Yes I was sad enough to read the budget in full...

[georob]

You lot moan way too much. In Poland we hit the 40% income tax bracket by August (anything over 15k per annum), the National Insurance payments are another 200quid a MONTH on top of that, and our doctors only get a grand a month in wages. The country has one motorway, which costs seven quid to use, and fuel has just got to the pound a litre mark, even though the wages over here are half what they are in England.

All in all, we pour far more money into the system and get ****-all back, compared to what the UK population gets in return for its taxes.

And we pay for kids in Poland

Oh really? Have you set up a direct debit then?

Well do they not get child benefit paid to them from Uk Government for kids over there??

And no, i have not personally set up a D/D, so that would answer your idiotic question.

[stevotheevo]

the way this country operates is absolutly rediculous, we let anyone in who wants to come, when then pay them for their efforts, give them a house and then a job.

we are no longer Great Britain, we are simply England.

4 years untill i move to Canada, cant f**cking wait.

[casper8r]

Well they get child benefit paid to them for kids over there do they not?

And no, i have not personally set up a D/D, so that would answer your idiotic question.

Oh, that's right, I forgot - all them immigrants are here to rob you of your benefits money, just like in that BBC documentary.

I pay my taxes here which keeps your Vicky Pollards and tracksuit-wearing primitive life forms on the dole. I fail to see how we're a burden on your system as long as we don't break the law and pay our taxes.

Don't tar everyone with the same brush.

[hubble]

how many different ways can they find to tax us? they wont be happy until all our wages are paid into the governments accounts and they give us back just enough to buy enough bread and water to keep us alive.

Agreed ^^

[georob]

Well they get child benefit paid to them for kids over there do they not?

And no, i have not personally set up a D/D, so that would answer your idiotic question.

Oh, that's right, I forgot - all them immigrants are here to rob you of your benefits money, just like in that BBC documentary.

I pay my taxes here which keeps your Vicky Pollards and tracksuit-wearing primitive life forms on the dole. I fail to see how we're a burden on your system as long as we don't break the law and pay our taxes.

Don't tar everyone with the same brush.

I have no problems with the Government paying for Polish or whatever nationality kids that are in the UK alongwith their respective parents, but when the kids have not stepped foot ever onto UK land, then that is the point where it annoys me.

I pay my taxes too, and it annoys me that the druggies and alcholics seem to get more benefit that a struggling single parent, where is the logic in that also.

Understand where i'm coming from slightly better now?

And nope, still no brush to tar in my hand.

[casper8r]

I pay my taxes too, and it annoys me that the druggies and alcholics seem to get more benefit that a struggling single parent, where is the logic in that also.

Understand where i'm coming from slightly better now?

And nope, still no brush to tar in my hand.

I do - I didn't mean to throw my toys out of the pram here, it's just that hearing the Daily Mail nonsense gets a bit tiresome after a while. I don't condone any tw@ts getting child benefits for their kids who aren't actually here!

You want to appreciate the irony of the whole benefits system? I have a friend who just returned from having spent two years in Sweden and he is disgusted with what the society has become there (trust me - your benefits system is nowhere near as inclusive as theirs). The whole country has become lazy and many youth's just can't be bothered to study or to aspire to work anywhere but at checkouts!

The irony is that the benefits system was created by hard working people with amazing work ethics who set it up for genuinely disadvantaged. Unfortunately it's severly lacking in sufficient control mechanisms and now is being abused by lazy cheaters. Charity has mutated into spineless free-for-all.

What happened to "he who does not work shall not eat?". When will the government realize that benefits need to be controlled?

[tomtomtom]

Well they get child benefit paid to them for kids over there do they not?

And no, i have not personally set up a D/D, so that would answer your idiotic question.

Oh, that's right, I forgot - all them immigrants are here to rob you of your benefits money, just like in that BBC documentary.

I pay my taxes here which keeps your Vicky Pollards and tracksuit-wearing primitive life forms on the dole. I fail to see how we're a burden on your system as long as we don't break the law and pay our taxes.

Don't tar everyone with the same brush.

are you polish then? i dont think poles are a burden on our system, we have a polish guy working for us and he's wicked, not only that but all of a sudden other blokes have stopped coming to work pissed, stopped having time off whenever they feel because they know that we'd have a workforce of poles over a workforce of unreliable pissheads anyday. people are keen to blame immigrants but its not them that are the problem, i do think there are issues with immigration because our stupid government havent got a clue whats going on on their own turf but people who say immigration is ruining our culture and that british white culture is being forgotten but whats so f*ckin great about british culture nowadays? its sad for sure, but the issues lie a lot deeper than people coming from overseas to find work.

[georob]

I do - I didn't mean to throw my toys out of the pram here

Thats fair play, i wasn't sniping at the Poles in general, was just something that someone had been speaking about at work this morning, he is Polish also as yourself i presume.

I never thought i'd leave the UK but the idea of living somewhere is becoming more and more appealing everyday.

[casper8r]

Technically I'm Latvian which is classed as Northern or Eastern Europe depending on who you ask.

As for immigration - of course it does create problems, but the Daily Mail viewpoint is crap because all it achieves is deeper rift between communities.

Back on the topic - as many people have said the whole "green" issue is just a camouflage for two reasons - 1)government needs money and they get it from taxes, no matter how you call them and 2)being "green" is "in" at the moment = more brownie points. Who cares what the scientists say about global warmin, let's listen to our PR specialists, after all getting re-elected is the real goal here.

Now that we've all blown steam it's not actually all that bad. You can't avoid death and taxes.

[HarvyS]

I think The whole of the E30 Zone should become a political party! Lets run for a parliamentary majority! We'd do a hell of a better job than the toilet paper government we have at the moment! Vive la E30 Zone!

[Simon13]

You lot moan way too much. In Poland we hit the 40% income tax bracket by August (anything over 15k per annum), the National Insurance payments are another 200quid a MONTH on top of that, and our doctors only get a grand a month in wages. The country has one motorway, which costs seven quid to use, and fuel has just got to the pound a litre mark, even though the wages over here are half what they are in England.

All in all, we pour far more money into the system and get ****-all back, compared to what the UK population gets in return for its taxes.

I'm sorry but the polish are leaving your country in droves. And it effects my income by the fact the polish etc work for less money and keep the wages down. Now the cost of living has gone up in the past 3 years but my wages have been the same for the past 3 years. In fact the firm i work for have dropped the money by £4 a day.

Running a car has increased by 50% in the last 10 years which is a bloody joke. I don't see where my tax money goes, the useless c**ts at surrey empty my bins and thats it. If i want to recylce which i do i have to do it myself. Council tax is a joke also.

[Gwynleym10]

I just find it odd that my 1989 4 litre land cruiser (which is going to be parked about 1/2 mile away from congestion charge) is cheaper to tax than a 2001 mondeo!

[gra325i]

If i want to recylce which i do i have to do it myself. Council tax is a joke also.

Dont even get me started on council tax.. i live on a private estate..we pay the lord of said estate £25 a month for our water and sewerage..there are no buses,streetlighting or any other sort of civic ammenity for a 6 mile radious
and the lazy B****** bin men dont bother to empty our bins if the lid is even 1mm open (even when the wind blows it open) and the council roads round here have umpteen huge potholes in them just waiting to jump out and "eat" one of my wheels
but still the government demands that i pay them £980 a year!!! for what?!!

then as soon as i get in the car to go to work im paying another 4 taxes..then i have a meal guess what..taxed again..

Rant over..for now

[spook]

Anyone one who takes any notice of what the daily mail might say is a twat, or can i add my favourite expression,
a fucking retard

[Tom-Tom]

Is it just me, or can anyone else see the resemblance?

Phew, for a moment there I though my sense of humour had failed.

One thing that's on my mind, is when will the governments facade finally be acknowledged, and torn down (hopefully)? One thing that seems to have been swept under the carpet, is the fact that the public didn't actually vote for Gordon Brown to be Prime Minister. He just took the reigns and kept on cracking the whip.

Even with all the crap aspects of modern Britain, it's still got a lot going for it. Democracy just isn't part of it, that's all.....

[tomtomtom]

what has it got going for it? thats not me starting an argument or anythin, just want someone cheer me up!

[Tom-Tom]

what has it got going for it? thats not me starting an argument or anythin, just want someone cheer me up!

That might help for a start. Dunno if you like Ash/rock in general.

As for other reasons, well, it's home. As a nation, we're envied and loathed in equal quantities. We've got rich and varied history, including motorsport.

We're not physically joined by land to Europe, which has proved useful once or twice. Speaking of war, our armed forces are second to none, despite Gordon Browns best efforts to wear them down.

There's breathtaking landscape, only a few hours drive from anywhere, at the most.

Proper British food too! You won't get that anywhere else.

Has any of that helped at all?

[tomtomtom]

yeah they were all good things apart from the pictures of cruella de vil!

http://www.wavecrest.org.uk/wavecrest/Q ... age023.jpg

[Tom-Tom]

yeah they were all good things apart from the pictures of cruella de vil!

http://www.wavecrest.org.uk/wavecrest/Q ... age023.jpg

Aw well.

I'll find someone younger next time.

[tomtomtom]

ok cool thanks

[Grrrmachine]

One thing that seems to have been swept under the carpet, is the fact that the public didn't actually vote for Gordon Brown to be Prime Minister. He just took the reigns and kept on cracking the whip.

That's not been swept under the carpet at all. The public didn't vote for Tony Blair, John Major or Margaret Thatcher either, because that's not the way the political system in the United Kingdom works.

Gordo WAS voted in by the majority of his constituency, and he was also voted head of the party by the Labour MPs as a whole, who as a group were oted in as a nation to make decisions on the publics behalf. In that sense, it was as democratic as possible in a country with a monarch anyway. Gordo isn't a President (even if you think he acts like one)

[Grrrmachine]

I'm sorry but the polish are leaving your country in droves. And it effects my income by the fact the polish etc work for less money and keep the wages down. Now the cost of living has gone up in the past 3 years but my wages have been the same for the past 3 years. In fact the firm i work for have dropped the money by £4 a day.

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/business/7282923.stm

Will that link cheer you up? ;)

I emigrated four years ago because the pay situation for graduates was ridiculous, the future was bleak and whatever money I pumped into pensions would be a piss in the sea compared to what was needed. Voila, the Poles come in, stimulate the economy doing all the stuff the local dross didnt want, paid lots of lovely tax into the Gubbmints pocket, and now they're all flocking home again to buy flats and have kids. By 2012 (when we've got the Euro football cup) England will be left with some unfinished plumbing and the faint whiff of pierogi, and the strongest economy in Europe.

[Tom-Tom]

One thing that seems to have been swept under the carpet, is the fact that the public didn't actually vote for Gordon Brown to be Prime Minister. He just took the reigns and kept on cracking the whip.

That's not been swept under the carpet at all. The public didn't vote for Tony Blair, John Major or Margaret Thatcher either, because that's not the way the political system in the United Kingdom works.

Gordo WAS voted in by the majority of his constituency, and he was also voted head of the party by the Labour MPs as a whole, who as a group were oted in as a nation to make decisions on the publics behalf. In that sense, it was as democratic as possible in a country with a monarch anyway. Gordo isn't a President (even if you think he acts like one)

I see your point, but out of those 4 Prime Ministers, Brown is the only one to have come to power without a general election being held.

[e30m3s50b32]

One thing that seems to have been swept under the carpet, is the fact that the public didn't actually vote for Gordon Brown to be Prime Minister. He just took the reigns and kept on cracking the whip.

That's not been swept under the carpet at all. The public didn't vote for Tony Blair, John Major or Margaret Thatcher either, because that's not the way the political system in the United Kingdom works.

Gordo WAS voted in by the majority of his constituency, and he was also voted head of the party by the Labour MPs as a whole, who as a group were oted in as a nation to make decisions on the publics behalf. In that sense, it was as democratic as possible in a country with a monarch anyway. Gordo isn't a President (even if you think he acts like one)

I see your point, but out of those 4 Prime Ministers, Brown is the only one to have come to power without a general election being held.

Major walked into power with no election victory, but he won one later down the line.

If labour get in again, i will emmigrate. Unless you are an ecomomic migrant, assylum seeker/refugee, drug abuser, or just lazy and dont work this counrty has nothing much to offer at this moment in time or the near future.
In regards to economic migrants ( mainly polish), yes they work, yes they pay tax but the "clear income" they earn does not stay in the country and is re invested into poland, thats why they now have a growing economy.
The bigest concern for me, is the fact that it is VERY difficult for todays generation to get on to the property ladder, even with a combined income it is hard for young couples to make that step with ever increasing house prices especialy with in the south east. The government solution to help is by inviting large constuction/development companies build lots of poorly built flats and housing estates in so called developments including shops and facilities in many towns but it happens to usualy be in run down areas which are a breeding ground for trouble, but as i said they are poorly built and a percentage of the flats goes to the local "housing association" better know as council, who then move scum ( jobless and refugees ) into them and then eventaully the area will be pool of shite, and they are not going up in value. Didnt labour do the same in the 60's with the lovely concrete tower blocks.........
Any way they try and help you buy one with part buy options, but in reality its a worthless investment

[murran]

well we can all p1ss and moan about being taxed for every breath we take. but untill we all stand up and say together "right you t0ssers weve had enough of this sh1t!" then theyll just keep knibbling away at what money we do get!

all this taxing and cost of living wouldnt be so bad if peoples wages actually went up aswell!

IM SICK OF PAYING TAXES, ITS MY MONEY YOUR TAKING AND YOUR WASTING IT! I NEED IT TO BUY FOOD ETC. I CANT EAT A BLOCK PAVED PAVEMENT IN MY CITY CENTER OR A SPEED HUMP ON MY ROAD CAN I??!!!


rant over.

[Gwynleym10]

Having actually done this tax calculator thing here; http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/uk_politics/7290230.stm
I'm apparently going to be £191.69 better off each year...

Anyway back to cars, yes we pay a lot for petrol but at least the car tax for older cars is not stupid. In plenty of place around the world (Japan, parts of Italy, Etc etc) cars older than 10 years are taxed soo much it is impossible to have them as a daily driver!

E30's look like they are not going to be stupid (it could have been a lot worse) in terms of tax and I think we all should work out exaclty how much we spend on fuel a year - I recon 10 000 miles probably costs around £3000+ in fuel Perhaps we should be thinking out the box, and spending more money on stuff like M/S (that can be set up for more power + economy) - it could end up paying for itself.

[richie_zone]

Mate its swings and roundabouts, they arn't the robbing barstard you make them out to be! What do you think they spend the money on? it doesn't line their pockets! l the money they get in goes on services for the public, argue that you arn't getting your share of the services but you can't argue they are robbing bastards. The idea of the budget is to re distribute the wealth of the nation to the nation to keep vital and social services running for our benefit.

Mate, I almost choked reading this.

The money surely does NOT go back into services in line with what we pay.

Let's get one thing straight - I am happy to pay more taxes and contribute to leveling the wealth and bettering our system bla bla bla.
But! The fact is the I have not seen the improvements rise in line with the constant raiding of motorists in the UK.

Roads in London and the UK are amongst the worst I've seen and I've lived and travelled extensively in Europe, far East and North & South America.
Public Transport sucks.
NHS is perhaps better but poor compared to to other leading EU nations.
Education is average but burdening students with crazy debt is a timebomb. Often, the extra salary a graduate can demand is outweighed by the debt and interest owed. At LEAST make the debt interest free FFS!

Yes we pay less tax than France, Germany, Netherlands and Scandinavia.

But they have immaculate transport systems, proper education pathways and health care that is truly amazing - witnessed first hand!

My other main point is that Britain is a road based economy. A LOT of commerce and industry relies on our roads.
But they are woefully neglected. Presently, as a Londoner motorist I pay:

1) Road Tax
2) Parking Permit
3) Insurance
4) MOT
5) Inflated Fuel
6) Fines - left right and centre! This is a blatant tax as there's almost no way to avoid these things right now.

All x2 for my 2 cars - which I accept is an indulgence as I am a petrol head.

I commend your effort to stem the usual anti-government tirades. It's too easy to just moan.

They are robbing bastards when we do not see the returns! If I was an investor in 'Government PLC' I would have pulled my options a long time ago...

One more thing. We do moan too much. The French strike if they don't like something, the Italians Riot, The Americans bring it down with some biased and hyped documentary, The Dutch & Germans will blatantly change political allegiances.

But us - we MIGHT write a letter to our MP but more than likely we'll moan on the elevator...

[Cotty]

Mate its swings and roundabouts, they arn't the robbing barstard you make them out to be!

What do you think they spend the money on? it doesn't line their pockets! Any more or an less than it did in years gone by anyway, all these scandals of sons of MP's earning £50k and not doing any work arn't any more frequent now, just better reported since MP's never used to have to declare their spending publically.

The PM earns in the region of 70k, your average doctor, MD, Solicitor or accountant earn the same or more, but the PM's money is fixed regardless of what he does.

All the money they get in goes on services for the public, argue that you arn't getting your share of the services but you can't argue they are robbing bastards.

The idea of the budget is to re distribute the wealth of the nation to the nation to keep vital and social services running for our benefit.

Didn't you see the "John Lewis List" that they are allowed to claim from.
The "John Lewis" list is used by Commons clerks to check maximum prices deemed reasonable for items like TVs. This is what MPs can claim on their additional costs allowance.

This is the money they get for having to occupy a second home, either in London or in their constituencies. They are reimbursed not just for rental or mortgage interest costs on their second home but also a general household expenditure, including items of furniture.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/blogs/newsnight/2008/02/nothi...

Breakdown of what they can claim
http://www.parliament.uk/documents/upload/HofCClai...

Robbing gits

[casper8r]

Yes we pay less tax than France, Germany, Netherlands and Scandinavia.

But they have immaculate transport systems, proper education pathways and health care that is truly amazing - witnessed first hand!

You don't exactly have to be Sherlock Holmes to see there might be some connection between the two paragraphs? Or do you think their transport system is soo good because it's being maintained for free?

[richie_zone]

Yes we pay less tax than France, Germany, Netherlands and Scandinavia.

But they have immaculate transport systems, proper education pathways and health care that is truly amazing - witnessed first hand!

You don't exactly have to be Sherlock Holmes to see there might be some connection between the two paragraphs? Or do you think their transport system is soo good because it's being maintained for free?

That's my point - that it's okay to pay more tax if you actually see the results, not just argue for less taxes and bitch about services at the same time.

I also omitted that they don't pay the range of stealth taxes we do and
that perhaps we would pay more taxes if there were evidence of the effects. Still gotta wait 4 hours in A&E for anything that's not life threatening.

[casper8r]

UK has got so much money it's unbelieveable - trouble is the way it's being managed you could pour it in the country by truckloads and still get the MP's spend it on John Lewis kitchens, form administration and personal assistants.

A small example - people from new EU states have to be registered for Workers Registration Scheme which basically means sending off your passport to some stupid office with a bunch of highly paid bureaucrats to register your name, passport data and address. Now, I'm not the sharpest tool in the box but what's preventing the government from scrapping the whole office and taking this whole data (including face-to-face interview) that is already given to them via National Insurance number interview? You can't work without NI number anyway and you can circumwent WRS if you want to. I think the answer is piss-poor management and oh, of course - £75 fee you have to pay when registering for WRS. Hello people, it's 21st century, they have these things called com-pu-ters and da-ta-ba-ses, why not use these?

[DaveD]

Having actually done this tax calculator thing here; http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/uk_politics/7290230.stm
we spend on fuel a year - I recon 10 000 miles probably costs around £3000+ in fuel Perhaps we should be thinking out the box, and spending more money on stuff like M/S (that can be set up for more power + economy) - it could end up paying for itself.

that 16.7 to the gallon...you must have a heavy right foot


It would cost your employer approx £192 to pay you enough cash to buy an article at £100+vat...the £92 is made up of VAT+ TAX +NI

[e30m3s50b32]

UK has got so much money it's unbelieveable

Has it ??

As it stands the government keeps borrowing because it has nothing left in the bank. It has invested 3.3 billion in Afghanistan and Iraq to achive NOTHING. It should concentrate and invest on our own domestic concerns and problems before investing in a false war that will bennefit no one in the UK, it has just bailed out Northen Rock by borrowing billions. Why should we the tax payer bail out people who have invested in a company that has got it wrong, the government has departments to keep an eye on large investment companies so the fact it was going down shit street should have been spotted before it happened.

No one minds paying tax if there a benefits, but i cant see any constuctive use of my taxes

NHS, failing
Education, failing
Road and Public Transport, failing
Inflation on the increase, in real terms it is over 7% not the 2.5% the government says it is

you work and earn you get taxed, you save you get taxed, you spend you get taxed, you die you get taxed

We are all reaching deeper into our pockets when there is less going in there.

[DaveD]

The investment in Northern Rock is not too bad ...at least we are getting a decent rate of return from the investment..not like the billions we lost when gordon sold the gold ($250/oz..then $1000 now)

[e30m3s50b32]

The investment in Northern Rock is not too bad ...at least we are getting a decent rate of return from the investment..not like the billions we lost when gordon sold the gold ($250/oz..then $1000 now)

I agree about the gold, thats one investment the government should have hold on to, but in regards to Northen Rock, any money made will just bail out the govenrments escalating debts, which have been run up by wasting the money, i can not be bothered to say where and what because it just winds me up, but for sure it has not invested in public services. The taxpayer will see nothing from bailing out NR.