318is normal lairyness.

[gnarkillius]

My new steed, a 318is seems very loose (to use an American term). Entry to roundabout at about 25mph in second, I will have the car almost straight before I can properly power out. This is in the rain btw.

Its had new rear beam bushes, the E46 cab top mount bushes, and dropped 40mm all round on Eibach pro springs and Boge turbo shocks. Sitting on BBS 14.

I dont hear any knocks or have any swaying that I notice, all very smooth despite the drop. Tyres not too bad (inner edge advisory on last MOT about a month ago), Ill be gettng new ones ASAP anyway.

The other thing to mention is the rear wheels have a fair bit of toe out, not extreme, but noticeable,so maybe its due to this? I thought the toe was probably a result of the 40mm drop. (I didnt do it, and return to OEM or max 20mm stance will be done once Ive driven it a while and uncovered any nasties).

Im loving it and everything, great fun, if a bit tiring, constantly wary of gunning it too much round roundabouts and low gear bends. Im hoping its a good sign, the engine seems to have a lot of torque left after 20 years of god knows what.

Are they meant to be a bit lairy like that? Or is there possibly an issue going on here? Like I said, I havent heard any knocks or any structural/mechanical movement, but I will mention I pushed on the drivers side rear wing, laterally and HARD (back against the wing push with legs against a wall xD), to see if I could make it knock, and it was on a slight slope (driveway)and there was a slight sound, and the handbrake disengaged a bit and it rolled back ever so slightly.

Could have anything to do with it?

Or am I just unused to it, no LSD btw, its just my 318i seemed much grippier. If you guys tell me it sounds like normal iS behaviour, fine, the only thing I really hope it ISNT, is that the rear beam bushes have been poorly fitted, but tbh I havent had symptoms associated with this.

Thanks for any input.

[Jhonno]

What tyres have you got fitted and how old?

E30's don't get lairy due to lowering 40mm..

[gnarkillius]

Tyres Nankang toursport 611. Crap tyres, but look in good condition, no age cracks in the wall and good amount of tread. Not sure on actual age, I only just got it.

Could be down to just very cheap tyres you think? Ill get some decent ones on there before the weeks out, was the plan anyway, and see how it goes.

The car handles bends fine at speed, sweeping motorway curves, a-roads. Its all the low speed, low gear ones,. Its not vague in any way. Brakes nicely in a straight line, very steady predictable body roll, just a bit like a roller skate on the low speed ones.

I didnt think the issue was due to the drop, I thought the slight toe out of the rear wheels was due to the drop, and that it was the TOE that might be responsible, perhaps to do with tyre footprint or soemthing, but all suggestions welcome.

I could just be a noob, its my first sporty E30

[Jhonno]

Wank tyres is your problem..

Have you had it geo'd to say it is toe-ing out on the arse?

[gnarkillius]

By 'geo'd' I take it you mean actually had the set up checked, by laser or whatever?

The answer is no. I only bought it on Sunday.



This is the best shot of the toe I have atm. Im only going by mk1 eyebal on the matter at the moment.

[gnarkillius]

Having had dinner and thought/chatted about it., maybe its just because Ive been driving a modern car, a 2010 Civic Si the last year.

This as 17 wheels, brand new hi spec low prof tyres, active diff (front ofc) abs, stability and traction control.

Its possible, hooning this about has given me bad habits regarding throttle control, since the car takes care of all that, if any traction is lost.

Thank as well, Jhonno, any extra oversteer is probably down to the made in Taiwan tyres too. Im thinking they might have too much air in them too, the fellow I bought it off had just filled them before I went to look at it. Im going to go and see what presure they are at in a bit.

Any more input is still appreciated though, Im not entirely sure Ive got to the bottom of the matter.

[Morat]

If you're sure about the rear beam bushes then an alignment would be my first step. Followed by some decent budget tyres. Be aware that you'll scrub the rears on the inside even at 40mm drop. Lowering an E30 gives negative camber at the rear.
Tidy looking car!

[harry_p]

rears on an e30 should never be toe out, they toe in as standard and as the suspension compresses (or if it's lowered) the offset of the mounting points mean both camber and toe in increase.

any toe out at the rear will certainly make it pretty lairy!

worn inner edges won't help either as as mentioned above, as the car squats under acceleration it'll gain negative camber which will put more load through the (worn) inner edges.

get some decent tyres on the back, and get the tracking checked so you know exactly what you're starting with.

[pnd]

alignment first and tyres but in my opinion BMW's need uprated ARB's or at least new links and poly bushes.

[Dezzy]

Tyres are the problem!

I'd also have the rear tracking checked.

Dont fit budget tyres if you can help it

[gnarkillius]

Thanks Morat.

Ill get the alignment checked at the Tyre place then, when I get some new rubber on. This was always the plan, due to the advisory, wear on the inner edge like you say.

While Im sure the Beam bushes have been done, (I have the reciept for the work) I cant say anything about the quality of the work. I did ask him how it had been done, did the garage use the hydraulic press to push them out and replace them and it seems it was done the 'hard way'.

And it is pretty tidy, rust free in many of the usual places, a home done repair on the wing thats only noticeable on inspection,and any bits under the arches have been treated. Im not going to lift the soundproofing in the bay though. Id rather be blissfully unaware, but no obvious signs of anything major, adn Ive been under it, checking guibo and diff rubber bits.

Ill probably do a few pics for the 'member E30s' section soon, so people can slay my turd!

Despite it wanting a new clutch, and this handling issue (which it may or may not have lol) Im really enjoying the M42, It has to be said.

[320iAN]

i have to drive my iS in a totaly different way in the wet, ive owned a few E30's & did notice my iS can be sideway's very easy in the wet without trying! i got my car with 17" wheels fitted with very cheap tyres, i changed to a better brand but still a budget make.. made no difference!
i now run on 15" alloy's with rather expensive tyres and it can still try catch you out!

i think it's just all down to the diff on our car's, 1st gear is a waste of time on a standard iS .. i sometimes use a higher gear in the wet tha when in the dry ie: never bellow 3rd on roundabout's & keep it in 5th when i'd drop to fourth.. some car's the driver control's.. an iS in the wet controls the driver
funny thing is, i drove my iS right through last winter & not once did the car get stuck or go out of control unless i wanted it to

[gnarkillius]

Ah I replied, before I saw th answers. Thanks a lot to ALL!

I wont be going totally budget on tyres dont worry. i normally take the Falken offerings, but if anyones got any suggestions, Ill take them gladly.

Ill deffo get the tracking looked at when the tyres go on.

Its also far too low for me. I dont like the look on the 14s, and although the ride is lovely, I dont want to be driving so gingerly trying to save my iS splitter. I wont mind OEM standard (probs not the costly Mtech springs though). 10 or 20mm maximum drop on this for me.

The springs have been on it less than a year, so will I be able to flog them?

Also I read that it is the physical act of dropping the car 40mm that gives the toe out effect. Im not happy with it either, and would rather have close to factory set up to be honest.

Thanks Zoners, Ill be following your advice as ever.

[gnarkillius]

I found this guy, whiel looking for articles about iS handling, he describes pretty much my experience perfectly.-

Driver feedback and turn-in requires constant attention making the car tiring over time.
2nd and 3rd gear punch can have you over the speed limit without you realising. The car is difficult to drive slow under 40mph.
In the wet, the car can oversteer easily. Even driving respectably in town can give the driver big surprises if a rear wheel breaks traction (on paint, manholes, tar, cobbles...). Although easy to catch, the unexpecting or inexperienced driver could get into difficulties. A LSD should be standard.
Lift off oversteer is potentially dangerous if not considered when driving.
The balance of the car is such that it need conscientous consideration - it cannot be hacked around like other cars.

http://www.esatclear.ie/~bpurcell/318isdriving.html


Anyway, tracking and new rubber cant hurt can it.

[toby]

Forgive me if I question you on something gnarkillius but what do you understand by 'toe in' in relation to the rear wheels?

I think you are saying toe in when you mean negative camber, which is created by lowering the car.

'Toe in' would mean the wheels are angled sideways, like when you walked pigeon toed, with the toes in.

The rear wheels will have some negative camber which means that the top of the wheel sits inside the arch a little bit and the wheels splay out at the ground - that's negative camber.



15" wheels and decent tyres will make a big difference. Your current tyres on 14" wheels are what? 195... with 15" wheels you can have 205/55 tyres, so much more contact with the road.

[gnarkillius]

Toby, yes, I mean Neg camber then. Just slight, and yes Im on the stock 14 bbs wheels.

Im on the lookout for some 15 bbs right now, as I dont want to put some nice tyres on wheels I have no intention of keeping.

Saying that, they might still toe a bit, Ill see and ressurrect the thread if anything shows up in the alignment/tracking test when I get it done.

Thanks for clearing that up for me mate, appreciated!

[Alex]

Ah the famous nankang ditchfinder

[mrb27]

so i understand, trailing arm bushes play a big part in this, there are adjustable bushes out there which will help massively! the correct rear wheel alighnment will make a big differance to handeling! going down that raod will make the trip worth while

excuse the spelling.. seems more than a few scotch's proves havoc with my spelling..my excuse anyways

[gnarkillius]

Ah the famous nankang ditchfinder

Lol, really? They are that renowned?

Love it.

Thats actually good to hear for me, it really does feel like lack of grip, rather than a mechanical failure. Like I say, I only just got it. Only probelm is, a car was nevermore in need of 15 bbs wheels, and Im hesitant to put good rubber on the 14s, while wait for a couple of more important issues to be found/dealt with.

Mind you, I have 2 sets of 5 14 inch BBS up for grabs, 1 with a set of decent tyres, one with the gash set but all with a few k miles left on them, reckon I could get the dosh for some 15s (At about 200 without tyres sound right for the 15s?) by selling the 14s?

Cant be far off, theres a set with tyres (15s off a sport) in the parts section now, for 250 iirc.

[gnarkillius]

so i understand, trailing arm bushes play a big part in this, there are adjustable bushes out there which will help massively! the correct rear wheel alighnment will make a big differance to handeling! going down that raod will make the trip worth while

excuse the spelling.. seems more than a few scotch's proves havoc with my spelling..my excuse anyways

Cheers, first of all I will be getting aligned, just to see what these 40mm drop springs have done.

Mind you, Im thinking now to give the 15s with good tyres a go, keep the drop, just to see how it handles then. Seems a shame to bin the springs, since they are pretty new.

Since ill be getting the 15s anyway....

[max_crox]

Not too sure whether to post up as its my old car... but...

I'm not sure if the alignment was done when the springs and top mounts were fitted but I hope it was, but it would explain the tyre wear.

As for the back end grip... its 100% the tyres.. they are not the best (read crap) when it comes to grip and they were going to be the next replacement. They were new on when I got the car last year so I was waiting for them to wear out before replacing them. To be honest I had got use to the lack of grip especially in the wet, in the dry its actually not 'too' bad. My inital plan was if I was keeping it was to get some winter's for the 14's and some 15's with some Kumho KU31's on as I've had them on all my BM's and I've found them to be really good and not expensive.

[gnarkillius]

Cheers mate.

Yeah Ill be getting the 15s on there before I get any decent tyres for sure. To be honest its dryer today, and not seeing the same step outs on the oily roundabouts

You gotta laugh at the Nankang Ditchfinder description though : D

Like I said, I think I was just being a bit picky, regarding this characteristic. remember my last 318i was a shagged out LUX!

Thanks for posting with the info mate, Im loving the car, it really is a hoot. Its just my personal taste that its a bit low, but Im going to wait to see how it looks (and handles) on the 15s before swapping the springs out as well. Still a really good ride on your setup, its purely my OEM deviance that makes me want to get it jacked up a bit. 40mm all round seems to be a pretty well understood mod, so we will have to see.

Im pretty sure its tracking straight, but it doesnt do any harm or cost much for them to have a look while its in for tyres in a week or 2. Im just waiting for some local 15 BBS's to come up.

Black grille coming off this afternoon. Must.Have.OEM.Look. Ive already done the bumper strip. I might swap the white indicators, but tbh I like them! I think they might suit the original chrome grille too. Once again, we shall see.

Then Ill get up some pics of it in its new home, for the owners section.

Ill deffo give the Kumho a look.


Did you pick up the 330?

[e30-EVN]

With a 318 engine it is most definatley the tyres are shite, not enough poke in a 4 pot to make it larey in second gear ect...... Even on a 40mm drop an e30 will suffer from negative camber. Mine has it also!

But a harder wearing (less grippy) set of tyres will make her quite loose out back.

[Andyboy]

Nankang

Problem pinpointed.

[bmw9818]

yeah defo nankangs ! i had a set on all fours , in the wet going round a rabout, its like iceskating, no grip at all, lets just say i survived with only a bent rim, snapped arm, and damaged wing!

now running michelins up front dunlop sport sp3000 on the rears, loads of grip!

[daimlerman]

Bit of negative camber is good,as the car corners it will force the wheel upright to obtain full contact....given a decent quality tyre....toe in/out at the rear is bad news,means that something is bent,beam or trailing arms....

[Morat]

Another vote for Kumho here. I have a set of Ecsta SP on my E30, and the back of the E46 - for a cheap tyre they do very well.

As for springs etc, there's abolutely nothing wrong with dropping an E30 by 30-40mm. What springs are on the car? A decent set like HnR or Eibach will make it taut and predictable without being crashy. There are other makes but those two are very well regarded.

Some 15" wheels and decent tyres with a 35mm drop (and preferably matching rollbars and a set of bilsteins) are a very sweet combo.

[B15NAC]

yea my is was crap wth hankook tyres on! all over the road then i got some toyo proxes an they are superb great in all weathers tons of grip

[pacerpete]

It will take some tyre to rein in the gristle of the gnarly M42 donk ! How about a 325 conversion to tame the beast ?

[gnarkillius]

Springs are Eibach pro.

Ride is sweet surprisingly for me, lowered cars Ive been in feel horrid. Not the case here. Springs are with Boge Turbo shocks, with all new top mounts all round. A lot of work has been done on the suspension of this car by previous owner. I am slightly wary of all road protruberences though, iS splitter is barely 3 or 4 inches off the deck!

I think Ill take the advice fellows and keep the 40mm drop, it was a bit of a kneejerk reaction, although I do like the stock ride height, I am aware that on the original Mtech setup it was droppped about 15mm from the normal 318i (round about that?) so its not as huge I first thought I suppose (Ill still make my decision after getting the decent rubber on though). The owner before me (max crox who posted, hi mate!) does some racing I think, and I thought it was some extreme racing setup lol. Ive never followed any of the threads regarding mods or lowering so I had no idea the 40mm is perfectly reasonable.

The wheels look a little bit lost in the arches though, its crying out for 15 bbs! Max_Crox did talk to me about this to be honest, when I viewed the car. He had the same 15 inch intention as me.

Ill give those Kumho tyres a shot for sure, thanks for the tip.

Been out and about running errands all day in much dryer, but still a bit greasy, conditions and its totally fine. Last few days have been torrential, and also ater a long period without rain, so it seems it was pretty much the worst conditions possible for a combination of a sporty twincam, rear wheel drive, a not entirely prepared driver and gash tyres.

Im not gingerly picking my way round bends and roundabouts like I was the other day anyway lol.

Thanks all, Ill ressurect the thread, or make one in the owners section once Ive re-shod it.

(Oh and PS-The car is NOT suffering from a Toe issue. I skimmed the car setup guide I was reading too quickly, it was the CAMBER that I was concerned about, but further reading, and your advice tells me its more a positive feature for handling, but will increase tyre wear-sorry about that, my bad. Its NOT Pigeon toed )

[gnarkillius]

It will take some tyre to rein in the gristle of the gnarly M42 donk ! How about a 325 conversion to tame the beast ?

That is definately an option in the future. Well, not a conversion, but eventually rocking a six pot E30. I didnt have the loot this time round for a goodun. Tried a few offers of 3k for 4.5 k cars but noone was biting. : (

Working my way up to it man!

(moving from shagged M40 to a still decent M42 is gnarly enough for me atm )

[Morat]

This car has Eibach Pro-kit springs and 15" BBS with 205/55 tyres.

[Andyboy]

Prokit springs give a superb ride, and the Boge shocks are ideal - the Bilsteins can be a bit to firm. All you need are some decent tyres - think about winter rubber such as the Continental because they really grip well when it's wet.

[Morat]

b8s for real men!

[harry_p]

toe in/out at the rear is bad news,means that something is bent,beam or trailing arms....

All e30s have toe in at the rear as it helps with stability. Think of the 'toe in' snowplough stance they teach when you learn to ski.

Both toe in and negative camber increase proportionally the lower the rear suspension, which is why people make adjustable rear beams, so you can have a car thats lower and still has correct geometry. Or, so you can set the rear closer to straight if you accept it's going to be more lively