this. The information suggested that there wasn't. Thanks for that GBE.

I can't be sure everyone gets one though!! I was suprised when it turned up but it was relatively painless (With exception to the £17.50 charge). At least I did not have to pay my doctor anything to counter sign my photo's, this time they trusted me.....lol.

Now thats crazy I think my GP charged me £15 to sign photos back in 98, now that my friends is a sideline!!!!

fuzzy wrote:i thought there was a cut off date a few years ago where old papers licences had to be replaced with new photocards?

Can't find anything to confirm this anywhere, even DVLA's website.
Only problem is with renewing for address change, married name change, points etc, you'll HAVE to have a photo jobbie...

perhaps it was a scare story to encourage folk into changing....

Just as a side note to this, my wife had to send off for her driving licence a couple of months back because she had lost it somehow.

They took all they needed from the details held about her passport, her photograph and signature were just transferred from the information they already hold about her.

GBE30 wrote: Think what a mess it would be in this day and age if we all had paper licenses!!!

Was that a tonge in cheek comment? Paper licences have worked fine for me so far.

My wife has a paper,or old style,licence and it IS valid until she reaches the age of 70,or until we change address,then she will have to transfer to a photo style licence.As I hold both PSV and HGV entitlement and am over the age of 45 I have to re-new my licence every 5 years,mine was re-newed at the end of the last rainy season(sorry,I mean summer) and I could not remember how old the damn photo was so I re-newed that as well took the wonderful DVLA 8 weeks,two phone calls and an email to the top man to get my licence returned.....

fuzzy wrote:i cant say id payed much attention to my licence but on inspection i see it expires in jully this year. i needed a new one to get all my old expired points off anyway.

I like to look at all my points so will not be getting a new licence

Still the old dog eared paper licence for me, expires in 2041

scootlife wrote:On another note, before you change your paper license to a photo card one, get an
offical copy of it either from dvla or solicitors. There have been many cases where HGV or motorcycle entitlement has been removed. Im not sure if it defaults to standard catagories when they do a photo license, but just be careful...

This is just another con, I rang the wankers last week to enquire about getting additional towing categories on my licence, you have to take a TOWING TEST and pay £57 odd for each test category!!!
What a load of boIIocks!!!

i wont worry for a while mine runs out 2016 as had to retake my test last year

Rav335uk wrote:
I like to look at all my points so will not be getting a new licence

Points make prizes!!!

I'm so old I can tow with a lorry and drive a 12 seater minibus on my licence.

Mind you i look like a criminal in the photo.

I still have the old paper jobby, but understood that soon they will all have to be photo licences?

I wish I had a paper licence, much less hassle. All I can say is hang onto your paper ones as long as possible. Photo Driving licences are just ID cards to the government/dvla.

the sneaky bastards! mine expires 19-01-11.... this is another @uck up the ass! bend over and grease it up fellas because there is @uck all you can do about it!.... the @unt$!

I sent my paper away in 04. As said any changes (I was adding a bike test pass) and you have to change to a photo. So you have to get someone to sign a photo Dr, business owner etc. Bit of a faff!

£17.50 is a bit of a pisstake, but it's not like I couldn't see it coming - once they put photos on them it was obvious they would require updating. Frankly I don't look anything like I did when I was 17 anyway, so the thing is already pretty pointless, as is the signature on it. Seems I have to renew mine next year.

On a related topic, if you have to get a replacement photocard/counterpart for any reason other than this - ie lost/damaged, read the small print on the application form carefully. The fees are different depending on what you declare - ensure you tick the box that gets you the documents you require for the lowest fee as they try to catch you out with this. I shan't elaborate, but bear it in mind.

As regards points on your licence, what is the point of having them 'taken off'? As they're only valid for 3 years for bans and 5 years for insurance anyway, what's the harm in having older convictions recorded on the document?