E30 Zone

hi guys,
just a quick question? Was talking to some fella who is a mechanic and he told me that left hand drive model e30's are faster then right hand drive one's because BMW were able to put a bigger manifold in them as there was no steering column to get in the way plus a few other modifications? how true is this or is it rubbish?

cheers

haha, pure bullsh!t me thinks...


They are better to drive and are much better balanced though and all the parts are designed primarily for LHD such as the engine tilting to the right, the battery and all the misc stuff on the right of the car.

The tank having the heavy part on the right, eve down to the lights default setting for LHD

There's a page in the owners manual too that has something about this too that Rob told me about the other day. Think it's page 100 but I haven't looked at it yet...

Isn't it true that M3's converted to right hand drive lose a little power due to the exhaust manifold alterations needed to make it fit? Maybe if so this is what the fella means?

Yeap sure is julio!

If we are talking m20's here. There are two different manifold designs, the left hookers have two 3 branch logs that join onto the system whereas the UK cars have a single 6 branch log manifold.

If you could feel the difference I would be amazed.

Jon_Bmw wrote:Yeap sure is julio!

SPADGE wrote:Isn't it true that M3's converted to right hand drive lose a little power due to the exhaust manifold alterations needed to make it fit? Maybe if so this is what the fella means?

im sure that is exactly what he's on about. But im sure he was going on about all the e30's not just the m3's??

RHD do suffer from memory, but its only a few bhp.

BUT they do brake better (well, pretty much any lhd e30 does!) No linkage bar to flex or bell cranks to go sloppy.

My old man said his M5 tourer had slightly more power because it was left hooker.

Flozman wrote:My old man said his M5 tourer had slightly more power because it was left hooker.

Than what? What model is it?

Does everybodys left front wheel lock up way too much too before the rest?
Wonder would a lefty have better brake bias...

I can see how the M3 would suffer alright but surely BMW cared about us non-germans a little bit more than just slapping on any old manifold to clear a RHD column

Apparently, if you take a dump before getting into your iS you can give it 0.0001Hp/ton more

LHD/RHD? How often do you actually drive your car to the limit where such differences can be felt (brakes apart)?

its like me folding down the touring rear seats to lower the centre of gravity

Jon_Bmw wrote:Yeap sure is julio!

This has not been proven, in fact there is little if any evidence of a power loss on a s14 when the manifold is changed to a RHD configuration.

There are 'some' that still think that there is no point in going for a big bore EvoII/SE manifold as there are no gains to be had there! This is not what i Believe but if that were true then going to RHD would certainly not cause any power loss at all!

A

I understand it makes more of a difference when you are using non-standard exhaust manifolds, you can use a much straighter one on a left-hooker as it doesn't have to negotiate the column. II think that this is why LHD e36 M3s are preferred for racing, not so sure about e30s though.

My left hooker saloon was a more confident drive that my current RHD touring, as the handling and brakes were better. Not that the touring is at all bad mind you. Being both 325's, the power was more or less equal TBH ( pre zone chip !! )

Andrew, did Birds or whoever modify the manifolds at all. If so, did it alter the outer skin only or was it the actual flow tubes that were changed?

Yours is obviously a right hooker and it makes great power, what manifold have you got sir?

I’ve got two cars the same, 325´s one lhd and one right and I would say that the lhd does feel quicker and revs a lot better than the rhd version.
As for figures it’s going to be nothing in it but the car does feel a lot better with the different exhaust manifold.
And as for the M3 the manifold does make quite a difference to the car so the rhd conversion must affect it some!
When I had my car in Germany I had various exhaust manifolds and exhaust systems that I fiddled with over the years rally, Group A standard there must be a good 4 or 5 different ones and the one that I found best was the DTM version with the longer primaries and then down in to a y pipe so although I have driven a rhd M3 but not in direct comparison I would say that a rhd conversion must make a difference in torque at least

LHD also have a better seating position. Im ofset with my legs to the right, and the wheel to my left. Next time you sit in the RHD E30, have a look. Your feet will be angled right and the wheel will be aiming to your left shoulder opposed to aiming for your chest if it was all centred.

LHD drive better, look better, feel better, don't rust, don't leak, don't breakdown, use less fuel, pollute less and even make you coffee when you ask for it through the iOBC...

Why do you keep driving on the wrong side of the road???

bramley wrote:

Flozman wrote:My old man said his M5 tourer had slightly more power because it was left hooker.

Than what? What model is it?

E34, more power than the RHD E34 M5.

oze30 wrote:LHD also have a better seating position. Im ofset with my legs to the right, and the wheel to my left. Next time you sit in the RHD E30, have a look. Your feet will be angled right and the wheel will be aiming to your left shoulder opposed to aiming for your chest if it was all centred.

Your just a spaz Col

LHD drive better, look better, feel better, don't rust, don't leak, don't breakdown, use less fuel, pollute less and even make you coffee when you ask for it through the iOBC...

Point exactly and thats why its criminal to convert an M3 to RHD because all you end up with is a slightly less torquey car with less brake pedal feel and a slower less refined steering rack all the good things about an M3!
Might as well get some cheap fibre glass arches and stick them on a 325!
And it true about european cars not rusting as much either!

my mate has a E39 M5 ..Alpina version..limited edition of some sort ...only 100 made or somthing..is by far one off the fastest cars ive ever been in... guess what.........left hooker....

better then that theres a story behind it..the last owner bought it, garaged it, then died...his wife was selling it for £750.....yes £750....not £7500.....with under 30,000 on the clock.... he paid her way more than that though, to be honest to a widow, but way under the value,,,thinks its up for sale again now

dannyboy759 wrote:LHD drive better, look better, feel better, don't rust, don't leak, don't breakdown, use less fuel, pollute less and even make you coffee when you ask for it through the iOBC...

Point exactly and thats why its criminal to convert an M3 to RHD because all you end up with is a slightly less torquey car with less brake pedal feel and a slower less refined steering rack all the good things about an M3!
Might as well get some cheap fibre glass arches and stick them on a 325!
And it true about european cars not rusting as much either!

I dont believe any of this, have you ever owned a RHD M3 and a LHD one? This is just the typical Internet myth bull!

dont believe any of this, have you ever owned a RHD M3 and a LHD one? This is just the typical Internet myth bull!

It’s not a myth at all ive had 2 E30 M3´s and a mate had a RHD one, he was never in to cars like I have been but even he said that the LHD car that I had was so much more responsive.
Not only that Ive had every engine and configuration of E30 apart from a diesel most of which have been LHD due to being in Germany 15 years and LHD cars are without a doubt better, end of discussion!
Just out of interest how many LHD E30´s have you had and I bet you’ve got a RHD M3 but never had a LHD one!

Different cars a[art, LHD E30's feel more centralised than the RHD ones. Ergonomically speaking, they are better as they were designed as a LHD car.

Look at the Jepp Cherokee. Pacerpete has a woody (hey hey!!) and that is RHD using a chain setup and not a rack. Very odd but effective. Think bike chain setup/ the steering wheel turns a cog with chain which in turn connects to the steering column (LESS FIREWALL TO DRIVER PART) oops) then that turns the wheels.

oze30 wrote:Different cars a[art, LHD E30's feel more centralised than the RHD ones. Ergonomically speaking, they are better as they were designed as a LHD car.

Look at the Jepp Cherokee. Pacerpete has a woody (hey hey!!) and that is RHD using a chain setup and not a rack. Very odd but effective. Think bike chain setup/ the steering wheel turns a cog with chain which in turn connects to the steering column (LESS FIREWALL TO DRIVER PART) oops) then that turns the wheels.

All 3 of my grand wagoneers are proper LHD . The equivalent RHD cherokee chiefs and wagoneers that were sold here in the 70's did indeed use a 'bike chain' in a sealed box to transfer steering control from left to right.
This was a fairly common way of doing it in the 70's, indeed my '80 alpina B7 turbo , one of 2 RHD had a bike chain left to right conversion !

Oops! Was half right!

But the ergonomics of the LHD is better than in the RHD. Nuff said.

dannyboy759 wrote:

dont believe any of this, have you ever owned a RHD M3 and a LHD one? This is just the typical Internet myth bull!

It’s not a myth at all ive had 2 E30 M3´s and a mate had a RHD one, he was never in to cars like I have been but even he said that the LHD car that I had was so much more responsive.
Not only that Ive had every engine and configuration of E30 apart from a diesel most of which have been LHD due to being in Germany 15 years and LHD cars are without a doubt better, end of discussion!
Just out of interest how many LHD E30´s have you had and I bet you’ve got a RHD M3 but never had a LHD one!

One car is hardly a sample size you can base a conclusion from! ive driven more E30 M3's than you've probably seen and no two cars are the same, so to say that your friends RHD one was less 'responsive' is just anecdotal, simply because there are too many factors to consider when an engine is less responsive!

Until you can bring some facts, i simply cannot take on board that a RHD S14 has less power/torque/response (or what ever you want to say it is less of) there is nothing out there to prove what you are saying.

I bet you’ve got a RHD M3 but never had a LHD one!

Bet again. FYI i have both.

Andrew

I don't think that 5 bhp would be a noticable difference in performance...

Agreed theres not a lot in it but as for putting facts and figure on it, you just cant!

Until you can bring some facts, i simply cannot take on board that a RHD S14 has less power/torque/response (or what ever you want to say it is less of) there is nothing out there to prove what you are saying.

If you want facts and figures a RHD car has the brake master cylinder further away from the driver which does make a difference to the feel, which im sure the closer you can get it to the pedal the better.
Also the Lhd manifold does flow better, fact if it didnt BMW would just make the one type and use it on all the cars
same for the 325!
And.....a RHD converted M3 uses a 325 steering rack which is a different ratio to the M3, and not as quick, so add all this together and like i said most of the good points about the M3 have been subdued, brakes and steering and theres no more agument!
To be fair the average driver wouldnt notice and all in all there nothing in it really but if we are going to nit pick and we are!!
The LHD car is better as are the Alpina E30´s and any E30 for that matter.

Not internet Bull huh? Why is that you’ve not mentioned anything else thats wrong with a RDH conversion except the most commonly spoke about myths? You’ve just regurgitated the normal rubbish thats been cycling around the internet for years. (Who ever made it up needs shot.)

Ok, since you’ve stated the 'facts' its only fair i respond.

1. Brakes - using a E34 connection rod makes a RHD car have the same brake feel as a LHD FACT

2. I have two RHD Manifolds which are identical to the LHD ones in every possible way (that would affect flow). The primaries are identical length and the same diameter, the secondary’s are identical length and the same diameter. Before i got all my headers coated they were flowed and there was ZERO difference between the two FACT. (just saying BMW made one type and not the other without actual data means nothing) Just to add to this, i know people who have shimmed engine mounts to save on the costs of a RHD Manifold on a M3 so according to you it would automatically flow less, YES?

3. You can fit a basic 316i rack from a E36 to get the same feel as a E30 M3 rack and if you wanted something a little quicker there are many Racks to choose from that fit onto a E30/M3.

Like i said before get me some figures and ill consider what you’re saying.

A

I shimmed my mount to clear my steering. It still doesn't clear it, but it's better. i can turn right and Left but not for much before it locks.

Brakes - using a E34 connection rod makes a RHD car have the same brake feel as a LHD FACT

BUT The master cylinder is still on the other side of the car DUH!
And i know an upgrade even for an M3 is to fit an E36 steering rack the fact is that the RHD conversions that were done used 325 racks and nothing to do with E36´s
Ok if you were top do one yourself then you could use an E36 rack!
I cant be arsed to argue anymore its just petty, all i know is Id prefere a LHD M3 over a right, it personal opinion which one you prefer!

dannyboy759 wrote:Point exactly and thats why its criminal to convert an M3 to RHD because all you end up with is a slightly less torquey car with less brake pedal feel and a slower less refined steering rack all the good things about an M3! Might as well get some cheap fibre glass arches and stick them on a 325!
And it true about european cars not rusting as much either!

dannyboy759 wrote:I’ve got two cars the same, 325´s one lhd and one right and I would say that the lhd does feel quicker and revs a lot better than the rhd version.

dannyboy759 wrote:To be fair the average driver wouldnt notice and all in all there nothing in it really but if we are going to nit pick and we are!!

You're an above average driver then?

dannyboy759 wrote:

Brakes - using a E34 connection rod makes a RHD car have the same brake feel as a LHD FACT

BUT The master cylinder is still on the other side of the car DUH!

Sorry to but in, but how does this make a difference, the M/C on the other side I mean?