Engine swappers beware

[daimlerman]

Now most regular zoner's will be aware that my current project is a neon green cabbie.The poor thing came to me with a girl's M40,

Of course,that had to go in favour of a proper man's M20,


My first application to DVLA was posted on the 24th of October last year...
DVLA(bless )told me that manufaturers did not build engines of exactly 1990cc(!)..and I would have to provide proof of the engine size and fuel type.
Now to digress for a moment..
My 2.7 was built by myself from a 325 block that I bought s/h from a zoner,with crank,rods and pistons bought via ebay from a lad in Leeds,with the cylinder head from a 320iSE that I owned but with an inlet manifold and bits also bought s/h!
So I had a problem with 'engine manufacturer'....
I sent them a photocopy of the V5c from my 320iSE that gave them an engine number,a capacity(1990cc!)and a fuel type.
This was not good enough,even though it came from their own records that also showed that the car in question had been scrapped,they insisted on a letter from the engine manufacturer showing etc etc.
BMW customer service helped as far as they good by confirming,on headed notepaper,that the scrapped 320iSE was indeed fitted with a 1990cc engine,but for 'security reasons' were unable to confirm the engine number.
I finally received a corrected V5c yesterday,I apparently now own a '318iA' with a 1990cc engine,think I will quit whilst I am ahead!
I will,of course,inform the insurers of the correct engine size
Sometimes wonder why I bother modifying cars for a hobby,think I will take up knitting

[DanThe]

This is why you shouldnt get the DVLA involved, unless you like paper work and fcking about in general?

[magpie]

knit one curl one.

hassle i had with converting a mk111 scort van into a mk1v with rst conversion was a mare.

even the traffic cops wanted to steal it from me. i took ;pics of the whole build back in 95.

i had a good old rant at the spactard copper who thought it was a ringer,my main defence was where the washer bottle was housed and he was not happy the mug.

it was raining also.

i drove off

[Speedtouch]

Should be fun and games for me trying to get my 2-litre Fiat twin-cam 1965 Minor on the road then

[beemerbird]

knit one curl one.

Handicrafts on the loo, Mick?

[daimlerman]

This is why you shouldnt get the DVLA involved, unless you like paper work and fcking about in general?

My main issue,Dan,was the swap from 4 cylinder to 6,it's just a bit obvious!
Hence my considering the exact engine size a hassle too far.Afterall,from the outside it is very difficult to tell.

[magpie]

Should be fun and games for me trying to get my 2-litre Fiat twin-cam 1965 Minor on the road then

mirrafiori cant spell it it's been that long since i've seen the badge.

never owned one but they were in my wanted tray a while ago.

[DanThe]

I cant find any mention of it being the law that you must inform the DVLA of an engine change or modification, until I do I wont be telling them anything

[andrew320i]

I was going to send my log book off with my new engine number as ive gone from a 2.0 to a 2.5. Probably not worth it then, you think I should bother telling the insurance company?

[BadDave]

I was going to send my log book off with my new engine number as ive gone from a 2.0 to a 2.5. Probably not worth it then, you think I should bother telling the insurance company?

Ask yourself this

Do i want to find out i'm not insured if I hit anyone/anything, or if anyone hit's me??

If it's not declared and your found out, the insurance is void.Meaning your liable for all repair costs to your motor and anything else involved,personal injury etc etc
Plus there's the court appearance for driving an uninsured car as well.

[shedrool83]

I cant find any mention of it being the law that you must inform the DVLA of an engine change or modification, until I do I wont be telling them anything

Think i'll do the same when the m30 go's in.
I'll inform the insurance of the change but if i dont need to inform the dvla i wont bother.

[TPS]

Slighty off topic, I bought a cabby., without a V5, went into the post office, filled out the V62 document, sent it off along with £25. The new logbook came back a week later, minus the last keepers details on it, I was very surprised how easy it was to register a car in your name, must be a car thieves paradise!

[Dezzy]

So if I get a producer and am in the local station insurance is all declaired with all mods and agreed value, then they look at my v5 with 318 on it. This by law is fine and they cant do anything?

[DanThe]

I was going to send my log book off with my new engine number as ive gone from a 2.0 to a 2.5. Probably not worth it then, you think I should bother telling the insurance company?

Ask yourself this

Do i want to find out i'm not insured if I hit anyone/anything, or if anyone hit's me??

If it's not declared and your found out, the insurance is void.Meaning your liable for all repair costs to your motor and anything else involved,personal injury etc etc
Plus there's the court appearance for driving an uninsured car as well.

I believe the insurance company would also take you to court, you would be better off with no insurance at all. Remember insurance companies are total scum and will use any excuse available to avoid paying out

[StuBeeDoo]

Malcolm.
With the benefit of hindsight, would you say it would be better for anyone doing a swap - or contemplating one - to keep the V5 for the donor car and submit it with the new details for the V5 of the recipient?

.... And surely the "engine manufacturer" is still BMW. They made all the bits and you just assembled them.

[StuBeeDoo]

So if I get a producer and am in the local station insurance is all declaired with all mods and agreed value, then they look at my v5 with 318 on it. This by law is fine and they cant do anything?

As long as the cc of the engine is correct on the V5. The car is still a 318, you can't change that - it's what BMW called it and you can't change the model name on your V5.
As an example, Fordies put Mondeo 2.0 Zetecs into 1.6 Escorts. The car is still an Escort, but it's got a Mondeo engine. The V5 will still say Escort, but the cc would change.
My 320i touring has a 525e engine, but it's not a 525e touring, nor is it a 327i touring - there have never been such things. So it's a 320i touring with a cc of 2693.

[dickster]

So if I get a producer and am in the local station insurance is all declaired with all mods and agreed value, then they look at my v5 with 318 on it. This by law is fine and they cant do anything?

As long as the cc of the engine is correct on the V5. The car is still a 318, you can't change that - it's what BMW called it and you can't change the model name on your V5.
As an example, Fordies put Mondeo 2.0 Zetecs into 1.6 Escorts. The car is still an Escort, but it's got a Mondeo engine. The V5 will still say Escort, but the cc would change.
My 320i touring has a 525e engine, but it's not a 525e touring, nor is it a 327i touring - there's never been such a thing. So it's a 320i touring with a cc of 2693.

Exactly, its still a 318i but with a 2.0 engine as your log book states. The chassis number is for a 318i but as long as the cubic capacity is right then its all good.

[swindler]

Don't get me going on the DVLA

I bought a simple 323i in Northern Ireland that was on an English reg plate (when you import to NI they don't bother creating a new Irish plate). Brought it back to England without realising that you have to re register it from scratch. Fine. Sent it all in. Lost. Everything-MoT, NI V5, NI tax disc.
Go to local office, am almost arrested when they say that there's nothing that can be done.
Make application from scratch only to be investigated for creating a ringer- the plate came up as a Peugeot 205?!?! Turns out they had cancelled it, then when some guy swapped his personal plate they reallocated this random number
Had to trailer it at my expense for an inspection. Left outside, scratched and generally f*cked about with by an idiot who didn't know the first thing to look for. All this time I have no car, and by now the tax (which I had no record of) had expired.
After four months and I can't tell you how much shit (0870 numbers, retelling the story to a new f*ckwit every time, letters), I get a new logbook with the car a year younger with a totally made up leasing company as the only previous owner. Completely f*cks the history but I called it quits.

Two months later get a fine for not having sorned it for the time it was in the VOSA compound. Seriously.

Moral of the story- even if you are sending recorded delivery (I did) photocopy what you send. Sounds a bit ghey but might just save your sanity.

[oze30]

Glad I didn't get the 340 changed!!!

[magpie]

Slighty off topic, I bought a cabby., without a V5, went into the post office, filled out the V62 document, sent it off along with £25. The new logbook came back a week later, minus the last keepers details on it, I was very surprised how easy it was to register a car in your name, must be a car thieves paradise!

not with a bmw. you'd have to chop the scuttle out and replace it.


a mad french firm made a car with the chassis number on a bolt on part

[Dezzy]

I am not asking the model to be changed. As I am fitting a custom built 3.0lt M50 motor with no proof of origonal car or now engine cc.
As dan say's if I don't need the log book changing then all the mods will be listed to insurance company and as the road tax bracket is the same if it's a 1.8 or a 3lt then I can see the issue?

[magpie]

red tape.it's a joke.designed to cause headaches.

[daimlerman]

Malcolm.
With the benefit of hindsight, would you say it would be better for anyone doing a swap - or contemplating one - to keep the V5 for the donor car and submit it with the new details for the V5 of the recipient?

.... And surely the "engine manufacturer" is still BMW. They made all the bits and you just assembled them.

I 'thought' that this would be the 'easy' way for the DVLA to recognise the engine....but no,that was far too easy.They STILL insisted on either a letter from BMW or a letter 'from the garage that fitted the engine'....in a previous letter I had carefully explained that I had done the work myself...
First letter went off on 24 Oct 09,V5c eventualy issued on 4 Feb 10,I make that about 15 weeks,each reply from them took at least 6 weeks,what are we paying these people to do with themselves all day?

[schnaarf]

Jesus Christ I may just leave mine with its original m20b25 and put my hope of ever putting v8 in it on hold for a couple of years!

[DanThe]

I wouldnt send logbooks through the post for cars I want to keep, take them to a DVLA local office and you can have a sit down while they change stuff round. I recently got a fine for not renewing sorn on a car I scrapped, the logbook was sent off, but apparently, if you dont get an acknowledgment back about the vehicle you are still liable for not informing them!
From now on everything I post them will either be going recorded delivery or I will get a postage cert from the post office

[snakebrain]

Don't get me going on the DVLA

I bought a simple 323i in Northern Ireland that was on an English reg plate (when you import to NI they don't bother creating a new Irish plate). Brought it back to England without realising that you have to re register it from scratch.

No mate! Northern Ireland's in the UK. You didn't need to re-register it at all. You can drive an NI car in England and vice-versa without any probs at all.

A Southern registered car, as in registered in the Republic of Ireland - that's a diferent country and you will have to re-register it. Not from NI though...

[Rav335uk]

I've only informed my insurance on the M30 change, and haven't bothered to send in the log book for a change.
Don't think I will either.

[swindler]

You do need to re register it, I promise. The DVLA covers Great Britain, DVLNI covers NI.
The V5s are a separate document and can't be changed to a mainland address.
You can spot the tax disc has a hand print on it. Again, you have to get GB VED, and (try) and get your money back on the NI one.

Lastly (as of last year anyway) the MoTs aren't on the police computer so it's as easy just to get a new one to avoid getting pulled.


http://www.dft.gov.uk/pgr/roads/vehicle ... 559?page=3

See para 2.3:

http://www.dft.gov.uk/pgr/roads/vehicle ... 559?page=2

[Dezzy]

That's easy I work in the garage that did the conversion. I am doing it. I will right a letter and go to my local office. Can't make it that hard can they?

[JohnnyBlazE]

Moral of the story, from what I've read, is there's no point informing the DVLA if, for example, I owned a 318is which had an M20 2.5 swapped in. Is this the correct conclusion most people seem to have?

In any case, it all seems like more hassle than it's worth.

[Brianmoooore]

Can't make it that hard can they?

Oh, the sweet innocence of youth!

[Dezzy]

Ha ha thanks brian. It was said in sarcasm but I am hoping that there can't be too much red tape.
I will insure it as a 2.5 24v as I don't think they will strip the motor to find S50 pistons and M52 crank?

[nickso]

am i the only one wondering if i had a crash in a converted car and the insurance was notified but the DVLA wasnt, would the insurance possibly use this to get out of a claim?

i'm almost sure if you phoned your insurance right now and asked them they would say the DVLA have to be informed.

i made them aware of the m30 conversion i had but im not going to bother with the m52.

[daimlerman]

I cant find any mention of it being the law that you must inform the DVLA of an engine change or modification, until I do I wont be telling them anything

DVLA booklet INS160 page 4 and 5 refers.
And also claims 'if you do not tell us about any change,you could be persecuted'...
Dezzy,get your miniskirt in the office to type you up a suitable letter!

[Dezzy]

That will me my mam then.

Shouldn't be a problem if I have a letter explaining the swap, the origonal log book and the engine number of the new motor?