E30 Zone

Hey guys, as im pretty new to the e30's, and have found out that they can be tricky in the wet.......im not the most experienced driver, and want to learn how to drive the damn thing safely! obviously just goin slow would be the easiest answer, but want to learn how to control it if things start goin sideways/backwards/completely effin wrong. does anyone know of anywhere in the south (near salisbury, southampton, portsmouth, bournemouth etc) where i could perhaps do this? like an old airfield etc? i dont want to be shi**ing myself everytime i go round a corner in the wet!
sandbags in the boot?
cheers guys
Ben

industrial estate at 3 in the morning on a sunday is the cheapest and easiest but possibly not the greatest idea! i have driven old RWDs since i was seventeen never had a FWD car and all i did was take it real slow at first, u will learn it with time, dont worry

Castle Coombe do a skid control course for about £70 and it used to be in an E30 but that was about 2 years ago might be different now.

I hear what you're saying though my E30 is my first car and it's caught me out before. I was going around a roundabout in the wet, gave it a bit too much accelerator and ended up backwards in a hedge! It was ok though because i started her back up and drove home with a few extra snails on the boot!!

Good luck

Just drive very slow at first, then you'll learn day by day.

Gibson wrote:industrial estate at 3 in the morning on a sunday is the cheapest and easiest but possibly not the greatest idea! i have driven old RWDs since i was seventeen never had a FWD car and all i did was take it real slow at first, u will learn it with time, dont worry

Defo industrial estate at early morning hours. Lots of space and nobody going about.

hammoj28 wrote:

Gibson wrote:industrial estate at 3 in the morning on a sunday is the cheapest and easiest but possibly not the greatest idea! i have driven old RWDs since i was seventeen never had a FWD car and all i did was take it real slow at first, u will learn it with time, dont worry

Defo industrial estate at early morning hours. Lots of space and nobody going about.

yep-this is always a winner.

just dont get somewhere with lampposts or kerbs in the carparks

There are a few light gravel car parks/ plain tarmac on the salisbury plain. You should be ok for about 20 minutes before the MOD come and move you on.

There is a place near Tishead which is quite good, google earth is your friend.

Park and Ride car park make a good place to try , as on a sunday morning noone will be about ( no bus service ) and they will be far enoughg away from any where to cause any disturbence.

nice thinking felix!

One piece of advice I got when I was a kid was "If its all going wrong and you know you're going to crash - stand on the brakes. Even if you lock up you'll be better off crashing at 30 instead of 50". I reckon its good advice and has saved me in the past.

Seems a sound bit of advice that does!

Start slow, and like the guys have said just find a car park somewhere near you on a sunday morning or something.

Get used to it in the dry first (not saying don't go out in the wet, just don't boot it about!), cos it WILL catch you out, and then once you are comfortable with it, just take it up in stages, it will come with time.

I would be surprised if everybody on here hadn't ended up backwards or in some bushes at some point!

By the way what engine is it?

One good thing to try to get use to the back end going is make a big circle of traffic cones and keep going round slowly building up speed untill you lose the back. You will learn the feel of it close to the edge , on the edge and too late.

I spund my previous BMW's before but after a short while you get the feel for the car and will not be so paranoid about spinning it

I seem to remember being told that in the dry that locking up the brakes is as quick(well almost) as being on the point of locking up. The disadvantage is that you cannot turn obviously but it will certainly help you scrub off most of your speed. Only when you come to grass(shouldn't happen in an industrial estate ) should you ease off in case it digs in(again if going sidweays).

Take it easy.

I've been caught out in the wet a couple of times, not really driving fast.

For a bit of safety, drop the psi in the rear tyres, should help you a little.

^^^

don't lower your tyre pressures just run what is recommended by the manufacturer.

Find a gravel car park in enjoy .

Lots of fun at low speed and no tyre wear

I used an industrial estate car park after I got caught out in the wet and killed 2 bottletops a few months after I passed my test. I now like to think I'd be able to cope with it better, but I still don't chuck it into corners cos I think I can deal with it.

id say practicing in a large car park in the wet would be better as the car will slide easier and at slower speed than when dry. will give you a chance to get used to it first. i reckon that when it starts to go slamming on the brakes is the worst thing to do as it upsets the balance causing you to spin out of control.gental easing of allows the car to correct itself.

best way I reckon is drive like an idiot off road & out the way of anybody else & get a feel for it. You might need a few ££ for some new rear tyres though - but it will be worth it! A track day & an hours lesson is the next step

Jon_Bmw wrote:I seem to remember being told that in the dry that locking up the brakes is as quick(well almost) as being on the point of locking up.

your mates talking tut, a tyre cant do its job if its standing still. the only time you should lock the brakes is when you're past the point of no return and you want to slide in a straight line to avoid something. a completely sideways car will go in a straight line if you're wheels are locked so bear that in mind when your heading for lamp-posts. i'd know dude, had my worst moment going up clay hill at oulton park in the wet in my formula ford, decided to try it flat out in qualy, aquaplaned, spun at silly mph, i stamped on the brakes at the right moment while the car was spinning and the car just continued to spin in a line about 1 ft away from the armcoe and onto the grass. had i tried to correct it i would have pendulum'd into the wall

e30's shouldnt be "tricky in the wet", mine isnt anyway, far from it. if your having scary moments you're either going to fast or your tyres are shite or there's something up with your suspension. i know you want advice on how to get better and you've got some good advice but if your car's that nervous i'd say theres something amiss.

I'm only young but i realised pretty quick that the car shouldn't ever 'catch you out'

The back end wont ever let go unless provoked. Be that by stamping on the throttle going round a roundabout or hitting corners to fast.

In the dry you should always get a bit of tyre squeal before anything starts to let go as long as you are driving smoothly.

In the wet the limits are reached a lot quicker and with less warning, but as has allready been said before. Find yourself a nice large expanse of tarmac, and go and throw the car around a little when it's dark and wet.

Tight circles getting faster, a little gentle lane changing, and just for fun corner tightly and kick the clutch, see what she does.

You'll soon start to figure out what she can take, and what to do when she cant take no more.

And remember, never hit a corner to quickly when there is any chance of someone coming the other way!
Expect a flock of sheep or a conbine harvester!
Slow in Fast Out of corners!

Cheers
Chris

fuzzy wrote:id say practicing in a large car park in the wet would be better as the car will slide easier and at slower speed than when dry. will give you a chance to get used to it first. i reckon that when it starts to go slamming on the brakes is the worst thing to do as it upsets the balance causing you to spin out of control.gental easing of allows the car to correct itself.

You're right, don't stamp on the brakes if you start to lose control but when a crash looks inevitable.

Morat wrote:

fuzzy wrote:id say practicing in a large car park in the wet would be better as the car will slide easier and at slower speed than when dry. will give you a chance to get used to it first. i reckon that when it starts to go slamming on the brakes is the worst thing to do as it upsets the balance causing you to spin out of control.gental easing of allows the car to correct itself.

You're right, don't stamp on the brakes if you start to lose control but when a crash looks inevitable.

no! if your headed for a lamp-post or wall stamping on the brakes and locking up is the worst thing you can do! you'll have no steering and you'll be slowing down slower than with good controlled braking. locking the brakes is a good tactic when you've got a 'tank slapper' on and theres lots of obstacles on a particular side, say if there was a post on the left looming and the car is lunge-ing left and right, wait until it lunges right then lock the brakes and you'll spin nicely away from the post. i made the mistake of not doing this and trying to correct a very fast 'tank slapper' in my merc 190, it got more and more severe and BANG! banana'd it round a post, if i'd have stamped on the brakes at the right moment i would have got away with a spin

You can always bring up weird situations where the correct action is to hold an 85mph drift with the handbrake and reverse gear or some such voodoo but I'm talking about playing the odds in the face of an accident. The sad truth is that some people die because they try and drive their cars out of situations which are unrecoverable. Most E30s are equipped with ABS so if you're about to crash, stand on the brakes and get as much energy out of the crash as you can.

A good example of it happening to me was when I spun my last touring. I hit a bend going (in retrospect) 10-20mph too fast. It's a road I used to commute over so I knew it like the back of my hand but in this case the farm entrance had been in use for lifting sugarbeet. The farmer had cleared up as best he could but it was damp and there was a thin skim of mud all over the road. So, there I was in a tree lined corner, too fast and the back was coming round. I COULD have tried to hero it and opposite lock, hold the slide and drive it out. The truth was that with an open diff, 50-60mph on the clock on a barely two lane road and trees in every window my best option was to stand on the ABS while I still had some road to use and wait for the bang.

That is exactly what I did. I hit the brakes at about 45 degrees of spin (I didn't think I'd get it back). The car kept spinning but managed to slow itself pretty well before I bounced up the inside verge backwards. At that point I was unlucky because I managed to rear end a telegraph pole, smash the rear bumper, bend the rear slam panel and break the rear glass. At least it kept me out of the ditch. I was able to drive that car away and I was uninjured all because I only hit the pole at something like jogging speed. What would have happened if I'd hit that same pole at 50mph sideways? Or a tree headon at 60?

So there is a judgement to be made. Experience of how to handle your car will definitely help you decide. If you want to be a safe driver, learn how to handle your car on the limit, learn where the limits are, and learn what you can recover and what you cannot. Then you'll know when to be a hero and when to just brake and brace. (Oh, and keep your seatbelt tight!)

Oh, if you haven't got ABS, get it. Or learn how to be a really good cadence braker under extreme stress.

ABS...my current french barge may have its many faults but one redeeming feature is ABS...something im sure ill miss when i get back into the E30.....

ABS ? when your going sideways

I give up

Jut get yourself an anchor on a thick bungee and throw it out of the window at the first sign of trouble.

ABS i general, not neccesaraly in the context of going sideways...just for stopping better.

Well, tis a 318is. only got it recently i think a lot of it is the fact i used to own a go cart, which would do pretty much anything (mini cooper) so the step probably wasnt the best.the mini also had some shithot yokos on it. the iS has some crappy ones aswell.so mistake. live and learn. but its just the learning which i gotta do now. its a very nice, low mileage tight car to drive, so i doubt theres anything wrong with suspension, although it is quite hard and low.... as has been said, 2nd gear out of a roundabout.didnt take much with a shite set of tyres and pissing rain. i thinks il book meself in a half day at the skidpan (castlecoombe), and the odd evening carpark practice. whats everone elses experience been like?
cheers for all the hints and tips, shall take it into consideration next time
ben

oh and put sme good tyres on it

Morat wrote:

fuzzy wrote:id say practicing in a large car park in the wet would be better as the car will slide easier and at slower speed than when dry. will give you a chance to get used to it first. i reckon that when it starts to go slamming on the brakes is the worst thing to do as it upsets the balance causing you to spin out of control.gental easing of allows the car to correct itself.

You're right, don't stamp on the brakes if you start to lose control but when a crash looks inevitable.

agreed on that. if youve passed the point of no return theres nothing to be lost by hammering on the brakes.
i lost control once at about 90ish after the rear wheels hit a wet patch and spun slightly clipping the central reservation sending me into 3 full spins,impacting on the central reservation and the kerb with every turn . even stamping on the brakes that time dodnt help at that speed with me only stopping courtesy of the large lamp post in the middle