which is the better engine???

[Jhonno]

standard figures if the engine is standard surely?

[wayneE30]

sorry what i meant was what could you get out of it from performance mods

[Jhonno]

how longs a piece of string? or how deeps your purse even?

[Lordschleife]

Yeah the s14 is quite heavy, but the weight is further back in the car which is what makes the difference. Theres a lot of weight infront of the front wheels with the m20

[Lordschleife]

I've actually found now i can drive a bit better that with some good springs and shocks the 6 pot can handle very nicely not as agile but for what it lacks in 1mph corner speed it makes up for on the straights!

Yep

It's kinda like a 996 turbo vs GT3 question - the turbo is quicker on the straights, the GT3 in the corners

Both great cars though

[Turbo-Brown]

Depends what you mean by better.

4 cyl engines are inherently sh*t becasue they can't be balanced and have massive holes in the power strokage.

Inline 6 engines on the other hand can be perfectly balanced (it's the smallest balancable configuration) and have overlaping torque pulses so it's prectically impossible to stall them and they generalte prodigious torque from idle

But a car with a 4pot will handle much better...

anyway my vote goes for the s14 and m10

aah, but the question was which is the better engine, not which engine's better suited to the E30

[Demlotcrew]

Yeah the s14 is quite heavy, but the weight is further back in the car which is what makes the difference. Theres a lot of weight infront of the front wheels with the m20

The thing is, the S14 doesnt sit that far back in the engine bay. If you look at how tight the M42 is to the bulk head and then look at the S14 there is a massive gap! Why BMW didnt move the S14 back by about two inches is beyond me.

A

[Lordschleife]

Yeah the s14 is quite heavy, but the weight is further back in the car which is what makes the difference. Theres a lot of weight infront of the front wheels with the m20

The thing is, the S14 doesnt sit that far back in the engine bay. If you look at how tight the M42 is to the bulk head and then look at the S14 there is a massive gap! Why BMW didnt move the S14 back by about two inches is beyond me.

A

They must have had a reason? Maybe something to do with racing homologation?

[M5pilot]

S14 is serioulsy tuneable. You can get a reliable 270bhp out of them but you would be soooo skint in doing so.

M20 can have 220 bhp which is quite a testemant because the 2.8 M52 really has a maximum of 230-240bhp and its got 24valves and doesnt have no where near the amount of bottom end grunt as the M20.

However, if you want serious power from a serious M power engine just fit a E36 Evo engine which will put you into super car territory. And it will cost around the same as the M20 2.7 upgrade with 210+ bhp

[Simon13]

However, if you want serious power from a serious M power engine just fit a E36 Evo engine which will put you into super car territory. And it will cost around the same as the M20 2.7 upgrade with 210+ bhp

And wait for the vanos to go bang and it will, also at Ԛ£1500 for a replacement vanos unit each time it goes means my moneys well and truly on the 3.0 litre lump bulletproof. Plus 3.0 lumps actually make the claimed HP output

[M5pilot]

Forgot to mention the more reliable 3.0 engine! Cheers Si.

[Dan318-is]

3 litre what may i ask

i know jack about e36 lumps if thast what u on about

[Zayyan]

3-litre E36 M3

There was an M3 3-litre with 286bhp and a 3.2 (the Evo) with a supposed 321bhp, though they apparently never make anywhere near this sort of figure.

[Lordschleife]

3 litre what may i ask

i know jack about e36 lumps if thast what u on about

He's talking about the s50 I think its called? not so hot on e36 stuff myself either
The 3 litre makes around 286bhp
The 3.2 is supposed to make 321, though I heard that they rarely do. The vanos goes sometimes on the 3.2 and is a Ԛ£1500 job

[Dan318-is]

vanos is one messy device

is that 3 litre lump out an e36 m3 or m3 evo?

[Lordschleife]

e36 m3 = 3.0
e36 m3 evo = 3.2

Having said that about vanos, my mate has a 3.2 and hasnt had any trouble yet

[Simon13]

it's hit and miss with vanos some are fine some are horror stories of 3 failed units in 3 years with cars out of warranty! Plus the 6 speed box is know to be a bit frail aswell (Ian 332 won't agree with me )

3.0 (i'm sure it is S50) cars use 5 speed box which is a tough old unit and is used in the e46 330 too

Like the e34 M5's too the early engines seem to be able to take alot of rough treatment and be fine, but the later M5 3.8's and Evo's won't stand up to the same treatment. They need to be serviced on the button and have a half mechanically sympathetic owner

[Dan318-is]

ians running a 3.2 litre with a 6 speed int he

wondeer if he has had ne VANOS problems

[Simon13]

he has not! last time i spoke to him he hadn't!

I know of a car Davetourings mate who's car has done 60 odd thousand miles which has had something like 3 vanos units and a replacement engine because of one failure

[Widge]

Am I right in thinking it was the M10 blocks that BMW used in the old F1 cars? Think thiey got about 1500 BHP out of them!!!!!

Also heard that they used to leave them outside to "weather" for a time

The M10 blocks were stored out side the smoking door of the Brabham (Sh1t I think it was Brabham - any one...) F1 team who used the BMW engines and the guys used to pi55 on them, this "accelerated" weathering was to relieve internal stresses that would lead to hot spots with the immense turbo charging.

1500bhp was achieved- and BMW even developed a funny head which had a nam beginning with A (I'll look it up I know where the magazine is) which put the valves in a mini V8 kinda lay out, this was for F2 I think and gave increased Bhp due to increased valve area and using 2 cam shafts. I'll scan the article if anyone is interested.

[Turbo-Brown]

I'd certainly be interested to read it!

Still not convinced by the whole urinating on the blocks story though. To the best of my knowledge, the mechanical properties of iron can not be changed by the weather or any other largely passive liquid other than in changing into iron oxide.

I have read that the blocks used had already covered many miles on the road and that these 'aged' blocks proved themselves to withstand the rigours of 1000bhp/litre life better than new castings. Seems much more plausible to me

[Simon13]

i've read about both, the story i've read was the engineers used to look for cars in scrap yeards with high milege 150k or 200k blocks on them. Then do the weathering trick and then test build an engine from it. Something like that anyway.

I think the pissing thing is a bit of a fish wives tale, did the engineers take it in turn to have a shite down the bores too?

[Zayyan]

I think the pissing thing is a bit of a fish wives tale, did the engineers take it in turn to have a sh*t down the bores too?

That is the funniest thing I've seen all day

[Richy325iTouring]

the only differnce i notice between 6 and 4 pots is in high speed 3rd gear drifting.... which lets face it u dont do everyday...

4 pots are more twitchy also.... 6 pots more stable at speed, but as i said... the neutral balance when in a 4 wheel slide isnt there in an m20 engined car like it would be in something like an m3..... thats all i can say from my limited experience, there is only that one issue!

Karan

then thats why the touring a better bet
extra wieght either end balances it up

[Demlotcrew]

I dont think they made 1500bhp it was more like 1211bhp. They used Blocks which had done 100k+ only as any fractures would have been worked out over the usage of the block. It was left outside because they used so many of them.

A

[Simon13]

Actually, what what what, I dont think they made 1500bhp it was more like 1211.45bhp. They used Blocks which had done 500k+ only as any fractures would have been worked out over the usage of the block. It was left outside by the toilets because they used so many of them.

A

Was that in that manual u bought to Ace cafe last nite?!

[Demlotcrew]

A

[Simon13]

[Dan318-is]

ok skimming through this here is what makes sense to me:

BMW pissed on engine blocks an got 1200horsepower out of an m10 engine

somethin im missin ?

[Zayyan]

Turbo maybe?

[Demlotcrew]

BMW used a 1.5l M10 block, with a rather large turbo and fancy head design. Thats what got them to 1200bhp.

A

[Dan318-is]

jes arse
they really know whatthere doin ey

[ian332isport]

Plus the 6 speed box is know to be a bit frail aswell (Ian 332 won't agree with me )

I will

[ian332isport]

ians running a 3.2 litre with a 6 speed int he

wondeer if he has had ne VANOS problems

Nah, mine's been fine

Vanos get's a bad rap, but is not all that bad in my opinion. Maybe I'll change my mind when I get a Ԛ£1500 bill

Ian.

[Dan318-is]

hahah

dusnt insurance cover it?

does it make a noticable differene when u drive

also i heard it makes some strange noises.

ian im guna b cheeky: n e chance of u taking me for a blast in your beast of a car 2moro ?