E30 325i Sport or E30 M3

[Rich_W]

Ask yourself honestly.

Question 1
What do you plan to do with the car
and
Question 2
what you you expect to change on it.

If you love a visceral driving experience and love to feel as if you are achieving something. Buy the M3 If you want to cruise about listening to music and occasionaly blat it on a motorway buy the 325.

If you want to chuck the engine out and fit a e46 M3 lump with a supercharger buy a 325. If you want to fit a carbon airbox and schrick cams buy the M3

LHD and Dog leg boxes are easy (take few miles to be perfect)
Gen M3 BMW parts are subject to M Tax
Modifying parts are roughly the same though. Exhausts/Cams/Suspension kits
Dealing with the multitude of everyday people that know "something" about E30 M3s is less so easy.

Best advice is to either drive or at least get a ride in both. Come to a show and ask owners. Hampton Court thing is at the end of the month/

[Gortour]

Well said Rich, pretty much what I was saying.

for the handling side of things, you need to spend about a £500 to £1000 on a 325i's suspension and steering for it to drive almost as well as a a decent well maintined standard e30 m3.

what would it cost to put M3 suspension into a Sport / 325i? Wouldn't this give the best of all worlds, but without the high price that goes with exclusivity?

[maxfield]

what would it cost to put M3 suspension into a Sport / 325i? Wouldn't this give the best of all worlds, but without the high price that goes with exclusivity?

Good point.

I'm guessing the M3 will be a bit stiffer due to bonded a bonded windscreen, probably create more downforce too but i can't see it making much difference.

[Kos]

Well said Rich, pretty much what I was saying.

for the handling side of things, you need to spend about a £500 to £1000 on a 325i's suspension and steering for it to drive almost as well as a a decent well maintined standard e30 m3.

what would it cost to put M3 suspension into a Sport / 325i? Wouldn't this give the best of all worlds, but without the high price that goes with exclusivity?

complete second hand M3 suspension is normaly about £500-£700 dependind on the genaral condition of it

i've helped oze30 , i sold him complete front struts for £350, these had koni shocks and eibach springs

for the rears i got him the rear hubs from bmw's they were about £200 then he sourced rear caliper, disks and brackets him self.

then theres fitting it. one important thing is on the fornts, USE the front ARB links and pick up points from the m3 , links go to the strut, not the wishbone like normal e30's and make a difference

the best be would be to invest in a good suspension package ( bilstein sport shocks and eibach springs ) for the sport, thicker ARB's and a quick rack kit and offset wishbone bushes, this set up will be very very good, but the heavier and off set weight of the M20 over the front subframe will be the down side, but only noticed when driving very very hard.

[Simon13]

There's not massive amounts of difference between the two cars in factory form stock on the road apart from the obvious things, amn M3 from the factory has the usual understeer dialled like a 316 has to some extent. It's when the modding begins that the gap gets alot bigger! As the M3 we drive is a different beast to the one that was pounding the race circuts of the late 80's early 90's

You can mod a normal E30 into a fine handling machine, you can mod an M3 into a sublime handling machine, they have an on limit handling finesse which the normal E30 cannot match. Only modification can bring this out though imo

tbh it's 6 of 1 and half a dozen of the other. I think if the truth be known the M3 is the harder car to live with as an all round daily car. Although others on here won't admit it! M also stands for money, look at waterpump prices between to the two cars to see this! Both great cars at the end of the day with their own plus points as said

My advise? they both rust as bad as each other and alot of these cars will have been in accidents due to the type of buyer they attract. Tread carefully as there are alot of mobile sheds about that will love the taste of your wallet. They are either good or bad these days and a bad one will ruin you regardless of which model it is

[Rich_W]

the best be would be to invest in a good suspension package ( bilstein sport shocks and eibach springs ) for the sport, thicker ARB's and a quick rack kit and offset wishbone bushes, this set up will be very very good, but the heavier and off set weight of the M20 over the front subframe will be the down side, but only noticed when driving very very hard.

Going Off topic. Any ideas on where to get the Eibach very low springs? Not "Pro-Kit" (-30mm) but Sport-lines (-60ish)

[Simon13]

understeer is not on the cards on a well setup 325i. Drive my touring Kos

[Kos]

understeer is not on the cards on a well setup 325i. Drive my touring Kos

i have , its crap






only kidding, i like your tourer and its well set up with lots of grunt. enough to hassel a 200 bhp m3

but, and this is a big but it will under steer at 10 tenths, you arveridge drive will not know it,

jumping from a sport to an m3 back to back and the fact an M3 has a quicker rack giving it a turn in will make a sport seem slopy and less direct.

i've never driven a sport with a quick rack but i'm sure it makes a hell of a difference to the feel of the car and fast road driving experience

[Simon13]

the touring took down some impressive machinery last trip to the ring. Don't under estimate what a 325i can do with the right bits, Likewise what an M3 can do.

Ive no doubt the fact it's a touring is helping my case. My next challenge will be getting the saloon Alpina to handle in a similar fashion when it's back on the road. I think the roll bar settings will have a big say in this!

off topic i know!

[Kos]

the touring took down some impressive machinery last trip to the ring. Don't under estimate what a 325i can do with the right bits, Likewise what an M3 can do.

Ive no doubt the fact it's a touring is helping my case. My next challenge will be getting the saloon Alpina to handle in a similar fashion when it's back on the road. I think the roll bar settings will have a big say in this!

off topic i know!

not exactly off topic, its food for thought

even your old sport was a fine hadnling car, as was my IS but you hated the short shift. ARB's settings make a hell of a difference, i though the IS was too tight up front , needed a bit more lean in to the corners for my liking.

[Simon13]

it's all about the inverted bilsteins

[Kos]

it's all about the inverted bilsteins

too right, guess what on the m3, 51mm HD scalfold poles

[ian332isport]

i've never driven a sport with a quick rack but i'm sure it makes a hell of a difference to the feel of the car and fast road driving experience

It makes a monumental difference

[Dan318-is]

it's all about the inverted bilsteins

+1

[Rich_W]

Inverted?

[Dan318-is]

The ones that work upside down compared to every other shock rich; they are called B8 bilsteins i think now (proper name), they are the yellow and blue meaty ones they use in HnR coilovers?

http://www.evo-s.co.uk/shop/index.php?c ... _2305_2306

[M5pilot]

Drive a good modded 325i (H&R ARB's, Billies...usual suspects) and a lightly standard M3 round a track.

I have had both of these cars on track driven after each other sessioned.

Out on the circuit it's not the power advantage of the M3 that makes it go round the track faster but the "grip" and "balance". This is not to be confused with handling.

No matter what you do to a 325i it just will not corner like an M3. It will not sustain speeds like an M3 around long bends. It will not even come close.

As speed builds up the difference on bends gets very very big between these two cars.

This is not just me saying this but alot of people who spent shit loads of money on 325i's in the right area and then went to e30 M3.

The 325i sport is a fun car but it's really not a match for an M3 and the only real downside to the M3 for some people will be LHD and Mr doggy Gearbox. For me personally it was never an issue.

One of the things I really liked about driving my red M3 - guys in the Aston martins, Ferrari's etc will look and appreciate. Cars which are more than likely 10 times the cost of your little M3. It has pose value!

Evo-S

[reggid]

All this non sense about a m3 being miles ahead of the 325i sport is just BS a standard M3 was not much quicker than a standard e30 sport in any department back in the day it is a better car but not by as much as many think probably because few of them run standard setups anymore, but if you want a track car them the m3 is probably the choice and it is a better setup if thats the ultimate goal. An m20 can be made plenty faster than an e30 m3 so that should not be the deciding factor and a standard m20b25 has no torque down low either (unless your comparing it with a m20b20) so this also should not be a deciding factor as a s14b25 actually feels torquier.

[MissG]

M3 all the way. I keep toying with selling the Skyline and getting an M3. It's only the LHD thing that stops me.
Beautiful car and makes a funny tingling sensation in my pants everytime I see one. (sorry far too much information)

Ive had a 325i and have to say other than the skyline it's my favourite car. But the M3 is a dream car. I wish there was somewhere you could hire one for a week just to see how the whole lhd thing works out.

[dimebag_from_hell]

In my opinion a 325i sport looks nicer than an m3.

Although i would love an m3 simply because it was arguably the most succesfull saloon race car of all time!

[maxfield]

All this non sense about a m3 being miles ahead of the 325i sport is just BS a standard M3 was not much quicker than a standard e30 sport in any department back in the day it is a better car but not by as much as many think probably because few of them run standard setups anymore, but if you want a track car them the m3 is probably the choice and it is a better setup if thats the ultimate goal. An m20 can be made plenty faster than an e30 m3 so that should not be the deciding factor and a standard m20b25 has no torque down low either (unless your comparing it with a m20b20) so this also should not be a deciding factor as a s14b25 actually feels torquier.

Take a standard M3 and a modded 325i round a track or b-road and then you will see what Sal is talking about.

Dimebag - It WAS the most successful touring car of all time!

[maxfield]

M3 all the way. I keep toying with selling the Skyline and getting an M3. It's only the LHD thing that stops me.
Beautiful car and makes a funny tingling sensation in my pants everytime I see one. (sorry far too much information)

I don't think LHD is much of a problem TBH, my dad's has never been a problem in the past 9 years and he used to go over dartford bridge every so often.

[MissG]

I guess my biggest obstacle would be parking at work. We have to go through a security barrier with a swipe card. I guess i would just have to reverse in or park in the director's parking space!!

[Kos]

I guess my biggest obstacle would be parking at work. We have to go through a security barrier with a swipe card. I guess i would just have to reverse in or park in the director's parking space!!

you could go in normaly, get out quickly walk round to swipe your card, but then again you wouldn't be able to do that, with your tingling sensation your legs might have turned to jelly and give way

[MissG]

Is there such a place where you can hire E30 M3's??
Would be fab to have one for a week. May struggle to give it back though.

Beautiful, beautiful car.

[Kos]

Is there such a place where you can hire E30 M3's??
Would be fab to have one for a week. May struggle to give it back though.

Beautiful, beautiful car.

there is a car club where you pay an anual subscription and get points which you can use to hire out a varied selection of cars

depending on what car and when ( month and season ) points deduction varies

[Kos]

here you go

http://www.iconicmotorcars.co.uk/s_12.asp

[JungleGus]

as M5pilot was saying there is a difference between balance and handling. i find my 325i handles ok...but jump in a 4cylinder and i start grinning due to the balance of the car..my very close to stock 318i can corner faster (on crapper tyres) than my modded 325 sport...i tested this, same corner, same conditions.

the e30 was designed around a 4cylinder powerplant (the one they used for racing, that one) and you really can tell the difference.

i drove a 325i, 335i (m30) and 318 and the 318 easily is the most fun to drive, sure its pretty slow but it just handles awesomely.

i cant understand all these people saying 325i dont understeer..how slow are you going!

m3 all the way, saying that the 325i is the easier car to live with, but not in the same league IMO. and you can pose in an m3! sports rarely warrant a third look

[Rich_W]

The ones that work upside down compared to every other shock rich; they are called B8 bilsteins i think now (proper name), they are the yellow and blue meaty ones they use in HnR coilovers?

http://www.evo-s.co.uk/shop/index.php?c ... _2305_2306

No B8 for M3 Thanks anyway.

I guess my biggest obstacle would be parking at work. We have to go through a security barrier with a swipe card. I guess i would just have to reverse in or park in the director's parking space!!

Where I used to wok we also had tocuh card barriers. So long as your passenger electric window works and you dont pull up too far from it. I could always just lean over and touch the card on the post. The car isnt significantly wider just because its LHD. I can still sit in the drivers seat and touch the passenger door card with my right hand.

Alternatively I used to just tailgate the car in front through the barrier. The security guys watched me do it every day for 10 months. And never said a word. Ive also seen people use disabled people "grabbers" to deal with multi storeys.

[harry_p]

i just undo my seatbelt and reach / lean over.; i never do do drivethru anyway, but carparks / toll booths etc have never been a problem

[reggid]

All this non sense about a m3 being miles ahead of the 325i sport is just BS a standard M3 was not much quicker than a standard e30 sport in any department back in the day it is a better car but not by as much as many think probably because few of them run standard setups anymore, but if you want a track car them the m3 is probably the choice and it is a better setup if thats the ultimate goal. An m20 can be made plenty faster than an e30 m3 so that should not be the deciding factor and a standard m20b25 has no torque down low either (unless your comparing it with a m20b20) so this also should not be a deciding factor as a s14b25 actually feels torquier.

Take a standard M3 and a modded 325i round a track or b-road and then you will see what Sal is talking about.

Dimebag - It WAS the most successful touring car of all time!

have been in both and standard the m3 is not that much faster outright and this is proven by test results i have seen even though it does feel better to drive..............modern hot hatches would be quicker than 20 year old standard m3's......... and the M3 racers were quite a bit different to the road cars so a bit of a moot point really.

It would be interesting to know what the differences are STOCK for STOCK that make the most difference to the driving impression and performance eg weight and its distribution, spring and damper rates, rollbar settings, chassis stiffness, brake size, wheel and tyre combo's etc etc.

[MissG]

i just undo my seatbelt and reach / lean over.; i never do do drivethru anyway, but carparks / toll booths etc have never been a problem

Can I just remind everyone that im 5'2" reaching over is not an option.
Im sure I would deal with it if I wanted one that badly. Which I do.

I still say M3 with 325is being a very close second. I guess it all boils down to pennies.

Let us know what you decide!

[M3Tony]

In weekend newspapers, review of new M3 beast (414 bhp) ... and conclusion, the E30 M3 was still their 1st choice.

Balance & cornering for me are greatest advantage over my previous (well sorted) Sport.

Downside: costs are higher; even greater nervousness about where she is parked...

[Gortour]

No-one is saying M3s aren't worth it, or no good, the question still, in my mind anyway, is CAN YOU JUSTIFY IT?

As a weekend toy, if money is not a serious issue, go M3
If money is tighter, or you need the car every day why not just get a Sport?

Also depends whether you drive hard enough to find the difference in the handling... at 30mph to and from work, or on the school run, who cares? Round a track, or driven very hard, the differences will undoubtedly show.

I don't drive that gently, but I don't think I have the b*lls or the ability to drive hard enough to worry which car I had...

[Falkster]

I did once reverse into a car park at xmas due to the fact that I was shopping for wifeys pressie so couldnt really take her with me!!

Now that I would like to have seen

I did get some funny looks!! F**k 'em