E30 Zone

..or is it already?

Ignoring the M3's, Schnitzer's & Alpina's for the moment because the more desirable, rare ones will always be appriciated.

How about the Is's, Sports & even standard 325's. if kept in 'nearly-new' condition, can they be used to hold money (as an investment)?

Example: buy a half-decent one for £1500-£2, spend £1k on it over a year, wll I be ulosing money - Or have a got the whole 'classic' status wrong in my head?

M3 is a classic, no question. Will an E30 in any other form be a classic? hard to say. Sports are attracting a premium but whether that is going to last - who can say. I think the classic market is far too picky to elevate a whole range to classic status. Collectors only want the very best, especially if the basic car was mass market to begin with.

I would predict that E30s will continue to be crashed, trashed and broken at an accelerating rate as the last mainstream enthusiasts cannibalise the survivors for spares. At some point the cost of spares will rise so that E30s are no longer fun cheap motoring and they will fall off the radar. Then only people with cash and a real enthusiasm for the model will still be in the game and it is the prices that these people are prepared to pay that will decide whether E30s in general get the status of a true classic that someone from outside the "scene" will regard as a good place to put some money.

My personal prediction would be that Sports, Msport Cabs and possibly other cabs are the only models with a chance of joining the M3 - and they'll never be worth M3 money.

Which is silly because we all know that Tourings are best:)

The E30 in my opinion, and many others, is already a classic, and has achieved decent retro status too. I could chat more on it, but can't be bothered

E30'S ARE HOLDING THEIR VALUE and have the not quite rational desirability that is the hall mark of classics, they also have a much larger following than most classics. So if you define classic as an old car that has a fond place in peoples hearts then the e30 is a classic more so than many. however if you define classic in the stricter way as a seminal car then only the m3 really qualifies.

the M3 is one of the few cars that was a classic since it's launch. Sports command a premium a;ways have always will.

What won't be a classic is a 4 door 318i auto, only the nice stuff!

The trouble with ths kind of debate is defining what 'classic' means. In terms of investment, there are actually very few cars that will appreciate ahead of maintenance costs and thereby leave an owner in credit over the life of ownership. These sorts of cars I would suggest start at £30k plus, and even then they are a very risky thing to do with your money if that is the sole motivation.

Perhaps the real question is, 'have e30 values bottomed out?', and I would suggest that they have - they can only go up from here. It would seem that cars that have been cost-effectively maintained and used as daily drivers from new are now getting seriously tired, so well kept cars are already at a tangible premium. This situation will only become more and more extreme as the worst cars are pilfered for parts and crushed.

I'd like to think e30s are running a few years behind things like mkIII Capris and mkI/mkII Golf GTIs, which have already seen values harden as 80s nostalgia takes hold.

As ever with cars, buy what you like, and cross your fingers that it won't cost you too much.

The E30 is a 'Classic' end of. Simply choosing which model M3, 323, 324 or the 320is is not a fair comparison imo.
Yes these are very collectable cars and rare, but every model in the entire range E30 is a classic.

hubble wrote:The E30 is a 'Classic' end of. Simply choosing which model M3, 323, 324 or the 320is is not a fair comparison imo.
Yes these are very collectable cars and rare, but every model in the entire range E30 is a classic.

I agree, but it's always a thorny subject, everyone seems to have their own criteria!

djk wrote:As ever with cars, buy what you like, and cross your fingers that it won't cost you too much.

I've said this before and will say it again, a lot of people buy these cars and expect to run them on a shoe-string budget. IMO you can't do that and inevitably you get what you pay for.

You have to keep on top of them if you want to maintain them to an acceptable standard.

I've spent the Kings ransom on parts, servicing etc over the years to keep my car in first class running order. Some people have called me insane, but at the end of the day it's my passion and love the car.

hubble wrote:I've said this before and will say it again, a lot of people buy these cars and expect to run them on a shoe-string budget. IMO you can't do that and inevitably you get what you pay for.

You have to keep on top of them if you want to maintain them to an acceptable standard.

x2.
It never ceases to amaze me that people buy a 20 year old car for peanuts and expect it to run forever with no outlay. "I need tyres but I can't afford new ones, so can someone sell me some used ones cheap?" (Yes, that was actually posted here) WTF is that all about??? If you can't afford to run a car, buy a push-bike!

hubble wrote: I've spent the Kings ransom on parts, servicing etc over the years to keep my car in first class running order. Some people have called me insane, but at the end of the day it's my passion and love the car.

Me too. If you look after your car, it will look after you. I've been called insane or similar, but I don't drink or smoke these days. My car is not only my transport, it's my hobby.

..... And to answer the original question, the E30 is already a classic. Doesn't matter which model, it's the basic concept and the shape which define it. OK, so the M3 may be slightly different but don't forget E30 was already over 3 years old by the time the M3 appeared.

To me, a classic is a car that people aspire or aspired (when new) to own. Hence the meastro and montego will never get there! The e30 IS a classic now. Just look at Total BMW this month and they're pitching the new 1 series convertible against a WLN Sebring Grey Motorsport cab. Last paragraph goes something like "Will the 1 series become as collectable as the e30?" or something along those lines (read it in Tescos this morning ).

So as Si says the M3 was a classic straight off like the Audi Quattro UR, the lesser e30's are now geting there.

Think about it this way. In 1988, a 1968 1600E Cortina was deemed a classic (as was a 1970's Stag). So why isn't a 1988 325i a classic now in 2008???????

B7 wrote:So why isn't a 1988 325i a classic now in 2008???????

IMHO it is!

Always an interesting debate this

I'll give an example:

Back in 1990 I bought for £195 a 1977 Yamaha FS1E,now at the time,it had that E30 appeal,you either loved it or just thought it was a decent older moped. It wouldn't have been described as a classic moped as it was mass produced and every Tom Dick & Harry had one in the 70's,I thought differently though,I knew this would be a classic.
18 years later,I still have it,they are exceptionally sought after now, especially original,unrestricted pre'77 models which mine is
In it's current state which is in need of resto,I could still see £500 for it,and if it was fully restored to showroom condition,i'd see £3000 for it.

Point is,at the time I bought it it was 13 years old,it had a bit of a following and you could pick up them frequently for a couple hundred quid,and they would also be broken up just as quickly for parts.The parts now,for originals have a hefty premium attatched to them,for example petrol tank badges which are nothing elaborate,just plastic embossed,a pair will set you back £150,and to think mine are just sat in a jar in the shed!

In 18 years,whats my Touring going to be worth

Those of us that believe the E30 is a classic will be the winners in the long term, if we hang on to them,all we need to do is amass spare parts and let the non believers break up lots and raise the E30 classic level for us.

IMO

Look at 2 door Mk1 Escorts now, even the bog standard ones are going for crazy money. It might not seem like it now, but given long enough E30s will be the same.

It seems to me that people are defining a classic car by how much it will fetch on the open market.
Thats not my definition. Have owned my 86 325i cab for two years now, the longest i,ve ever kept a car, and right now i can,t see myself ever selling it. It needs a bit of body work and a respray, which is going to cost best part of 2k, so that,s what it will be getting even though the money could be ( arguably) better spent elsewhere.
To me thats the price you pay for owning a classic.

StuBeeDoo wrote:"I need tyres but I can't afford new ones, so can someone sell me some used ones cheap?" (Yes, that was actually posted here) WTF is that all about??? If you can't afford to run a car, buy a push-bike! [/color]

LOL Yes That's a typical post!. Agreed Stu on all your other remarks

hubble wrote:

djk wrote:As ever with cars, buy what you like, and cross your fingers that it won't cost you too much.

I've said this before and will say it again, a lot of people buy these cars and expect to run them on a shoe-string budget. IMO you can't do that and inevitably you get what you pay for.

You have to keep on top of them if you want to maintain them to an acceptable standard.

I've spent the Kings ransom on parts, servicing etc over the years to keep my car in first class running order. Some people have called me insane, but at the end of the day it's my passion and love the car.

I agree totally - I realise now that what I wrote reads like 'don't spend any money on your car' - I meant 'as prepared as you are, any car can always bring unforseeable costs, so you just have to hope you'll be lucky'

There is something just special about the E30 something I fail to find in other cars. Perhaps it's the character?
People often ask me if I'll ever sell it. Who knows. I doubt very much I would, but I'll go out on a limb here and say I don't think I'll ever quite find a car like this again. Not just the looks, but the whole package.

djk wrote:

hubble wrote:

djk wrote:As ever with cars, buy what you like, and cross your fingers that it won't cost you too much.

I've said this before and will say it again, a lot of people buy these cars and expect to run them on a shoe-string budget. IMO you can't do that and inevitably you get what you pay for.

You have to keep on top of them if you want to maintain them to an acceptable standard.

I've spent the Kings ransom on parts, servicing etc over the years to keep my car in first class running order. Some people have called me insane, but at the end of the day it's my passion and love the car.

I agree totally - I realise now that what I wrote reads like 'don't spend any money on your car' - I meant 'as prepared as you are, any car can always bring unforseeable costs, so you just have to hope you'll be lucky'

I wasn't having a go fella Just wanted to air a few points

the top of the range m3 is regarded as classic by many inside and outside the bmw scene but others in the range such as sports seem to only be regarded as classics by those in the e30 scene. people outside of e30's and often many within often seem to confuse all 325's as being sports.
its much like ford cosworths,(not again ) that car itself is a classic but the sierra 1.8 certainly isnt.
and simply being old doesnt nessesarily mean classic or good.
its the guys that spend fortunes on mods,bodykits or tuning but dont maintain or service their cars properly that make me laugh.

It may or may not be a 'classic' yet but mark my words the price of e30's is on the up and will continue that way.
ROC - Correct the once worthless 2 door and 4 door bog standard mark 1 and 2 Scorts once worthless turds are now fetching stupid money as will the E30.

The E30 325i, M3 and cabriolet now appear in Practical Classics magazine's price guide, so officially these can be considered classics. If only they would list the Sport as a separate model from the boggo 325i

According to my insurance company the 325i touring already is a classic!

SPADGE wrote:It may or may not be a 'classic' yet but mark my words the price of e30's is on the up and will continue that way.
ROC - Correct the once worthless 2 door and 4 door bog standard mark 1 and 2 Scorts once worthless turds are now fetching stupid money as will the E30.

Agreed, E30's are the new Mk1/Mk2 Escorts.

No an E30 is not a classic in the term of what you can describe a classic car. A Classic car is a Jaguar E-type or an old Lotus Cortina or most of the cars who was made in the old days before 1980. The Germans have a good word for it "old" cars from the 80s and early 90s and that word is: "Youngtimer"
So for me, the all the E30s are Youngtimers, even a 4-door 318 with an M10 engine

too manys e 30s are still owned by joe bloggs and there for are not classics . i mean how many ecsorts are owned by people who drive them every day to the shops very few . even to compare is daft just drive to any large town and you will see e30 driven by fat bearded blokes and ladies with fags sticking out of ther bottom lips . thats how we a few can buy a e30 for say 150 to 300 quid and scrap it too many still around .

So whats wrong with fat bearded blokes?
Sounds the perfect description for a concours bufty to me!
Won't be long before all these cars have dried up imo.

to true spadge still they keep on coming 318i touring in alpine white 2 mths mot 1 mths tax all preasant and correct 200 quid now thats a classic

M3's yes classic status it's the recognised model, alpina and hartge's have always been sort after and in a retro ride way they are classics in the same respect.
325i sports I dont think have the same place nor is' or others to have real classic car status they are still just an old BM.
Obviously there is no answer to this question because it's opinion based and for that reason alone this is a completely pointless topic

In 1969 I bought a brand new Mk 1 1600 Escort - to this day it remains the biggest pile of shit i have ever owned

Everyones perception is different, but to me a well specced E30 323i is just as much a classic as an M3 or Alpina and is a far rarer animal.

I think the 318is in particular, 325i Sport and 325i Tourer are not far behind once all the ropey examples have been removed from the road.

Once the knackered rot boxes have gone and the average joe blogs does nt want to pay a mot bill more than the cars values, the prices will rise very quickly.

Classic, almost but not quite.

too manys e 30s are still owned by joe bloggs and there for are not classics . i mean how many ecsorts are owned by people who drive them every day to the shops very few . even to compare is daft just drive to any large town and you will see e30 driven by fat bearded blokes and ladies with fags sticking out of ther bottom lips . thats how we a few can buy a e30 for say 150 to 300 quid and scrap it too many still around .

12 years ago when I first started driving you could have said exactly the same about the Mk1 and Mk2 Escort ( I know mentioned to death already ) there was still bucket loads of them about owned by "joe bloggs" easy to pick one up for cheap money. 12 years later you have people paying some serious money for what ever they can get there hands on. Its not even that all the people want the RS2000 and Mexicos they just want a clean shell to do there thing with. The E30 will be the same along with plenty of other cars from the 80's and 90's its just a matter of time. I think even the most basic 4 pot E30 will go for good money in time to come, it will be as wanted and sort after like a 1.1 Mk1/2 escort.

The E30 will be a classic, Im sure of it.

Lets say its all about money for a moment.

Pickup a clean 4 pot e30 now, pay £1000 for example.

I can't ever see someone paying any more than £3000 in 15 years time, can you? I most certainly wouldn't be holding out on 4 pot e30s to make me a fortune! A paperound would be a better bet

The m3, alpina, hartges and maybe sports will be the ones where a small amount of money could be made. I think the inherent problems with sport bodykits and rust issues will kill most off, so the few that remain 'might' be worth something.

The M3 is the classic. Its all about build numbers and desirability. Simeraly, buy a z3m coupe now and I don't reckon you'll lose a penny, bar maintenance. As more of these end backwards in ditches, the more money you'll claw back from your maintenance outlays.