318iS V 325i Sport

[Splondike]

Lol. I think most of us have bought our respective cars for a reason, and there are obviously benefits to each engine.

for the weight difference thing, to be fair its not jsut the engine, the 318is are lighter full stop by almost 100kgs. plus the engine sits very far back in the engine bay, further than the S14, compared to the m20 which puts way more weight past the front sus. turrets. I also have a handful of articles from back in the day that call the 318is the 'baby m3' - it was the motoring press and BMW marketing who played that game, although sure lots of owners have taken it up.

Fair play mate, so where has the other 80 Kg gone on an iS then ?

BMW marketing were only trying to flog them as well

[tim_s]

haha yeah true...
most IS cars are poverty spec compared to the 325i. they have less toys, smaller diff, lighter box and zaust etc.

yeah undoubtedly thats true about the baby m3 thing, but to put it to rest:

a 318iS is NOTHING like an M3! drive both then u will see like i said 16v is where the similarities end.

as well as both being 16v, they're both chain driven, the m42 has adjustable cam sprockets which the basic m3 doesnt, in the case of the evo sport (and only the evo sport) they both have oil cooled pistons, they both have forged rods and crank etc., the m42 actually has a better fuel injection system (coilpack etc) too. the m42 is actually engineered to a high standard - its hardly a cheap engine. in fact in racing the S42 replaced the S14 in 2l form, mainly cos its a smaller lighter engine with a better suited bore to make a square 2l engine, but of course the m4x was also the replacement for the m10 so it was progress.
so there is some racing heritage with the m42, although of course the S42 was vastly different from the road engine. in terms of the road car the 318is is the closest you'll get to an m3 out of the available UK models. sure the engine is a lot less powerful, but they are both buzzy four pots, and 318is had all the suspension bits (thicker ARBs, 51mm struts despite the 4 pot engine, mtec springs yadda yadda) as well as a lighter engine than not only the m20 but the s14, so they handle nicely too.
the 318is also was only a coupe, had the sporty seats, ///M steering wheel and knob etc, shadowline and the lip and looked sporty etc and was designed to be marketed against the GTI yuppy crowd, hence 'baby m3'. quite straightforward really. no-one's saying its actually an m3, but baby m3 is quite apt imo.

[Richy325iTouring]

M20 has cooling issues, if used hard.

i can vouch for that
nothing an electric fan cant help sort

[Pal318is]

haha yeah true...
most IS cars are poverty spec compared to the 325i. they have less toys, smaller diff, lighter box and zaust etc.

yeah undoubtedly thats true about the baby m3 thing, but to put it to rest:

a 318iS is NOTHING like an M3! drive both then u will see like i said 16v is where the similarities end.

as well as both being 16v, they're both chain driven, the m42 has adjustable cam sprockets which the basic m3 doesnt, in the case of the evo sport (and only the evo sport) they both have oil cooled pistons, they both have forged rods and crank etc., the m42 actually has a better fuel injection system (coilpack etc) too. the m42 is actually engineered to a high standard - its hardly a cheap engine. in fact in racing the S42 replaced the S14 in 2l form, mainly cos its a smaller lighter engine with a better suited bore to make a square 2l engine, but of course the m4x was also the replacement for the m10 so it was progress.
so there is some racing heritage with the m42, although of course the S42 was vastly different from the road engine. in terms of the road car the 318is is the closest you'll get to an m3 out of the available UK models. sure the engine is a lot less powerful, but they are both buzzy four pots, and 318is had all the suspension bits (thicker ARBs, 51mm struts despite the 4 pot engine, mtec springs yadda yadda) as well as a lighter engine than not only the m20 but the s14, so they handle nicely too.
the 318is also was only a coupe, had the sporty seats, ///M steering wheel and knob etc, shadowline and the lip and looked sporty etc and was designed to be marketed against the GTI yuppy crowd, hence 'baby m3'. quite straightforward really. no-one's saying its actually an m3, but baby m3 is quite apt imo.

Said like a Pro

Pal

[Simon13]

BMW is classier though, and looks nicer (a Sport anyway!)

I can see the argument from boths sides unlike some. Pointing no fingers. *ahem* most of you lot *ahem*

who me?

[Davenotouring]

Not necessarily...!

I can see you being a snobby Beemer driver in future, ticking the indicator delete option from factory!

(Love ya really)

[Gwynleym10]

Think it is important to remember that these cars are over 15 years old. From all the rolling roads on the zone the only standard 325i that made standard power was Karans touring. Is's seam to make claimed power more often, didn't kos's make slightly more than standard power when it just had a k&n/?


It also should be noted that the diff between a good IS and a bad one is hudge! My current IS feels like it has a turbo charger in comparison to another IS i recentlyhd. i'm sure this must be true with 325i's

[Splondike]

Martin's tech1 made over standard power at the rolling road day too..

I reckon a poverty spec tech1 sport with keep fit windows will only be 20 kg heaver than a superlite 318is.... Plus the bodykit makes it cut through the air better anyway allegedly

[Simon13]

no really the kits do......wind tunnel made u see

[Splondike]

no really the kits do......wind tunnel made u see

Yeah thats what I thought...

Not sure about the 100kg or the engine positioning....

Anyway here are some engine pics, looks like the M3 and Is are in pretty much the same position to me... and the M20 is set furthest back ironically....although more definitely in front of the turrets too due to the length...




[/img]

Hard to tell coz not all exactly the same angle... I'll bring my tape measure to the pod

[Simon13]

S14 and M20 are very close in wieght also

Is engine is 15-20kgs heavier than an M40 so i've read

[tim_s]

ok here we go, just from short engine weight - remember four pots have lighter exhaust manifolds etc too, but according to ETK short engine weights:
M42 - 102kgs
S14 110kgs
M20 120kgs

as for engine position etc, OK maybe I made too much of that! a couple of things though. S14 block is physically quite a bit (good few inches) longer than an m42 block for a start, so if the m42 sits equally far back in the bay it will hang over the front less. also from the comparison pic given, if you are going to look at the distance between the plastic cable covering and brake servo to engine on the S14 and M42, the M42 is a little further back. I realised this through my comparisons when playing with an S14 plenum to fit the m42 - it won't go but hits the brake servo etc as the engine is fuirther back in the bay (not due to angle or anything else, no matter how many clever plates made up it wopudl always hit the brake servo whereas the S14 clears it). If you look at the inlet runners on cyl 4 on the S14 and m42 in the pics above you'll see what i mean. I actually measured the distances from bulkhead to engine on an S14 and on an M42 when doing this too and thats when i noticed the M42 was a bit further back. there's not a lot in it admittedly though.
M20 does look like it sits further back than the pair, sadly its 20kgs heavier and overhangs the sus turrets by a good bit more.
cool comparison pics though, i like that!

[schuey]

Might as well get an is and save a load of cash,not much pace difference,and a nice sport is going to be Ԛ£3k anyway. For that money you would be better off buying a cossie if you just want a fast rwd car!
(will I get banned for that? )

[Splondike]

ok here we go, just from short engine weight - remember four pots have lighter exhaust manifolds etc too, but according to ETK short engine weights:
M42 - 102kgs
S14 110kgs
M20 120kgs

as for engine position etc, OK maybe I made too much of that! a couple of things though. S14 block is physically quite a bit (good few inches) longer than an m42 block for a start, so if the m42 sits equally far back in the bay it will hang over the front less. also from the comparison pic given, if you are going to look at the distance between the plastic cable covering and brake servo to engine on the S14 and M42, the M42 is a little further back. I realised this through my comparisons when playing with an S14 plenum to fit the m42 - it won't go but hits the brake servo etc as the engine is fuirther back in the bay (not due to angle or anything else, no matter how many clever plates made up it wopudl always hit the brake servo whereas the S14 clears it). If you look at the inlet runners on cyl 4 on the S14 and m42 in the pics above you'll see what i mean. I actually measured the distances from bulkhead to engine on an S14 and on an M42 when doing this too and thats when i noticed the M42 was a bit further back. there's not a lot in it admittedly though.
M20 does look like it sits further back than the pair, sadly its 20kgs heavier and overhangs the sus turrets by a good bit more.
cool comparison pics though, i like that!

Cheers Tim, nice to have a constructive discussion for a change... and learn something too

Are you coming to the pod ? Your car sounds interesting ?

Might as well get an is and save a load of cash,not much pace difference,and a nice sport is going to be Ԛ£3k anyway. For that money you would be better off buying a cossie if you just want a fast rwd car!
(will I get banned for that? )

We were discussing the merits of two BMWs, not a Dagenham dustbin with decent running gear

[Simon]

the 318is also was only a coupe,

Said like a Pro

Pal

Except for the coupe bit!!

E30 is not a coupe! It's a 2 door saloon.

[Demlotcrew]

Cheers Tim, nice to have a constructive discussion for a change... and learn something too

I have both Engines in the garage and two cars with the engines fitted. If you need anymore info i can help.

I have also experienced both engines in the same car with the same suspension/tyres/ARBs etc and the car handles much better with the S14 than with the M42.

Andrew

[Pal318is]

the 318is also was only a coupe,

Said like a Pro

Pal

Except for the coupe bit!!

E30 is not a coupe! It's a 2 door saloon.

I noticed that too, but forgot all about it

My service book say's saloon.

Pal

[Splondike]

Cheers Tim, nice to have a constructive discussion for a change... and learn something too

I have both Engines in the garage and two cars with the engines fitted. If you need anymore info i can help.

I have also experienced both engines in the same car with the same suspension/tyres/ARBs etc and the car handles much better with the S14 than with the M42.

Andrew

May bend yor ear sometime Andrew

A piccy of your engine bay would be interesting, presumably your S14 is in the M42 position unless the mounts are different ?

[tim_s]

Cheers Tim, nice to have a constructive discussion for a change... and learn something too

Are you coming to the pod ? Your car sounds interesting ?

Would like to, but i may have plans next week, depends if I can wriggle my way out of spending it with the missus...

the 318is also was only a coupe,

Said like a Pro

Pal

Except for the coupe bit!!

E30 is not a coupe! It's a 2 door saloon.

lol yeah i thought that when i wrote it, 2 dr saloon would've sounded gay, coupe's easier and, well, it is a coupe, pretty much.
been hanging around e36s too long... surprised no-one mentioned the lip spoiler thing either tbh if we're gonna be picky - thought about that too when i wrote it.

I have also experienced both engines in the same car with the same suspension/tyres/ARBs etc and the car handles much better with the S14 than with the M42.

Andrew

why do you think that is then? checked the cyl head weights and the S14 is heavier by a bit, so its not weight distribution, and the S14 is a bigger engine too.

[Simon13]

with more power!

[Dan318-is]

with more power!

yes but how woulld this affect handling?!

[Splondike]

with more power!

yes but how woulld this affect handling?!

Yep if anything it should be worse right ? somewhere between the M42 and the M20

[pacerpete]

M42 deviants, for future reference, Celit is much better than radweld !

[Andyboy]

a 318iS is NOTHING like an M3! drive both then u will see like i said 16v is where the similarities end.

Yup, that's about it. The M3 is still quite a fast car whereas a 318iS is brisk and the 325i a bit more so - but nothing a Focus TDI couldn't hang on to. Also the handling and braking and general 'feel' of the M3 is totally different.

Hey, there's a 'baby M5' on ebay for Ԛ£200. It's a 520i - well, it's got four doors and a 24v engine...........

[320Touring]

Hey, there's a 'baby M5' on ebay for Ԛ£200. It's a 520i - well, it's got four doors and a 24v engine...........

rolfmayo

qualiteeeee

[tim_s]

LOL, you love 4 pots really, i can tell

[satty]

What does evry1 think of my 318iS? does it look decent, in terms of paint and originality??

[Pal318is]

What does evry1 think of my 318iS? does it look decent, in terms of paint and originality??

Same as my brother's bud...very nice indeed, the paint look's cool from the pic...try and get a few more up, if you can...have a proper nose then...!
Got a set of tech 1 side skirts already painted in sterling silver if your interested

Pal

[stuartgallafant]

im pleased with my iS so far. i cant wait to get my new engine thoguh once its been rebuilt, coz it will definately perform a lot better!

i've driven plenty of 6 cylindedr E30's and a fair few iS's too, and i much prefer the way the iS's handle. however, the power delivery in the 6's are better.

they are different cars. and as said before, it depends what YOU like, not the opinion of others...

[Andyboy]

You've the nail on the head there - the iS and 325i are just so completely different to drive - horses for courses. Th M42 is a lovely little motor though - get some cams and TB's in there and it would sound heroic.

[stuartgallafant]

andy, you must of read my keyboard mind!!!

[Demlotcrew]

May bend yor ear sometime Andrew

A piccy of your engine bay would be interesting, presumably your S14 is in the M42 position unless the mounts are different ?

Everything is M3 specific even the fuel pump!

The front and rear cross members are even different, so i am using all M3 parts inc arms and engine mounts.

The S14 has much better balance, the engine sits at a steep angle ensuring all the weight is lower than it would be if the engine was up right. The S14 gearbox also sits so much further back in the tunnel that the gearbox mounts have been moved to the centre of the box not at the rear like the stock E30â┚¬Ã¢”ž¢s have. The Cooling system is also lighter as most of the weight is behind the turrets. As a whole the S14 running gear weighs much more than the M42, but itâ┚¬Ã¢”ž¢s the way its distributed around the car.
I cant explain the difference, but for me I found the turn in and change of direction of the car to be much better with the S14.

Donâ┚¬Ã¢”ž¢t get me wrong the M42/S42 are not bad engines but they will never be to S14 spec they are not designed to be a race engine. (Even the S42)

Andrew

[tomtomiS]

the iS has more in common with m3 than u think, most of the suspension components ei the anti roll bars etc are thicker than 325i sport im pretty sure, i read a website by an irish guy who wrote an exhaustive guide to the iS. correct me if im wrong. my iS has 175k on the clock and the only problem i had was the diff gave up the ghost but that was my fault as i put the spare wheel on which had the wrong profile ( 205 60 15 instead of 205 55 15)
i will try to find the website in question so u guys could read and see what i mean

[tim_s]

May bend yor ear sometime Andrew

A piccy of your engine bay would be interesting, presumably your S14 is in the M42 position unless the mounts are different ?

Everything is M3 specific even the fuel pump!

The front and rear cross members are even different, so i am using all M3 parts inc arms and engine mounts.

The S14 has much better balance, the engine sits at a steep angle ensuring all the weight is lower than it would be if the engine was up right. The S14 gearbox also sits so much further back in the tunnel that the gearbox mounts have been moved to the centre of the box not at the rear like the stock E30â┚¬Ã¢”ž¢s have. The Cooling system is also lighter as most of the weight is behind the turrets. As a whole the S14 running gear weighs much more than the M42, but itâ┚¬Ã¢”ž¢s the way its distributed around the car.
I cant explain the difference, but for me I found the turn in and change of direction of the car to be much better with the S14.

Donâ┚¬Ã¢”ž¢t get me wrong the M42/S42 are not bad engines but they will never be to S14 spec they are not designed to be a race engine. (Even the S42)

Andrew

lol not convinced.
so a bigger heavier engine which overhangs the turrets further, has more weight near the top of the engine, and has a heavier box etc can has 'much' better balance than a lighter smaller engine?

angle is possibly slightly different, difficult to tell from pics i have, but the m3 needs that so the bonnet will shut nicely. regardless the m3's cyl head at the front still sits pretty high, i checked on an evo 2 when i was doing all the measuring etc for the plenum, there wasn't that much bonnet clearance to plenum/cyl head. the s14's a taller engine so despite any angle difference it prob doesnt make much odds.

the S14 gearbox is heavier and bigger than the IS one, both bolt to the engine at more or less the same point. how does it sit further back?

cyl head is heavier on the s14 so more weight high up.
expansion tank up front really doesnt make any odds. its small, m3 has a bigger rad and oil cooler up there too which will easily mitigate that weight difference!
to be fair either way the cooling system will make next to no odds.
i just can't see it making much difference either way, I really can't see this much better balance argument - i'd have thought both handled pretty similarly.

as for the not designed to be a race engine for an S42, can't be arsed to argue that. Surely you've looked into the S42 and if you had I'd see no reason for you to say such things. the S42 was lighter and more powerful than the S14 and replaced it, so really seems a bit of a dumb argument.

[tomtomiS]

hey peeps check out this site: http://www.esatclear.ie/~bpurcell/index.html
this guy wrote a really good guide that is well worthy of a read. maybe this will clear up some pub arguments? happy reading